Joel Klatt's preseason top 25
- Thread starter Hugh Laurie
- Start date
It’s a PRE season poll. Not where he thinks the teams will be at the end of the season
Doesn't UM have to replace 10 players on offense, including their QB? Seems the rating is pretty high with that re-building. Must have some great talent waiting in the wings.
Maybe I don't understand what this ranking is supposed to represent, but it seems to me that it should represent which teams are the best, not what their records will be. If only six teams are better than Michigan, then Michigan should be number 7. Who they play has no bearing on that.
There are teams that return more seasoned talent that should be ahead of PSU? Who are they?
Yep, and great programs do a great job at replacing their player losses. But those losses still do create unknowns. A greater unknown than a team that has a QB that showed talent but will likely take the next step forward in performance due to the experience he had gotten and the maturity that goes with an off season and additional practice reps and coaching, for example.....
Interesting debate. Are preseason polls merely based on expectations of talent or are they predictions of final standings? Are they merely a look at team talent + coaching ability? Or are they an assessment of how they should end the season?
And if they are just a look at talent quality then should fans and administrators be upset should a team fall below that at end of year? If you had #5 talent why shouldn’t you end up at five if the coaching is good?
I don't think some of these will hold in the rankings because top teams play each other. For example Ole Miss plays LSU, Georgia, Florida, and Oklahoma. Assume they split those games and finish with 2 losses. I doubt that a 2 loss team with a horrible OOC schedule will be ranked #5. Texas plays Michigan, Oklahoma, Georgia, Florida, and A&M. They would have to win 4 out of 5 to finish 3rd.
These might be the best 25 teams but they aren't likely to all finish in the top 25 spots. A group of 5 team like Memphis or Boise State is likely to finish in the top 10 because they will only have 1 loss.
IMO ND is a best bet because of their weak schedule. I don't see them losing more than 1 game if they get by A&M week 1.
One thing for sure. PSU better finish higher than 10th if they hope to make the 12 team playoff (unless Michigan finishes above them but the says they're ineligible for the playoffs).
A smart man once said that your record says what you are. Everything else is just opinion. If UM plays 3 teams that he, Klatt, says should beat them how the heck does he expect a three-loss team to be ranked #7?
I agree. and interesting debate. but I would argue that the records are the rankings. If not, why even play the games?
At the same time, Klatt is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Utah ranked #9 is clearly due to a very easy schedule due to a depleted PAC 12. They won't play USC, Oregon or Washington this year. There is simply no way to justify their ranking over PSU, LSU and Tenn other than SOS. I would argue the same with Missouri and K-state as well. Does Klatt really believe those teams are better than LSU and Tenn?
While fun to discuss, this means absolutely nothing IMO.
Ohio State may be everyone’s #1 on paper, but they play two of their three biggest games away, one of which is 4 hours and a time change away.
At least this year a 12 team playoff should answer most questions decisively by the end of the season.
Agreed. There will be teams that will argue that they should be in the top 12 but if they didn't make it, have very little shot at a Natty. There is a big difference between the top 4 programs and the 11th. Look at us last year. We were knocking but were far inferior to both UM and tOSU when we played.
I know they return Edwards and Loveland (RB and TE). Last rumblings I saw said they might play Tuttle at QB early. I would have thought Orji had the job locked up (and he might) but I've not read a lot about them.
The defense should be great. They have recruited well.
Utah is Big 12 this year. And they play something like 5 of the 6 lowest rated Big 12 teams. Rising is back for his 7th year (and he's eligible for an 8th somehow).
The general sentiment is them, Okie State, and K State are the Big 12 frontrunner. Kansas has been a trendy 4th pick, top 20-25ish team.
Why have polls, then? Just have standings like the NFL does. Of course, there are many reasons why that wouldn't work for college football.
its a good question. To seel papers, I guess. But it needs to be rooted in reality. The preseason poll is a prediction. It isn't "who is the best team" because we haven't played the games. So if it is a prediction, it is flawed per my comments.
It can be a prediction of which teams, by season's end, will have proven to be the best. (Whether or not that's Joel Klatt's intent, I don't know.) A team's schedule only affects how many games it will win. It doesn't make that team better or worse. That's why teams with a loss or two are sometimes ranked higher than undefeated teams.
If some guy fought the top three fighters in the world and barely lost each fight, he still might be favored against any other fighter in the world.
It depends. Guys like Phil Steele do their preseason picks based on where they think they will finish. That way they can make claims like the most accurate pre-season magazine. Others go based on where they stand going into week 1 only.
"proven to be the best" is a matter of Ws and Ls. If UM loses to the teams the Klatt feel are better, three of them, how can he rank them #7? We lost to both UM and tOSU. We ended up being #13. Both tOSU and Um made the four team playoff. So why were we penalized and ranked lower than teams that had losses to crappy teams? Same logic. If UM loses 3 games, they will NOT be ranked 7th regardless of SOS just like we weren't ranked 7th after losing to UM and tOSU.
Proven to be the best is not simply numbers of wins and losses. If it were, then polls would not be used for anything. And yes, if a team barely loses to three of the top four teams and then obliterates some other highly ranked teams, it might be worthy of a number seven ranking. Also worth noting that Klatt's ranking does not predict that Michigan will lose three games.
So why play the games. lets just have them practice, Klatt and his friends, can just run around and tell us who is best.
I am simply saying his logic makes zero sense.
I think pre-season polls should be thrown out and real polls should be done after the first couple of conference games. Before that, there is too little data and it only serves to bias all subsequent polls.
They play the games so the pollsters can analyze the on field results and rank them accordingly. Unless they start making all teams play similarly difficult schedules, then it's a necessary evil. An evil that is somewhat mitigated by the 12 team playoff.
Fair enough. I am just stating, by his own ranking, UM will lose 3 games. They will NOT be ranked #7 and be in the playoffs if they lose 3 games. So he can SAY that they are the 7th best going into the season but if he is predicting they lose 3 games, who gives a flying rat's ass what he thinks? His logic is illogical.
I think Missouuri. My post is more a concern that PSU & UM have many questions. ND, typical early season hype.
ND has an incredibly easy schedule. Their most difficult game is FSU. After that, it is USC and TA&M. They play
TAMU
N IL
Purdue
Miami OH
Louisville
Stanford
GA tech
Navy
FSU
VA
Army
USC
We can only say it's illogical if we know what his ranking is supposed to represent. If it represents his ranking of the best teams, regardless of the playoffs, then it's not illogical. Playing great teams doesn't make you worse.Fair enough. I am just stating, by his own ranking, UM will lose 3 games. They will NOT be ranked #7 and be in the playoffs if they lose 3 games. So he can SAY that they are the 7th best going into the season but if he is predicting they lose 3 games, who gives a flying rat's ass what he thinks? His logic is illogical.
Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you're the fourth tallest person in your class. If I place you back to back with the three tallest people in your class, then you will "lose" the height comparison each time. That would not disqualify you from being the fourth tallest person.
If they don't go undefeated with that schedule then they are not even a top 10 team.
I understand. But in spite of having 8 players drafted this Spring it seems that PSU has more experience coming back than most teams (other than OSU and a couple others), including the starting QB which we all know is a big advantage, which is why I find it hard to find fault with PSU's position in the polls.
Yeah, I now remember the 2008 rankings before the season. We started around #25 and Wisky was around #15, after a few weeks we were about #15 and Wisky was up to #9. I said, "how can that be, we beat them last year 38-7 and we have 18 of the 22 starters returning. We solved the problem by going up to Camp Randall and whacking them "48-7" on a Saturday night. No problem, we were just a better team again. IIRC Maybin had a field day up there.
Your record says what you are?
By that logic, everyone should be ranked first and last until they play a game, so why are you crying about it?
Fair enough. I am just stating, by his own ranking, UM will lose 3 games. They will NOT be ranked #7 and be in the playoffs if they lose 3 games. So he can SAY that they are the 7th best going into the season but if he is predicting they lose 3 games, who gives a flying rat's ass what he thinks? His logic is illogical.
Even playing this game of you concocting made up parameters ... why would you say he's predicting them to lose 3 games? You are aware that you can beat teams ranked ahead of you, right?
That's not true lol. Not all schedule ls are even. 12-0 in the Big Ten or SEC is far superior to 12-0 in any other conference
