It's OSUs World; Were just living in it
- Thread starter rutgersal
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Coming from the bastion of civilization broadly known as Pennsyltucky.
You're right, there weren't any National Titles after 1968, but if you actually know college football history, it was hardly three decades of down times. The next decade (1969-1978) Ohio State and Michigan finished in the top ten the same year seven times. Michigan finished in the top 10 every year. And between 1969 and 1992 Michigan finished in the top 10 a total of 19 times. Including the last 5 before Penn State joined.
Ohio State fell off and had a (relatively) terrible decade in the 80's. But lets run the total numbers 1969-1992:
Michigan: 222-53-8, 19 top ten finishes, 22 finished ranked
Penn State: 223-60-2, 12 top ten finishes, 18 finishes ranked, 2 national titles
Ohio State: 204-67-7, 10 top ten finishes, 18 finishes ranked
I was 10 in 1992, so I don't remember the hoopla or the feelings leading to Penn State joining...but they were hardly an unstoppable juggernaut coming in. The two national titles hide that they finished unranked half the last decade of independence and 11 and 15 two other years. Don't get me wrong, I'd trade 5 unranked seasons in a decade for 2 national titles (and I'm sure Michigan would as well), but let's not pretend that the Lions were a runaway freight train coming into the conference (5-6, 8-3-1, 9-3, 11-2 and 7-5 their last five years independent).
Class.
24 years pre Big Ten (285 games played): Penn State: 223-60-2 (0.786 winning percentage)
23 years post Big Ten (285 games played): Penn State: 192-93 (0.673 winning percentage)
24 years pre Penn State joining (278 games played): Ohio State: 204-67-7 (0.746 winning percentage)
23 years post Penn State joining (282 games played): Ohio State: 226-55-1 (0.803 winning percentage)
I'm sure it's all the refs though.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
You could make a case that adding Penn State in '93 jump-started the Big Ten. Prior to our joining, the last Big Ten team to win a National Championship (outside of Penn State in '86) was Ohio State in 1970. Michigan hadn't won one since 1966. But, after we join, Michigan wins one in '97, and OSU wins one in '02. Certainly, other factors at play but no doubt our joining was a jolt to a conference whose midwestern powerhouses seemed content winning Big Ten Championships, Rose Bowls, and 'The Game' and were mostly also-ran's otherwise.
Having said that, this conference sucks.
Having said that, this conference sucks.
Buckeye fans can only beat their chest about wins on Saturdays.
Because on Sundays it's just loss, after loss, after loss, after loss.
Urbs had his come to Jesus moment in Florida after what, year 6? We're fast approaching that deadline.
Because on Sundays it's just loss, after loss, after loss, after loss.
Urbs had his come to Jesus moment in Florida after what, year 6? We're fast approaching that deadline.
kybuckeye2 said:
AKA... "You're right, and I can't refute anything you said, but I'm hoping you stop talking about."
I think a case could be made that this played a part. That perhaps Ohio State and Michigan became too focused on beating each other (a major reason John Cooper was hired was because he beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl) and a program coming in with two National Titles in the past decade shook them out of that.
However, Ohio State was also unlikely to stay down forever and it's possible the turnaround in the 90's would have happened regardless.
kybuckeye2 said:
And that winning record would be something to be very proud of, if this was the NFL.
"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS"
"Irregardless", you aren't reflecting very well on the value of an OSU education. Since a winning team is defined as any team with more wins that losses, despite the unjust sanctions and the blatant officiating bias, we too root for a winning team genius.
"After three games, [the NFL] was out of the question," Jones said. "A first-round draft pick means nothing to me without my education."
But yes, one stupid tweet shows the world that he's not serious about school. I'm sure glad you never did anything stupid when you were young.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
I recall that time well. Nobody ever claimed we were an unstoppable juggernaut but there were some in the B1G who thought we'd be a threat to the dominance of the Big Two. I never heard anyone in the PSU community say such a thing but over time the thoughts of those B1G people have been attributed to PSU fans. "Yeah, Penn State thought they'd come to the Big Ten and dominate. We showed them!!" No PSU fan I know ever thought that way but the conference in general seemed as though it wanted to put us in our place. As an example, in 91-92 our basketball team had to play as an independent before moving the the B1G in 92-93. It was hard to fill the schedule since other schools had conference obligations. We played American U. twice, UMBC twice, Marshall twice, Butler twice, Old Dominion twice. You'd think our future conference mates would have helped us out and scheduled us. One of the conference coaches made a point of publicly saying they would not play us and that we needed to be shown our place (to paraphrase). The two exceptions were Illinois and Ohio State which were both collegial enough to give us a game.
Also, look no further than Delany's comments when Nebraska joined. He said the conference wanted to avoid the mistakes it made when Penn State came aboard. That's the only time I've heard anyone in the conference even vaguely admit to bungling the manner in which we were "welcomed" to the conference.
That's sort of the way it started until The Big Ten decided that they couldn't have any more of that. Your conference was pretty much a laughing stock until Penn State joined. By the way, why is it Ohio State was allowed to keep its bowl proceeds during sanctions and Penn State was not? And why did one of your referees tell one of our players after yet another bad call vs. Wisconsin to shut-up and that Penn State was lucky to be playing at all? That pretty much tells you everything. And as I've requested before, come up with just one controversial game changing call that went Penn State's way vs. OSU or Michigan. I'll save you some time --- you won't find a single one in the 23 years that we have been in the conference
And chances are slim that you went to school there...just another of the many Wal Mart OSU fans...second only to ND in that regard.
Nosoj said:
But yes, one damage control quote that appears to have been written by someone else (based on the grammar) should make us completely ignore his previous comment. Especially since we did completely unrelated, but much less stupid stuff when we were young.
I was referring to being an OSU fan vs. a Pitt fan.
And what turn of phrase, pray tell, will your fanbase repeat ad nauseam next year, when Cardale is gone? Any chance that someone will come up with something original?
kybuckeye2 said:
Great, then it should be really easy for you to post an informative response instead of just dodging. We're waiting.
kybuckeye2 said:
My apologies for misunderstanding you. Pitt has a losing record over the last 25 years that is fact.
We will never stop repeating the Cardale phrase, because it is original, and it is hilarious. It will literally never get old. Granted, your NFL factory never seems to come with new gems, so let's hope for your sake that you find them original.
Here's all the gems I need:
October 27, 2012 State College #9 Ohio State 35 Penn State 23 Ohio State 14–13
October 26, 2013 Columbus #4 Ohio State 63 Penn State 14 Ohio State 15–13
October 25, 2014 State College #13 Ohio State 31 Penn State 24 Ohio State 16–13
October 17, 2015 Columbus #1 Ohio State 38 Penn State 10 Ohio State 17–13
Which gem in particular was your favorite, the bouncing ball, the loss of replay feed, the phantom time outs, the expired play clock, the absolute mugging that let Barrett walk in the endzone contrasted against the ticky tack hold that brought Barkley's TD back?
It's gotta feel really good to know your team couldn't beat an unjustly sanctioned PSU team in 2014 without help from the refs. Frankly it's sad how invested you are in a bunch of kids that play for a school you probably never even went to. But please keep going to other boards to post your nonsense... it's comedy gold!
kybuckeye2 said:
Dodge, dodge, dodge.
Granted, you haven't yet reached the level of the Pitt and Rutgers posters, but you still an absolute joke to everyone on this board. It's sad that you don't even realize it, and I'm kinda starting to feel bad for you.
And in February 1993, PSU learned the "welcome" they would receive from the B1G when they played #1 IU in Rec Hall!! It was clearly a sign of things to come.
It is all about value systems. I know a great many OSU graduates. ALL of them feel "student-ATHLETES" are like hired maintenance workers. Any education they receive is on them. Much like Kentucky BB. John Caliper - "if a recruit has to stay past his freshmen year then I have failed as a coach". At least he is not a hypocrite. Many "college" coaches pretend they do not operate that way. As PSU, I and the vast majority of their fans would be gone if we ever became an OSU. Winning is not everything and we have proved you can win with TRUE honor.
Does that make us better?, no, just different values.
Does that make us better?, no, just different values.
Thank you. I did not know about the basketball issues, I didn't even know you could schedule a team more than once.
And I won't argue that the Big Ten nailed the transition bringing Penn State on board, because I'd be lying. Blindsiding everyone, including the faculty, coaches and AD's was dumb. And Delany and the presidents at the time should certainly take the heat for that and try to do better the next time.
I mean...kinda? In the first five years Ohio State was 32-7-1, Penn State was 31-9 and Michigan was 28-12. Penn State was 3-2 against Michigan and 2-3 against Ohio State. Ohio State won two Big Ten titles, Northwestern won two Big Ten titles and Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan all won one. Penn State had an undefeated season and should have had a national title, Michigan had an undefeated season and a national title. And, as I mentioned earlier, Michigan finished in the top ten 19 out of the 24 seasons before Penn State joined.
You will find controversial game changing calls that went against them against other programs though. As I've said in the past, I can buy that one official or even one team of officials (Dave Witvoet and company) could have a bias. I think it's unfathomable that there's been a conference wide conspiracy over 23 years and not one person has let it slip.
Damage control a prompt 28 months later! Well done.
It's not at all unrelated. Everyone does stupid things when they're young. One of his happened to be posting a stupid tweet after getting a lower grade on an exam than he anticipated, and it was captured forever. He could have left last year and been a high draft pick, he came back and finished his degree. Whether that was THE driving factor or not, he'll have his degree! Oh wait, but he sent a tweet 3+ years ago. Damn.
Probably true at this time because success breeds success. On the other hand, this doom and gloom about not being able to compete with them is nonsense. Ask Michigan State. I am fully convinced that Franklin doesn't feel that he can't recruit and build the program to the point where he can compete for Big and National Championships. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but the alternative (a defeatist attitude) in unacceptable. It wasn't that long ago that mighty Alabama backed out of a game with PSU because the program had been weakened because of its own sanctions.
You know some dumb OSU grads. And I'll bet I know more of them than you, and I've never heard one person express this. To be honest, it sounds kinda like someone coming on a message board and bragging about how much money they make or how big their house is.
He comes up with something new. They come up with something new. Everybody comes up with something new.
Pryor----->Cardale------>player to be named
yes because 1994 didn't exist nor did 2005 nor did the season series knotted at 13-13 through 2011 ...only the last 4 years has OSU gotten on a streak..and we all know how some of those went cough.. cough
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Nosoj said:
So you start your post by questioning why someone would be performing damage control 28 months later, then finish your post by saying that people are still talking about it 3+ years later. I think you just answered your own question.
It's complete apples and oranges. Not only was the comment completely ridiculous, he also put it out there for the world to see on social media. Certainly doesn't compare to the time I missed curfew by 5 minutes.
Dawgjuice....it does make us BETTER....at PSU we WIN games and graduate players at a high rate. At PSU we WIN games and have NEVER break NCAA rules. If you want a tattoo at PSU you can have one, but you must pay for it out of your own wallet. There are no car dealers in State College giving players cars like they have done in Columbus. At PSU if you get caught driving drunk you are probably done for the season not just one game. If caught driving with an expired license you don't get 30 carries 3 days later in a bowl game....maybe that's why PSU players make more of a positive impact in society 20 years after they have graduated...they learned how to be men at PSU...
Oh yeah, they'd certainly never suspend a guy one game for drunk driving. Ever. Joe was too great for that.
http://articles.philly.com/2003-10-...king-and-disorderly-conduct-underage-drinking
Oh, and lets not forget Andrew Quarless. Drunk driving in a "borrowed" BMW. Suspended 0 games.
http://www.scout.com/college/penn-state/story/735241-quarless-charged-with-dui?s=157
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13440/year/2008/type/college/andrew-quarless
Joe was greater than anything OSU could ever even think of having...don't recall Paterno ever punching an opposing player in the face during a game. What was Woody's graduation rate? How many NCAA violations has the OSU had in the past 5 years...wanna keep going?
The facts tell a different story.
Big 10's "Little 8" vs Eastern Independent's "Little 7"
1966 - 1992: The Pre-Big 10 Joe Paterno Era
1. Head-to-Head Comparison 1966 - 1992
Big 10's "Little 8" Record Versus
E. Independent's "Little 7"
Big 10 Team Record vs Eastern "Little 7"
Illinois 5 - 4
Indiana 3 - 4
Iowa 1 - 1
Michigan State 5 - 3 - 1
Minnesota 0 - 3
Northwestern 2 - 8
Purdue 0 - 2
Wisconsin 1 - 3 - 1
TOTAL 17 - 28 - 2
37.7%
E. Independent's "Little 7" Record
Versus Big 10's "Little 8"
Eastern Team Record vs Big 10's "Little 8"
Boston College 2 - 0
Maryland 1 - 0
Pittsburgh 8 - 2
Rutgers 4 - 1
Syracuse 9 - 13 - 2
Temple 1 - 0
West Virginia 3 - 1
TOTAL 28 - 17 - 2
62.2%
2. I-A Winning Percentage 1966 - 1992
(National Ranking of 110 I-A Teams)
Rank Team Win-Pct Won Lost Tied
33 West Virginia 59.046% 176 121 7
39 Rutgers 56.574% 161 123 5
45 Pittsburgh 55.082% 164 133 8
46 Syracuse 54.801% 163 134 5
49 Boston College 54.054% 159 135 2
57t Michigan State 52.181% 151 138 9
62 Maryland 50.987% 152 146 6
67 Purdue 48.986% 143 149 4
69 Temple 48.410% 135 144 4
71 Iowa 48.039% 143 155 8
78 Illinois 44.833% 130 161 9
80 Minnesota 44.407% 128 161 6
84 Indiana 41.806% 122 171 6
95 Wisconsin 38.176% 109 179 8
109 Northwestern 22.603% 64 224 4
TOTAL Big 10's "Little 8" 42.526% 990 1338 54
TOTAL Eastern Independent's "Little 7" 54.252% 1110 936 37
3. Bowl Records 1966 - 1992
Big 10's "Little 8" Bowl Record
Big 10 Team Bowl Record 1966-1992
Illinois 1 - 7
Indiana 3 - 4
Iowa 4 - 5 - 1
Michigan State 3 - 3
Minnesota 1 - 2
Northwestern 0 - 0
Purdue 4 - 1
Wisconsin 1 - 2
TOTAL 17 - 24 -1
41.5%
E. Independent's "Little 7" Bowl Record
Eastern Team Bowl Record 1966-1992
Boston College 2 - 3
Maryland 4 - 7 - 1
Pittsburgh 7 - 5
Rutgers 0 - 1
Syracuse 6 - 2 -1
Temple 1 - 0
West Virginia 5 - 5
TOTAL 25 - 23 - 2
52.1%
Are you sure you want to go down the road of comparing OSU and PSU coaches? 'Cause it could get ugly in a real hurry.
Sure, change the subject.
Woody's graduation rate, by the way was in the 80's. He had a temper and made an unacceptable mistake, but getting kids their degrees was of supreme importance to him. Perhaps do a little research and get back to me.
