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Just not feeling it at 125, 149, 157, 197, and 285....

BrucePa

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Sep 23, 2001
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Going to 11
I realize there have been some injuries, but when was the last time Penn State was likely to be scoring maybe single digits total points at nationals from 5 weights?

OK, Berge has a chance to recover a 157 and score some points, and Rasheed is wrestling injured at 197. But it's easy to imagine Penn State getting clobbered at these 5 weights at nationals.

On display against tOSU....20-16 was painfully close. It could have been 23-13 if any one of those 5 weights had done anything positive.
 
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I realize there have been some injuries, but when was the last time Penn State was likely to be scoring maybe single digits total points at nationals from 5 weights?

OK, Berge has a chance to recover a 157 and score some points, and Rasheed is wrestling injured at 197. But it's easy to imagine Penn State getting clobbered at these 5 weights at nationals.

On display against tOSU....20-16 was painfully close. It could have been 23-13 if any one of those 5 weights had done anything positive.

In 2017 we won the title with 146.5 points, only 18.5 of those points came from 125, 133, 141, 197, 285.
 
I realize there have been some injuries, but when was the last time Penn State was likely to be scoring maybe single digits total points at nationals from 5 weights?

OK, Berge has a chance to recover a 157 and score some points, and Rasheed is wrestling injured at 197. But it's easy to imagine Penn State getting clobbered at these 5 weights at nationals.

On display against tOSU....20-16 was painfully close. It could have been 23-13 if any one of those 5 weights had done anything positive.
Penn State Pessimism on full display.

Serious questions:
Did Berge and Nevills not do anything positive last night?

What part of the 197 match made you think the team score would've been any different if Shak "had done anything positive"? Shak was 0-2 vs. Moore before last night. Moore looks every bit of a national champ, and last night is what national champs do.
 
149: Verk just took the number 1 kid in the country to SV. Verk is improving and will be fine. Berge is just a little rusty. He'll be fine. Nevills , like most FR, took an unexpected loss. He'll learn from this and I hope is okay.
 
I realize there have been some injuries, but when was the last time Penn State was likely to be scoring maybe single digits total points at nationals from 5 weights?

OK, Berge has a chance to recover a 157 and score some points, and Rasheed is wrestling injured at 197. But it's easy to imagine Penn State getting clobbered at these 5 weights at nationals.

On display against tOSU....20-16 was painfully close. It could have been 23-13 if any one of those 5 weights had done anything positive.

Imagine being this spoiled. It’s possible we could have 5 finalists!

Meredith gives 110% every match. Verk is excellent defensively, and doing a great job battling while suffering from diabetes. Berge just returned from a very serious concussion. Give him time. Shak is the quintessential Penn State wrestler in that he’s a perfect team player. Nevills is young, and he’s still learning but the talent is evident.

Enjoy the process of watching these kids get better, and cheer them on every step of the way.
 
RBY, Lee, Verk & Brooks all getting better before our eyes. Shak getting better too, just needs confidence in his shot. Brandon continues to fight, hard. Berge, just glad he is back and able to scrap. Seth is doing as expected when he was thrust into this crappy situation.

Hall and Joseph will be 4x finalists.........all time college wrestling greats.

If someone is better than this team, congrats to them, but you are going to have to be at your very best in March to beat us. PSU will be better a month from now. CS always has his team peaking at the right time.
 
You have to look at it from the other direction. RBY is improving with every outing. The more focused he gets, the better his chances to reach the top. Lee is an animal and no one can touch him now, apparently. Cenzo, Markie both should be in the finals. I expect both to win. And Brooks is showing that he intends to become another PSU elite wrestler.
That leaves Berge, Verk, Nevills, and Shak to score some add-on points at NCAA's. The more they score, the better our chances. If Berge comes back all the way, he could be a big plus. If Verk ratchets up his offense, he could make some noise. Shak is a bigger question mark. But Nevills has the talent to do very well. He just needs the experience, I guess.
So beating our chest and crying is kinda counter-productive given that we are the #2 team in the country with the potential to win it all. There are probably people on HR whining that the Bull will probably blow it again this year. Hope he does.
 
Penn State Pessimism on full display.

Serious questions:
Did Berge and Nevills not do anything positive last night?

What part of the 197 match made you think the team score would've been any different if Shak "had done anything positive"? Shak was 0-2 vs. Moore before last night. Moore looks every bit of a national champ, and last night is what national champs do.
Ok, I'll bite (though perhaps against my better judgement):
  • Just seeing Berge on the mat is a positive. He got a TD but then gassed late, which isn't really surprising. Overall, positive.
  • Nevills got a TD but then hurt his leg, and IMO wasn't the same after that and ending up losing to GTG. With the injury and the loss to a guy he should beat, that's an overall negative.
  • Rasheed did about as I expected against Moore, losing by MD. So that match itself is neither positive nor negative. Bigger picture, however, Rahseed is now 4-4 since his return and has not been his former self. Plus, he's now under the ominous Sanderson characterization of "what he does is up to him", never a good sign.
 
In 2017 we won the title with 146.5 points, only 18.5 of those points came from 125, 133, 141, 197, 285.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't see us even sniffing 18.5 points out of 25, 49, 57, 97 and HWT. There's a real possibility we don't even end up sending anyone to Nationals at 4 of these weight classes (25, 49, 57 and 97).
 
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149: Verk just took the number 1 kid in the country to SV. Verk is improving and will be fine. Berge is just a little rusty. He'll be fine. Nevills , like most FR, took an unexpected loss. He'll learn from this and I hope is okay.
What do you mean by "Verk will be fine"?

Given their non-offensive styles, Verk and Sasso going to OT without a takedown didn't surprise me much. And by now we should all pretty well know how Verk wrestles and what are reasonable expectations for him.
 
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I think Shak is basically healthy now, but his problem is that he is undersized. His quickness is isnt enough to counteract his lack of strength.
 
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I am good with being a rabbid fan of anything PSU dating back to when JoePa was just getting started. Cael's program the best spanning a decade, and both this year and next could play out to be minor speed bumps in Cael's continuing string of greatness or somewhat unexpected championships while behind the eight ball a bit due to big injuries to big kids. We enter the year with three 6th year title contenders and exit with one struggling to get 'it' back. Most other programs wouldn't have a shot at top 5 facing such adversity. We are - blessed

I don't go off the rails everyone of our weaker weights get some criticism though on the board, and I don't knee jerk want to toss someone who criticizes some of these great kids with some honesty as opposed to trollism. Like it or not assessing the team is what 30% of this board content is, and by nature it is not always going to be homerism, 100% positive.

Kids like Schnupp and Meredith work as hard and sacrifice a much as Nick, Markie and Cenzo and my hat is tipped to all 32+ kids on the team. They tread on ground I can only dream of for sure.

A look a those 5 weights:

125 - he works hard and gives his all but he is out classed athletically by elite kids and we get 0 points there likely don't even qualify I still cheer him on and virtually every match I hope for a surprise, and he has given us one this year already!

149 - probably three most frustrating wrestler on the team from a fan's perspective. He has a pretty good pedigree and resume but is the most conservative wrestler I have seen in maybe a decade. He can 'manage' almost any match to a late decision loss, but if you are honest with yourself, lacks the vision in his head and drive to win any of them. If you don't shoot you cant win and he simply has zero offense especially late in matches. If you transplanted Nolfs brain in his body he would probably be a NC for sure. There is no physical reason (yes, including his diabetes) why he can't win against ranked kids 75% of the time and be an easy AA. He just does not have the feel or confidence to let it rip and shoot 5+ times per match, so despite his having yet another "impressing" loss against a top ranked kid he has no realistic path to victory against most. So multiple times he has taken a top 4ish kid to the brink, but the next time out will do the same against a #15 or a #20 as to a #1. To be perfectly honest he could, probably should, have been hit with mutiple stall calls last night maybe to the point of a DQ, but somewhat inexplicably gave just enough to get none. Sasso did not impress for a #1 as well. I wouldn't be surprised at 0 points here.

It's all that disrespectful or just observing the facts as I can see them. As with Meredith I totally respect the commitment and sacrifice Verk has made to represent our team, and I will still go into each match cheering him on hopping he will simply let it go and get some offense.

157 - not much comment here. We are blessed to have him back on the mat, and anything he can give us indeed a blessing. He could get a bad draw at Bigs and might deliver anything from 0-somewhere in the teens. Let's sit back and enjoy his journey, he seems to be healthy and has a future so all is good.

197 - much like Berge above. He is definitely progressing, but still looks light years from 2018. I haven't seen even one cradle yet. I think we are blessed if he can eke out an AA, but I am not calling for Beards shirt. I see 0-8ish points, anything more is icing on the cake.

HWT - an enigma. He had as strong a resume as any and a full grey shirt year in the room. He looks like a kid who is getting beat by Cassar and Kirk daily to the point here has lost his confidence. Gable broke him mentally (as if he wouldn't break all of us) and yesterday's match if you are honest was just so deflating. Vs a RS freshman 2nd string nobody kid with whom you have a 40 pounds advantage? Come on Seth you are a 4x state champ who has been in the PSU room long enough to know you belong. He looked solid the first period and then....? Maybe (probably) he did hurt his knee so we must grant him that., but he definitely has a pattern of late match fading that will kill him in the tourney. It could be many things but he seems like a kid whose dream of a career in blue and white may have been taken away. On paper he should be tearing it up with everyone not named Gable, Mason and Cass and we saw some indications earlier in the season, but to me he does not look like the same kid mentally. The difference was on display, a 220 lb gas tank Garry has all of the confidence in the world right now and shows it against all comers, Seth looks like he doesn't believe in himself especially in the 3rd period when all wrestlers get tired. I know this is a bit harsh but he could be anywhere from 0- AA points if he gets his mind right. I still think he will have a better career than his brother Nick when all is said and done.

So in summary we could see 0 points worst case from all 5, but to be honest who gives a shit. Cael has and will continue to give us the best sports fan platform on the planet including all sports right now. His is a legend, the team is awesome, we may or may not do it this year, but I am 100% confident we will win another NC within 3 years and multiples thereafter. I honestly hope our kids don't read these boards but if they do they should know we love being fans of each and every one of them and feel blessed to have the honor to sit on the sidelines, overweight with or better days behind us, talking about what they do. If we talk shit about you ignore it and listen to Cael.
 
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What do you mean by "very will be fine"?

Given their non-offensive styles, Verk and Sasso going to OT without a takedown didn't surprise me much. And by now we should all pretty well know how Verk wrestles and what are reasonable expectations for him.

Yea, I don't think he has taken an offensive shot all year against a ranked wrestler. If some of you get pissed off about criticism read Cael's quotes from last night.
 
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I hear what you're saying, but I don't see us even sniffing 18.5 points out of 25, 49, 57, 97 and HWT. There's a real possibility we don't even end up sending anyone to Nationals at 4 of these weight classes (25, 49, 57 and 97).

Maybe you're right, but Cael's record for peaking his team in March is pretty damn good. Until proven otherwise I'll assume we'll show up loose, ready and confident.

Just like tOSU in 2018, the target is on Iowa's back. Let's see if they can handle the Friday night lights any better than the Buckeyes did 2 years ago.
 
I am good with being a rabbid fan of anything PSU dating back to when JoePa was just getting started. Cael's program the best spanning a decade, and both this year and next could play out to be minor speed bumps in Cael's continuing string of greatness or somewhat unexpected championships while behind the eight ball a bit due to big injuries to big kids. We enter the year with three 6th year title contenders and exit with one struggling to get 'it' back. Most other programs wouldn't have a shot at top 5 facing such adversity. We are - blessed

I don't go off the rails everyone of our weaker weights get some criticism though on the board, and I don't knee jerk want to toss someone who criticizes some of these great kids with some honesty as opposed to trollism. Like it or not assessing the team is what 30% of this board content is, and by nature it is not always going to be homerism, 100% positive.

Kids like Schnupp and Meredith work as hard and sacrifice a much as Nick, Markie and Cenzo and my hat is tipped to all 32+ kids on the team. They tread on ground I can only dream of for sure.

A look a those 5 weights:

125 - he works hard and gives his all but he is out classed athletically by elite kids and we get 0 points there likely don't even qualify I still cheer him on and virtually every match I hope for a surprise, and he has given us one this year already!

149 - probably three most frustrating wrestler on the team from a fan's perspective. He has a pretty good pedigree and resume but is the most conservative wrestler I have seen in maybe a decade. He can 'manage' almost any match to a late decision loss, but if you are honest with yourself, lacks the vision in his head and drive to win any of them. If you don't shoot you cant win and he simply has zero offense especially late in matches. If you transplanted Nolfs brain in his body he would probably be a NC for sure. There is no physical reason (yes, including his diabetes) why he can't win against ranked kids 75% of the time and be an easy AA. He just does not have the feel or confidence to let it rip and shoot 5+ times per match, so despite his having yet another "impressing" loss against a top ranked kid he has no realistic path to victory against most. So multiple times he has taken a top 4ish kid to the brink, but the next time out will do the same against a #15 or a #20 as to a #1. To be perfectly honest he could, probably should, have been hit with mutiple stall calls last night maybe to the point of a DQ, but somewhat inexplicably gave just enough to get none. Sasso did not impress for a #1 as well. I wouldn't be surprised at 0 points here.

It's all that disrespectful or just observing the facts as I can see them. As with Meredith I totally respect the commitment and sacrifice Verk has made to represent our team, and I will still go into each match cheering him on hopping he will simply let it go and get some offense.

157 - not much comment here. We are blessed to have him back on the mat, and anything he can give us indeed a blessing. He could get a bad draw at Bigs and might deliver anything from 0-somewhere in the teens. Let's sit back and enjoy his journey, he seems to be healthy and has a future so all is good.

197 - much like Berge above. He is definitely progressing, but still looks light years from 2018. I haven't seen even one cradle yet. I think we are blessed if he can eke out an AA, but I am not calling for Beards shirt. I see 0-8ish points, anything more is icing on the cake.

HWT - an enigma. He had as strong a resume as any and a full grey shirt year in the room. He looks like a kid who is getting beat by Cassar and Kirk daily to the point here has lost his confidence. Gable broke him mentally (as if he wouldn't break all of us) and yesterday's match if you are honest was just so deflating. Vs a RS freshman 2nd string nobody kid with whom you have a 40 pounds advantage? Come on Seth you are a 4x state champ who has been in the PSU room long enough to know you belong. He looked solid the first period and then....? Maybe (probably) he did hurt his knee so we must grant him that., but he definitely has a pattern of late match fading that will kill him in the tourney. It could be many things but he seems like a kid whose dream of a career in blue and white may have been taken away. On paper he should be tearing it up with everyone not named Gable, Mason and Cass and we saw some indications earlier in the season, but to me he does not look like the same kid mentally. The difference was on display, a 220 lb gas tank Garry has all of the confidence in the world right now and shows it against all comers, Seth looks like he doesn't believe in himself especially in the 3rd period when all wrestlers get tired. I know this is a bit harsh but he could be anywhere from 0- AA points if he gets his mind right. I still think he will have a better career than his brother Nick when all is said and done.

So in summary we could see 0 points worst case from all 5, but to be honest who gives a shit. Cael has and will continue to give us the best sports fan platform on the planet including all sports right now. His is a legend, the team is awesome, we may or may not do it this year, but I am 100% confident we will win another NC within 3 years and multiples thereafter. I honestly hope our kids don't read these boards but if they do they should know we love being fans of each and every one of them and feel blessed to have the honor to sit on the sidelines, overweight with or better days behind us, talking about what they do. If we talk shit about you ignore it and listen to Cael.

You need to figure out how to make money per word.

Unless this is therapeutic for ya....
 
Partly Sunny or Partly Cloudy.
I don’t think anyone is commenting on anyone as an individual; I certainly know nothing about them.
The comments are about their public selves, and having done only a little bit of wrestling, I don’t see how anyone can question effort.
Some people have more innate talent than others, and some people do more with their innate talent than others.
That’s life as I see it.
 
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This board has taught me one thing for certain: There are many different kinds of penn state wrestling fans. I’m just not the kind that is going to get too bent out of shape in a year where we have a shot at NCAA finalists in half the weight classes and committed, team first, role players in the others. Doesn’t even matter that a rival has a better shot at the title really. Do I want Iowa to win? Hell nah. But I love our team, from the psychologist to the trainer, to the coaches, to the whole dang roster.
 
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RBY, Lee, Verk & Brooks all getting better before our eyes. Shak getting better too, just needs confidence in his shot. Brandon continues to fight, hard. Berge, just glad he is back and able to scrap. Seth is doing as expected when he was thrust into this crappy situation.

Hall and Joseph will be 4x finalists.........all time college wrestling greats.

If someone is better than this team, congrats to them, but you are going to have to be at your very best in March to beat us. PSU will be better a month from now. CS always has his team peaking at the right time.
Shak is not getting any better. Otherwise a solid post
 
This thread is interesting after my drive back to Erie from State College. I was driving with my buddy that wrestled for Clarion behind Don Rohn. He was showing me pictures of him, Bob Bubb, and Gary Barton from a reunion a few weeks ago. He was reminiscing about Gary Barton's improbable run to an NCAA title. The kid comes out of Fairview High School never getting beyond districts. He goes to Clarion where he makes the NCAA field with an at-large unseeded spot. He then makes a run to the title at 134 pounds.
I can be sure of this. Verk, Berge, and Shak are more accomplished wrestlers that Gary Barton was. Any of these guys could make a similar run at these weights. I have faith in this program and the guys Cael puts on the mat. I'll be in Minneapolis Thursday morning full of optimism that we will catch lightning in a bottle. If not, it will be a ton of fun cheering on the boys in blue and white!
 
This thread is interesting after my drive back to Erie from State College. I was driving with my buddy that wrestled for Clarion behind Don Rohn. He was showing me pictures of him, Bob Bubb, and Gary Barton from a reunion a few weeks ago. He was reminiscing about Gary Barton's improbable run to an NCAA title. The kid comes out of Fairview High School never getting beyond districts. He goes to Clarion where he makes the NCAA field with an at-large unseeded spot. He then makes a run to the title at 134 pounds.
I can be sure of this. Verk, Berge, and Shak are more accomplished wrestlers that Gary Barton was. Any of these guys could make a similar run at these weights. I have faith in this program and the guys Cael puts on the mat. I'll be in Minneapolis Thursday morning full of optimism that we will catch lightning in a bottle. If not, it will be a ton of fun cheering on the boys in blue and white!
Good point.

Also a reminder: we are now in the midst of the same 7-day stretch in which Quentin Wright, coming off injury, lost to Dallago, got majored by Steinhaus, and got pinned by Rutt.

Point being, there is predecent for significant improvement between now and nationals.
 
Yea, I don't think he has taken an offensive shot all year against a ranked wrestler. If some of you get pissed off about criticism read Cael's quotes from last night.

BTW where can I find Cael's post match comments?

I see soundbites on some news sites but can't find his whole commentary.
 
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BTW where can I find Cael's psy match comments?

I see soundbites on some news sites but can't find his whole commentary.
I think the reference was to quote in CDT
https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article240326636.html

“I don’t think we wrestled great tonight,” Sanderson said. “I don’t think that’s any secret. Our guys that are consistent were consistent. Our guys that haven’t been consistent, weren’t consistent. We need those guys that haven’t been consistent to just kind of step it up a little bit if we want to compete for a national title. We’re right there, when you go up and down the lineup, we’ve just got to keep moving forward and stay positive.
 
This thread is interesting after my drive back to Erie from State College. I was driving with my buddy that wrestled for Clarion behind Don Rohn. He was showing me pictures of him, Bob Bubb, and Gary Barton from a reunion a few weeks ago. He was reminiscing about Gary Barton's improbable run to an NCAA title. The kid comes out of Fairview High School never getting beyond districts. He goes to Clarion where he makes the NCAA field with an at-large unseeded spot. He then makes a run to the title at 134 pounds.
I can be sure of this. Verk, Berge, and Shak are more accomplished wrestlers that Gary Barton was. Any of these guys could make a similar run at these weights. I have faith in this program and the guys Cael puts on the mat. I'll be in Minneapolis Thursday morning full of optimism that we will catch lightning in a bottle. If not, it will be a ton of fun cheering on the boys in blue and white!

A lot more accomplished wrestlers today than in Gary Barton's era.
 
Good point.

Also a reminder: we are now in the midst of the same 7-day stretch in which Quentin Wright, coming off injury, lost to Dallago, got majored by Steinhaus, and got pinned by Rutt.

Point being, there is predecent for significant improvement between now and nationals.

Quentin Wright had been an All-American in his true freshman year and was a world class wrestler dealing with injury. There really isn't a legit comparison to someone else on our roster now, even Rasheed.
 
I think the reference was to quote in CDT
https://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article240326636.html

“I don’t think we wrestled great tonight,” Sanderson said. “I don’t think that’s any secret. Our guys that are consistent were consistent. Our guys that haven’t been consistent, weren’t consistent. We need those guys that haven’t been consistent to just kind of step it up a little bit if we want to compete for a national title. We’re right there, when you go up and down the lineup, we’ve just got to keep moving forward and stay positive.


Somewhat generic, but I also found this specific to Jarod.

"If you can go take on the No. 1 guy in the country in overtime you can definitely be an All-American and be in the mix there,” Sanderson said. “So, hopefully after coming off of last weekend and now this weekend, he knows that and believes it.”

I agree. He needs to shoot, let go of the consequences, and trust his instincts to take over. Waiting for the perfect opportunity virtually never happens. I will love it if Cael gets him in the right mindset to AA.
 
A lot more accomplished wrestlers today than in Gary Barton's era.
That’s true. But most of us enter bracket pools for NCAAs. I follow wrestling obsessively and usually my bracket is busted before Friday night. When the number 15 guy is going to SV with the number one (and no one is surprised), what does that tell you about that weight and the tournament? Anything can happen at 149, 157, and 197 save Kollin Moore. There are no can’t lose guys in those weights.
 
That’s true. But most of us enter bracket pools for NCAAs. I follow wrestling obsessively and usually my bracket is busted before Friday night. When the number 15 guy is going to SV with the number one (and no one is surprised), what does that tell you about that weight and the tournament? Anything can happen at 149, 157, and 197 save Kollin Moore. There are no can’t lose guys in those weights.
Deakin and Hidlay and maybe Carr at 157 are a notch above. But the other weights are wide open
 
Berge is a world class wrestler dealing with injury.

Agree. 100% healthy Berge this year would probably place 4-5 at NCAAs. Unlikely he does that this year although I am not counting him out yet. 3 weeks to get his conditioning and confidence back for BIGs.
 
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125 Freshman 12-12 in big ten, kiss off your expectations are unrealistic. Good job Meredith

149 just beat # 12 lost to # 1 and 6 in matches he can win in future.

157 Berge is the man, give him time to get in match shape he had 4 weeks to ramp up,

197 Count Shak out you are making a mistake. He wants a National title and isn’t risking injury in seemingly meaningless duals. Like I told someone earlier an eight yo schoolgirl can take him down by his right leg today... in four weeks not so much.

285 Really freshman Will AA anything less he will be more disappointed than I.
Overall since My earlier bet was denied I place that $250 on the line. Per your op over under AAs is 5 I’ll take the over. NLWC is where you can send your check, as always Goldbanger will collect if I lose.
 
s. /QUOTE]
What do you mean by "Verk will be fine"?

Given their non-offensive styles, Verk and Sasso going to OT without a takedown didn't surprise me much. And by now we should all pretty well know how Verk wrestles and what are reasonable expectations for him.
Some people seem to have written 149 off. I don't at all. You can see definite improvement in his last 3 matches. Beat a ranked opponent last week and took the#1 and #6 kids to SV, which I suspect surprised a lot of people. And now he is ranked as well. He's not a Lee or a Nolf type wrestler, but he could definitely win some matches at NCAAs. Not sure I would have said that a month ago, but he is showing improvement and it a good possibility now..
 
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149: Verk just took the number 1 kid in the country to SV. Verk is improving and will be fine. Berge is just a little rusty. He'll be fine. Nevills , like most FR, took an unexpected loss. He'll learn from this and I hope is okay.
Are you kidding me? Mark Hall was a NC as a freshman. He didn’t lose to anyone unexpected........

Oh Wait........ ;)
 
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