Isaac, Theo, Jacobs

[Online Persona]

My argument is that no singular path is a guarantee.

I don't think any of our kids are leaving without a degree. If they are, I agree that's a mistake unless they are going 1st or 2nd round.

What are the degrees in? What can they do with them? Not all degrees are equal.

Everything you say is 100% about getting our experienced players back in hopes we can win titles next year. The whole "improve their draft stock" and "getting a master's" is just window dressing. It sounds great. I want Jacobs, Johnson, and Issac back. They would be key contributors towards a Big 10 title run.

It's just that I don't believe that returning guarantees that they improve their draft stock. What if it doesn't? Stay again to improve it for another year? Leave and be called Ellis Brooks?

And I'll throw this out there: Isn't Olu making a mistake for his potential future earnings? Wouldn't leaving and being a 1st rd pick maximize his earnings? One extra year of contract millions?

Apparently, his family wants him to get his degree. I respect that. It also tells me they don't need him going pro to get out of poverty as well.

Why aren't you pushing for him to turn pro and maximize his earnings?

1) See my response to the Ohio St commandofan, everything I say is not about getting our experienced players back. Everyone can read my post above where I enumerated many reasons to leave early and many reasons to return. You simply aren't being honest if you try to mischaracterize my words as 100% only return. Let's at least agree to discuss the topic honestly.

2) Leaving early or returning isn't going to magically make kids choose better degrees. You are conflating a completely independent and unrelated decision with the NFL draft decision that we are discussing.

3) Olu could have left early and it would have been a great decision to maximize his earnings potential. But his family prioritized his education and that's fine if that's their decision. It is not without risk. Same with Porter who is leaving to maximize his earnings potential. It was a reasonable decision for both.

 

[lazydave841]

Leaving early or returning isn't going to magically make kids choose better degrees. You are conflating a completely independent and unrelated decision with the decision that we are discussing.

Then quit bringing up degrees as if it matters in this conversation. You can't use it as a crutch then wish to disqualify it as relevant criteria because kids might not choose a better degree.

But his family prioritized his education and that's fine if that's their decision.

Maybe the other kids family prioritize the decision that each kid makes?

Your "maximize potential" comment doesn't correlate with Olu's decision being reasonable. He's missing a year of 1st rd money for a degree that he could pay for later with his millions earned.

 

[LandoComando]

Your "maximize potential" comment doesn't correlate with Olu's decision being reasonable. He's missing a year of 1st rd money for a degree that he could pay for later with his millions earned.

This Olu's losing a ton of money by returning that he can't ever recover but apparently that's okay in this scenario because it fits the agenda.

 

[Online Persona]

Then quit bringing up degrees as if it matters in this conversation. You can't use it as a crutch then wish to disqualify it as relevant criteria because kids might not choose a better degree.



Maybe the other kids family prioritize the decision that each kid makes?

Your "maximize potential" comment doesn't correlate with Olu's decision being reasonable. He's missing a year of 1st rd money for a degree that he could pay for later with his millions earned.

Dave, you have to start reading. I did not post a single thing about degrees until responding directly to your points on degrees. YOU brought degrees up, not me.

 

[lazydave841]

This Olu's losing a ton of money by returning that he can't ever recover but apparently that's okay in this scenario because it fits the agenda.

I'm all for Olu returning because I'm a Penn State fan and I think our chances vs Michigan and OSU go up with him on the field.

I have no reasonable interest in how much money he makes or when he gets it. I know that him getting drafted 1st round doesn't sway top 50 players to us exactly because show me the top 50 LB and WR prospects from Micah and Jahan.

I also know that if the discussion is "maximizing earning potential", you don't tell a 1st rd pick to return to college.

 

[Online Persona]

Ohio St commandofan, it's OK because it's Olu's decision. I clearly stated that he should have left early if he wanted to maximize his earnings potential and not take additional risk. You aren't being honest. I also stated that Porter should leave early. It only bothers you that Olu us returning because you root for Ohio St.

 

[lazydave841]

Dave, you have to start reading. I did not post a single thing about degrees until responding directly to your points on degrees. YOU brought degrees up, not me.

I brought it up.

You replied about it.

I countered.

You then want to back off it.

Accurate enough for ya?

 

[Online Persona]

I'm all for Olu returning because I'm a Penn State fan and I think our chances vs Michigan and OSU go up with him on the field.

I have no reasonable interest in how much money he makes or when he gets it. I know that him getting drafted 1st round doesn't sway top 50 players to us exactly because show me the top 50 LB and WR prospects from Micah and Jahan.

I also know that if the discussion is "maximizing earning potential", you don't tell a 1st rd pick to return to college.

Dave, who in this thread told a 1st round pick to return to college? You either can't read or are completely dishonest and the more things you that completely mischaracterize, the more I lean to the latter. It seems like you are intentiinally trying to misrepresent what others write.

 

[LandoComando]

Ohio St commandofan, it's OK because it's Olu's decision. I clearly stated that he should have left early if he wanted to maximize his earnings potential and not take additional risk. You aren't being honest. I also stated that Porter should leave early. It only bothers you that Olu us returning because you root for Ohio St.

But it's not okay for guys to make the opposite decision? He made the wrong decision using your logic.
The Ohio State stuff is just you lacking an argument. You know you contradicted yourself

 

[Online Persona]

I brought it up.

You replied about it.

I countered.

You then want to back off it.

Accurate enough for ya?

I wanted to back off of it because it is conflating a decision that is completely independent and unrelated to the NFL draft decision that we were discussing. Would you prefer that we add a whole bunch of extraneous unrelated things to the discussion? What about their choice of music? Their hairstyle? Their favorite TV show? Should we consider all of these when discussing if a player should declare for the draft or not?

 

[bdgan]

PSU players aren't making that. Not on average.

4 players just got a Tesla.

If Jacobs went to the portal his NIL value would be more than that.

 

[LandoComando]

I wanted to back off of it because it is conflating a decision that is completely independent and unrelated to the decision we were discussing. Would you prefer that we add a whole bunch of extraneous unrelated things to the discussion? What about their choice of music? Their hairstyle? Their favorite TV show? Should we consider all of these when discussing if a player should declare for the draft or not?

We should accept their decision as we don't know the reason behind it. It is never wrong to decide you need to move on.

 

[LandoComando]

4 players just got a Tesla.

If Jacobs went to the portal his NIL value would be more than that.

Jacobs? I think you're overselling this

 

[lazydave841]

Dave, who in this thread told a 1st round pick to return to college? You either can't read or are completely dishonest and the more things you that completely mischaracterize, the more I lean to the latter. It seems like you are intentiinally trying to misrepresent what others write.

You can write a definitive statement on it next instead of 3 sentences that mean nothing.

You need to pick a position. Either it's a players decision or they need to maximize.

What do you think Olu should do?

Why is it ok for Olu to not maximize while you strongly advise others to?

I'm not misrepresenting anything. You are a fan with biases. If you ever utter "maximize earnings", why not support the theory that Olu should go pro? He'd be the richest player of our '23 draft class.

 

[lazydave841]

I wanted to back off of it because it is conflating a decision that is completely independent and unrelated to the NFL draft decision that we were discussing. Would you prefer that we add a whole bunch of extraneous unrelated things to the discussion? What about their choice of music? Their hairstyle? Their favorite TV show? Should we consider all of these when discussing if a player should declare for the draft or not?

Tell me you are losing ground without writing "I'm losing ground."

 

[LandoComando]

Tell me you are losing ground without writing "I'm losing ground."

You know he knows he's wrong when he gets desperate

 

[Online Persona]

The Ohio St stuff is because every post you make is to diminish PSU and had been that way with every win, the rose bowl not mattering, and your quick backing of any mention of Ohio St in any thread. You are too obvious.

And it is okay if guys like brooks are fed delusions about their draft status, leave early, go undrafted, and are out of football when they had the opportunity to improve their stock and actually get drafted and actually get paid. Their decision. But it's also OK for PSU fans to hope they make better informed decisions. If his intent was to go undrafted and be out of football then I'm fine with it. If he really wanted to be drafted, his better option was returning and leading a dominant defense and likely at least hearing his name called.

 

[Online Persona]

You can write a definitive statement on it next instead of 3 sentences that mean nothing.

You need to pick a position. Either it's a players decision or they need to maximize.

What do you think Olu should do?

Why is it ok for Olu to not maximize while you strongly advise others to?

I'm not misrepresenting anything. You are a fan with biases. If you ever utter "maximize earnings", why not support the theory that Olu should go pro? He'd be the richest player of our '23 draft class.

Actually Porter is currently a higher grade but I would have advised Fashanu to declare for the draft and outlined exactly that situation in my enumerated post on various situations to leave early or stay. I'm not sure if you know this or not but I'm not his family so I don't know why you want to hold me accountable for the decision he made.

 

[LandoComando]

The Ohio St stuff is because every post you make is to diminish PSU and had been that way with every win, the rose bowl not mattering, and your quick backing of any mention of Ohio St in any thread. You are too obvious.

And it is okay if guys like brooks are fed delusions about their draft status, leave early, go undrafted, and are out of football when they had the opportunity to improve their stock and actually get drafted and actually get paid. Their decision. But it's also OK for PSU fans to hope they make better informed decisions. If his intent was to go undrafted and be out of football then I'm fine with it. If he really wanted to be drafted, his better option was returning and leading a dominant defense and likely at least hearing his name called.

How am I diminishing Penn State? We had a great season. The only win I criticized all year was Purdue unless you're mad about the lack of quality wins. We beat most of those teams how we should. I'm not going to pretend Purdue is a great win or any other unranked win we had but we're a legit top 8 team in the country as I've said continually.

You keep talking about delusions about draft status. Who says that happened? Declaring for the draft isn't what it was 20 or even 10 years ago. Brooks returning changes nothing. He knew it. Most of us know it. He was never getting drafted. He doesn't have the skill set or athleticism to be drafted.

This goes back to people criticizing Rasheed Walker for leaving and going in the 7th. He need to go and it's working out just fine for him.

Kids leave all schools for countless reasons. Not everyone enjoys being in school. Not everyone wants to stay on school for another year. Brooks was at Penn State for FIVE years. He wasn't a 21 year old running from it. He didn't come back for a 6th year. He was in the 2017 class. Anyone questioning why he enter the 2022 draft has lost their mind.

 

[marshall23]

4 players just got a Tesla.

If Jacobs went to the portal his NIL value would be more than that.

Perhaps. The limited one year use of a Tesla, is not "got" a Tesla.

 

[marshall23]

Tuition, room and board are north of 40K for in state IIRC so it's not far off...plus their getting an education. XFL you make $59K and have to pay living expenses.

The guys we are referencing have likely graduated. They aren't leaving with prospects of XFL in their minds. Playing D1 college football isn't as magical for some guys that have been there and done that as it is for a fan.

 

[africamurphy]

Maybe I'm star-struck in my optimism that those three will all boost their status. All were high 4, low 5 star recruits...and all haven't splashed yet in college.

I wouldn't have such rosy optimism about any player...Tarburton and Scruggs moving on, for example, kinda fits that narrative of guys peaking. Another year for either of them probably isn't going to get either of them a greater draft status.

But I think that's very true of Theo, Adisa, and Curtis. There's more reward than risk for them in putting in another year. (And of course, as a fan, I think it skyrockets our prospects for 2023!)

 

[Online Persona]

Maybe I'm star-struck in my optimism that those three will all boost their status. All were high 4, low 5 star recruits...and all haven't splashed yet in college.

I wouldn't have such rosy optimism about any player...Tarburton and Scruggs moving on, for example, kinda fits that narrative of guys peaking. Another year for either of them probably isn't going to get either of them a greater draft status.

But I think that's very true of Theo, Adisa, and Curtis. There's more reward than risk for them in putting in another year. (And of course, as a fan, I think it skyrockets our prospects for 2023!)

Good post, agreed. But I don't recall any of them rated 5 stars anywhere. They were all solid 4 star guys in my recollection.

 

[africamurphy]

Jacobs was a 5-star on some sites. Theo and Adisa solid 4s.

Adisa just announced he's coming back.

Waiting on Theo and Curtis now....

(I did read a quote from Curtis after the Rose Bowl that made it sound like he was coming back...)

 

[Psugo823]

Lando WILL go commando if Theo AND Curtis stay!

 

[LandoComando]

Lando WILL go commando if Theo AND Curtis stay!

Why?

 

[SLUPSU]

Yes some do regress and if they slide to the next year it can be stronger at the position. See the money Bryce Love lost by going back to school for starters. He comes out in 2018 he's at worst an early 2. There's countless examples. Your assumption returning means you move up is illogical.

Joe Burrow says you're fos.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Joe Burrow says you're fos.

Kenny Pickett agrees

 

[bono47]

Just saw on Blackshoediaries.com that Isaac is staying.....not sure if that is old news with how fast internet is.

 

[LandoComando]

Joe Burrow says you're fos.

Exception not the rule

 

[africamurphy]

What Lando says is the rule. Everyone else is the exception.

There are many examples of guys declaring and then disappearing from football...and many examples of guys sticking around and then seeing their stock soar.

And guys who declare early and do great...and guys who stick around and then see their draft stock dip.

My opinion (what the internet is good for finding lots of...OPINIONS!) is that Curtis, Adisa, and Theo haven't maximized their college potential yet to get their personal best draft stock. And just because it serves me as a fan of PSU to have them back...doesn't make it NOT true.

Is it possible that Theo will just be one of 3 good rotational TEs again next year (as he was in 2022)...Adisa stays in the shadow of Chop and Dani...Curtis is nothing more than a role player in our LB corps...? DEFINITELY! But as a fan, I hope they each explode to what their potential is!

 

[SR108]

What Lando says is the rule. Everyone else is the exception.

There are many examples of guys declaring and then disappearing from football...and many examples of guys sticking around and then seeing their stock soar.

And guys who declare early and do great...and guys who stick around and then see their draft stock dip.

My opinion (what the internet is good for finding lots of...OPINIONS!) is that Curtis, Adisa, and Theo haven't maximized their college potential yet to get their personal best draft stock. And just because it serves me as a fan of PSU to have them back...doesn't make it NOT true.

Is it possible that Theo will just be one of 3 good rotational TEs again next year (as he was in 2022)...Adisa stays in the shadow of Chop and Dani...Curtis is nothing more than a role player in our LB corps...? DEFINITELY! But as a fan, I hope they each explode to what their potential is!

I believe they were all starting to reach their potential towards the end of the season.

 

[lazydave841]

Curtis, Adisa, and Theo haven't maximized their college potential yet to get their personal best draft stock. And just because it serves me as a fan of PSU to have them back...doesn't make it NOT true.

I agree with this. Jacobs is a Sam LB with strong rush abilities. His move to Will was out of team necessity, but hopefully with Carter's emergence his return to Sam is permanent as it was from basically the OSU game on. If he returns...

Issac finished the year solid, but he's still an undersized Oweh clone at this point. He's a player in the mold of Toney, but doesn't have the sack stats yet. Hopefully he can bulk up some for '23 and be stout vs the run and still be a pass rush threat. Without Tarburton, we need a little more size at DE.

Theo could benefit a lot from being the #1 TE. Granted, he was basically 1b the past 2 years, but I think he brings more as a receiver than Strange and slightly less as a blocker. He's probably a better prospect today than Strange (some mocks have him higher), but outside of injury he has nowhere to go but up.

 

[africamurphy]

There's #2! Welcome back, Curtis!

Theo...you're up next! Let's keep the 2023 good news train rolling!

(And after watching the natty last night....I think we're a stud DT pickup in the portal away from a CFP run...Need to be able to stop the run against the big boys like Georgia, Bama, OSU)

 

[Cowbell Man]

Just for some frame of reference on the discussion of money Ola could earn that he could never get back. That’s not entirely true as it still depends on where he’s drafted. Right now, even with the high grades, there are a couple of other OL’s with high grades and more games under their belt that could be picked ahead of him. I don’t know what it translates to regarding which pick he would actually be…..but for 2023…..

The #1 pick will have a total contract value of $41M.

#10 will have $22M

#20 is $15M

If you lose $3m by not entering the draft and getting picked 20, play a year and then get picked 5th to get $7M a year, you did get the money back.

Injury is the bigger risk, but that can also be managed by Lloyds of London, to a certain extent.

 

[lazydave841]

Injury is the bigger risk, but that can also be managed by Lloyds of London, to a certain extent.

The insurance sounds good, but it also relates to career ending injuries moreso than loss of draft placement.

And another thing is starting your earning clock. $3 mm now vs getting a $20+ mm contract in 4-5 years. You only have so many years to play. Not quite the issue with OL as it is, day, a RB,but still exists.

 

[PAgeologist]

No he didn't---another year wasn't changing that

Assuming Brooks (and others) left school with intentions of going to the NFL, he made a huge mistake. If I remember right, he didn't grade high enough to get drafted. And I don't believe he made a team.

If he left for whatever other reason (start a career, personal issues, done with football, etc) then he absolutely made the right call.

 

[lazydave841]

Assuming Brooks (and others) left school with intentions of going to the NFL, he made a huge mistake. If I remember right, he didn't grade high enough to get drafted. And I don't believe he made a team.

Brooks could do more combine specific training between his declaring for the draft and the combine without being a student than he could have as a student.

Returning definitely would not have hurt his NFL chances simply because he didn't get drafted and he didn't stick with a team.

Returning does not guarantee that he becomes an NFL quality player either.

He's currently slated to play in the XFL. So apparently he's trying to keep active in the sport. Unless he comes out and says he was misled, I'm inclined to believe that he knew his options well and decided he didn't need a 6th year of college.

 

[Cowbell Man]

The insurance sounds good, but it also relates to career ending injuries moreso than loss of draft placement.

And another thing is starting your earning clock. $3 mm now vs getting a $20+ mm contract in 4-5 years. You only have so many years to play. Not quite the issue with OL as it is, day, a RB,but still exists.

Starting your clock today to make $3M is beaten by starting your clock a year later to make $7M.

The insurance can be tailored to expected earnings. And yes, it’s a career ending insurance.

So basically Ola gets the appropriate insurance policy, boosts his draft position 8-10 places and he wins, not loses.

 

[SR108]

Take a look at our 2023 roster...and assuming we don't lose any starters or probable contributors to the transfer portal...

And the difference between a CFP run and another good-not-great season is the decision of these three fellas to come back next year.

All three should blossom to stars next year. All were good this year (Jacobs was probably the best...), but none dominated. With another year they can become dominant. What's in it for them?

Adisa can go from a 7th round pick to a day 2 pick.
Theo can go from a 3rd or 4th round pick to a 1st or 2nd round pick.
Jacobs can go from a 4th or 5th round pick to a day 2 pick.

And for PSU...we'd get an experienced, star LB back...an elite, top 5 in the nation TE for Allar to find in a pinch...and an elite DE to rotate with Chop and Deni.

I will allow the 2023 hype train to rev to full speed if those three return!

Stay tuned...

Any word on Theo yet? Hoping for the trifecta!