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Kemerer to have season ending surgery

Horrible news. Never want to see this happen to anyone. Wishing him a full and quick recovery.

If there is a positive: at least he's taking care of it now. We've all seen too many guys try to tough it out and at best aren't themselves out there, at worst further injure themselves.
 
Smart. More valuable in 2021 than in 2019. The weight might also be cleared out by then.
 
My knee is currently torn.. Only a meniscus but workmans comp seriously delayed the surgery:rolleyes: I should be back in a matter of weeks. I can't imagine a year of rehab/physical therapy for an ACL/MCL. My heart goes out to anyone that has had to endure that mess. If Iowa loses to Pitt tonight in basketball I may just bury my head in the snow for a bit..:oops:
First Kemerer and now Turk down with an injury (they do come in threes - Stoll, Kemerer and Turk). Another Iowa guy I was looking forward to seeing in Pittsburgh in March. Take care and rehab and hopefully you are back to 120% in March, where I'll buy you a couple cold ones if you are there
 
My favorite PA Hawk. Not too surprised based on what I have been reading. Silver lining is that he should get the 6th year which is a lot better then suffering through the season with a bum knee. Probably works out better for Iowa having him in 2021 as well.
 
He seems like a good guy, hope he gets all healed up and is ready for next year.
 
Put me in the camp of those who was really looking forward to seeing Kemdawg at 174lbs this year. I thought it would have made the weight a lot more interesting.

I hope he makes a 100% recovery and gets a 6th year.
 
IIRC that was the year Gus Solomon was ranked #1 in PA but got injured in the postseason and didn't get to compete at Hershey.

Was that also the year they barely beat Becahi? Like it came down to one bout or something or a few that were decided by one takedown leading to a really narrow Franklin victory. Perhaps Becahi was still AA and I’m dreaming , maybe they meet the next year in 2016. I’ll research that

http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/game/score/2765470/
 
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Was that also the year they barely beat Becahi? Like it came down to one bout or something or a few that were decided by one takedown leading to a really narrow Franklin victory. Perhaps Becahi was still AA and I’m dreaming , maybe they meet the next year in 2016. I’ll research that

http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/game/score/2765470/
As good as FR was thru Shields at 170, they had next to nothing after him. With hindsight it's hard to believe Camacho lost at HWT to lose the dual. Especially after the emotional lift of Dunn squashing his guy at 220.

BTW, that was the semi -- FR beat Cumberland Valley 36-33 in the final -- though that dual was clinched after 195.

Almost forgot the other semi -- CV 35-33 over Belle Vernon, with Verk WBF for BV. That match should be a cautionary tale for natty duals proponents -- CV forfeited three consecutive weights (120-126-132) against BV and then wrestled all 3 guys vs. FR in the finals.
 
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As good as FR was thru Shields at 170, they had next to nothing after him. With hindsight it's hard to believe Camacho lost at HWT to lose the dual. Especially after the emotional lift of Dunn squashing his guy at 220.

BTW, that was the semi -- FR beat Cumberland Valley 36-33 in the final -- though that dual was clinched after 195.

Yes, Camacho was very tough, not Andrew Dunn, but still cant believe that one .
 
Back to Kemerer -- barring Olympic shirts and other 6th year guys, 165 and 174 almost completely empty out after 2020. Gotta think a fully recovered Kemerer would be favored at 174 in 2021.

An all-PA top 3 of Kemerer, Labriola, and Trent Hidlay would not surprise me at all. Wittlake probably contends if he stays at 174. Wick or Mekhi Lewis or maybe Anthony Valencia if they move up.
 
Anyone know if this is the same leg that was bothering him last year?
 
Flo reports he will seek a med year.... I was wondering if he would want to stick around college for a 6th year but I guess when you have that much talent you want to compete and fulfill goals.
 
Injuries are the worst. Can't imagine the feelings of a guy late in his career. They have put so much in that a years setback could be devastating. Wish him the best
 
He will definitely get a medical. That is a no brainer for this year. He easily meets the participation criteria for this and documentation is no issue as he is getting surgery (not that it would have been anyway).

What will let him compete for his fourth year is being granted a 6th (or 7th - that has been granted before, although I don't think in wrestling) year of eligibility. This is done by committee review and criteria is basically missing two or more years due to hardship under circumstances beyond the athletes control. The italicized is the critical factor. Here are some examples:
Circumstances considered beyond the control of the student-athlete include, but are not limited to, the following:
1. Situations clearly supported by contemporaneous medical documentation, which states that a student-athlete is unable to participate in intercollegiate competition as a result of incapacitating physical or mental circumstances;
2. The student-athlete is unable to participate in intercollegiate athletics as a result of a life-threatening or incapacitating injury or illness suffered by a member of the student-athlete’s immediate family, which clearly is supported by contemporaneous medical documentation;
3. Reliance by the student-athlete upon written, contemporaneous, clearly erroneous academic advice provided to the student-athlete from a specific academic authority from a collegiate institution regarding the academic status of the student-athlete or prospective student-athlete, which directly leads to that individual not being eligible to participate and, but for the clearly erroneous advice, the student-athlete would have established eligibility for intercollegiate competition;
4. Natural disasters (e.g., flood, earthquake); and
5. Extreme financial difficulties as a result of a specific event (e.g., layoff, death in the family) experienced by the student-athlete or by an individual upon whom the student-athlete is legally dependent, which prohibit the student-athlete from participating in intercollegiate athletics. These circumstances must be clearly supported by objective documentation and must be beyond the control of the student-athlete or the individual upon whom the student-athlete is legally dependent.


Unfortunately, redshirt is specifically identified as not qualifying under this criteria. Again, some examples:

Circumstances considered to be within the control of the student-athlete or the institution include, but are not limited to, the following:
1. A student-athlete’s decision to attend an institution that does not sponsor his/her sport, or decides not to participate at the institution that does sponsor his/her sport;
2. An inability to participate due to failure to meet institutional/conference or NCAA academic requirements, or disciplinary reasons or incarceration culminating in or resulting from a conviction;
3. Reliance by a student-athlete upon misinformation from a coaching staff member;
4. Redshirt year;
5. An inability to participate as a result of a transfer year in residence or fulfilling a condition for restoration of eligibility; and
6. A student-athlete’s lack of understanding regarding the specific starting date of his/her five-year period of eligibility.

Fortunately, the committee is not bound by the above and is free to consider cases on an individual basis (12.8.1.5.1 ...The Committee on Student-Athlete
Reinstatement reserves the right to review requests that do not meet the more-than-one-year criteria detailed) .
But above is basically their guidelines. Recently, it seems that the committee is a bit more lax in granting the sixth year, but Kemerer will still have to make an argument for circumstances beyond his control for his first year. Likewise, PSU is in the same boat with Cassar, specifically, not being enrolled is not a hardship outside of his control and he is likely going to have to provide documentation of an incapacitating injury.

So, slam dunk it is not. But I wouldn't consider it unlikely at this point. Honestly, who knows what the deal will be two years from now anyway? It certainly won't be more restrictive.

You can take this back to the HR if you like and educate some of the uneducated HR stalwarts who like to spout with authority. (Sorry, don't really want you to, but had to throw in an HR jab just for you).

And hoping for a speedy recovery for Mike as he is far and away my favorite Hawk and a great representative of PA. Hopefully we will see him in 2020 and 2021.
The NCAA has been more lax, yes, but there has to have been some injury in the redshirt year and unless Kemdog was injured in that year the 6th year seems unlikely. The rule of thumb was 2 years lost to injury to get the 6h year.
 
Guys - I am an Iowa fan that came here for the first time to see the reactions on Kem (curiosity). I am so happy to find out that you guys are quite classy and we (I) appreciate it very much. Wishing you guys a great season with some fun rivalry.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the young man, I really enjoyed watching him wrestle.

Great post but you can't say f** on here.
 
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The NCAA has been more lax, yes, but there has to have been some injury in the redshirt year and unless Kemdog was injured in that year the 6th year seems unlikely. The rule of thumb was 2 years lost to injury to get the 6h year.
The Ashnault 6th year seems to imply there is no rule of thumb. I am fairly certain in Ashnault's redshirt year he wrestled on the fall semester and again competed in some sort of tournament(s) towards the end of the regular season. Kind of tough to argue missed due to to injury.

The Ashnault ruling should make almost every petition dang near automatic if for no other reason than precedent and lawsuit.
 
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Back to Kemerer -- barring Olympic shirts and other 6th year guys, 165 and 174 almost completely empty out after 2020. Gotta think a fully recovered Kemerer would be favored at 174 in 2021.

An all-PA top 3 of Kemerer, Labriola, and Trent Hidlay would not surprise me at all. Wittlake probably contends if he stays at 174. Wick or Mekhi Lewis or maybe Anthony Valencia if they move up.

A darn shame anytime someone gets hurt, but maybe a blessing in disguise for both Kemerer and the hawks.
 
The Ashnault 6th year seems to imply there is no rule of thumb. I am fairly certain in Ashnault's redshirt year he wrestled on the fall semester and again competed in some sort of tournament(s) towards the end of the regular season. Kind of tough to argue missed due to to injury.

The Ashnault ruling should make almost every petition dang near automatic if for no other reason than precedent and lawsuit.
Phillippi went 25-8 at Virginia in 2017, 17-3 at Pitt in 2018, and has 4 years left.
 
The Ashnault 6th year seems to imply there is no rule of thumb. I am fairly certain in Ashnault's redshirt year he wrestled on the fall semester and again competed in some sort of tournament(s) towards the end of the regular season. Kind of tough to argue missed due to to injury.

The Ashnault ruling should make almost every petition dang near automatic if for no other reason than precedent and lawsuit.
Ashnault competed at the NCO at the end of the year which is not an NCAA event.

You can likely assume that Ashnault used season ending injury in his argument to the committee. He didn't compete after November.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying he won't get it. Just saying it's more than just a wink-wink thing as some people are assuming. Kemerer will have to present a case to the committee, just like AC will have to do this year.
 
Phillippi went 25-8 at Virginia in 2017, 17-3 at Pitt in 2018, and has 4 years left.
It is bizarre in any event, since the rules are rather clear as to how the 6th year can be obtained. I can even understand giving a year if a year was partially wrestled and lost with an injury....particularly in light of the new FB redshirt participation rules. I agree with both Jefe and Nitlion that AC should have a slam dunk in light of recent precedence. Could argue NN too, actually.

Phillippi redshirted first and then transferred, so both years were wrestled in open comp. I can’t figure why he was awarded the extra year, but he was. NCAA granted QB Patterson the transfer to Michigan without sitting out. Frankly, they could rewrite the rules to accommodate situations like coaching changes and losing half a year or something to injury, or the FB redshirt participation model. Newer rules would be better than arbitrary application as it suddenly is now.

Of course the arbitrary nature allows the NCAA to seem, ummm....human. :-/ Probably what they are shooting for.
 
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Guys - I am an Iowa fan that came here for the first time to see the reactions on Kem (curiosity). I am so happy to find out that you guys are quite classy and we (I) appreciate it very much. Wishing you guys a great season with some fun rivalry.
welcome to the board-- best of luck to your hawks also---some very knowledgeable fans on both boards.
 
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welcome to the board-- best of luck to your hawks also---some very knowledgeable fans on both boards.
Fact is we all like to have villains. But nobody, no one here who has ever rolled and sweat a mat room for even a portion of their lives wants to see a competitor lost a season or career to an injury. That sucks. Period.

The mat should determine the outcome for a wrestler. Not an injury.

On the same note: Will Koll is also out for the season again. Having already suffered a hamstring injury that broke the bone away two years ago he took the mat fully healthy at 149 at the Binghamton open this year and broke his elbow in the finals. He will get a 6th year if he wants it....but a broken heart accompanies the bone here. I suspect it does in KemDawg’s case too.
 
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Fact is we all like to have villains. But nobody, no one here who has ever rolled and sweat a mat room for even a portion of their lives wants to see a competitor lost a season or career to an injury. That sucks. Period.

The mat should determine the outcome for a wrestler. Not an injury.

On the same note: Will Koll is also out for the season again. Having already suffered a hamstring injury that broke the bone away two years ago he took the mat fully healthy at 149 at the Binghamton open this year and broke his elbow in the finals. He will get a 6th year if he wants it....but a broken heart accompanies the bone here. I suspect it does in KemDawg’s case too.
In Koll's case, with the Ivy league allow a 6th year? They already have the rule in place that basically forces an athlete to un-enroll to use a redshirt year.
 
Dang that sucks for him but could actually help him out probably in that he would have a year without Hall or Z. Hopefully he recovers quickly
 
In Koll's case, with the Ivy league allow a 6th year? They already have the rule in place that basically forces an athlete to un-enroll to use a redshirt year.
If Ivy doesn't, a grad transfer could be an option if desired.
 
It is bizarre in any event, since the rules are rather clear as to how the 6th year can be obtained. I can even understand giving a year if a year was partially wrestled and lost with an injury....particularly in light of the new FB redshirt participation rules. I agree with both Jefe and Nitlion that AC should have a slam dunk in light of recent precedence. Could argue NN too, actually.

Phillippi redshirted first and then transferred, so both years were wrestled in open comp. I can’t figure why he was awarded the extra year, but he was. NCAA granted QB Patterson the transfer to Michigan without sitting out. Frankly, they could rewrite the rules to accommodate situations like coaching changes and losing half a year or something to injury, or the FB redshirt participation model. Newer rules would be better than arbitrary application as it suddenly is now.

Of course the arbitrary nature allows the NCAA to seem, ummm....human. :-/ Probably what they are shooting for.
The fact is we are unlikely to know what the rationale is in the Phillippi decision, nor the evidence presented on their side. And each case is examined individually by the committee which, as I pointed out above, has the freedom to hear cases that do not meet the multiple year threshold.

So this is always going to be a bit arbitrary, you take your chances when you go before the committee when it comes to extending eligibility. You have multiple avenues to pursue to argue a year lost to circumstances beyond your (or your institution's) control.

Where most folks get confused and put out misinformation is in equating this to a medical. Totally different and this does have specific criteria which must be met in order to be granted. We even have @smalls103 tweeting it out like it is end of story. (Sorry, Willie, you know I love you, buddy and ALL the things you do for PSU, lol) The medical IS critical, as it would establish one year lost due to physical incapacity. But that's just part of the process of getting the 6th year.

Most of this is fairly confusing mostly because of all the misinformation and half truths that our out there. But it is really not all that confusing if you take the time to research the information that the NCAA and it's member institutions have publicly available. Of course, you have to be a geek in some ways to even have the inclination to do this. Guilty as charged.
 
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The fact is we are unlikely to know what the rationale is in the Phillippi decision, nor the evidence presented on their side. And each case is examined individually by the committee which, as I pointed out above, has the freedom to hear cases that do not meet the multiple year threshold.

So this is always going to be a bit arbitrary, you take your chances when you go before the committee when it comes to extending eligibility. You have multiple avenues to pursue to argue a year lost to circumstances beyond your (or your institution's) control.

Where most folks get confused and put out misinformation is in equating this to a medical. Totally different and this does have specific criteria which must be met in order to be granted. We even have @smalls103 tweeting it out like it is end of story. (Sorry, Willie, you know I love you) The medical IS critical, as it would establish one year lost due to physical incapacity. But that's just part of the process of getting the 6th year.

Most of this is fairly confusing mostly because of all the misinformation and half truths that our out there. But it is really not all that confusing if you take the time to research the information that the NCAA and it's member institutions have publicly available. Of course, you have to be a geek in some ways to even have the inclination to do this. Guilty as charged.
Yes...and it’s the new NCAA good guy taking shape. Ash, Phillippi and Patterson don’t have a 6th year and not sitting out for Patterson if they weren’t trying to manage their image. Believe that.
 
Yes...and it’s the new NCAA good guy taking shape. Ash, Phillippi and Patterson don’t have a 6th year if they weren’t trying to manage their image. Believe that.
Good point.

One other thing I will add that works in wrestling's favor is a reminder that this committee deals with ALL sports and is not just wrestling specific. From multiple sources it appears that there is a big emphasis on contests appeared in when reviewing cases. Wrestling's redshirt years are fairly unique and it can be argued that even while wrestling in 10 or 20 or more matches, the amount of contests participated in is fairly low.
 
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Back to Kemerer -- barring Olympic shirts and other 6th year guys, 165 and 174 almost completely empty out after 2020. Gotta think a fully recovered Kemerer would be favored at 174 in 2021.

An all-PA top 3 of Kemerer, Labriola, and Trent Hidlay would not surprise me at all. Wittlake probably contends if he stays at 174. Wick or Mekhi Lewis or maybe Anthony Valencia if they move up.

Correct me if wrong...
Zahid is RS JR. Will be gone after next year, not to mention, he‘s possibly bumping anyway.
Marky is true JR, if he decides to RS, he will be top dog in 20/21.
Kem is RS JR, if he gets a sixth year in 20/21,he MAY still have to get past Wreck.
 
If Ivy doesn't, a grad transfer could be an option if desired.
True and quite honestly, Koll may have difficulty breaking into the Cornell lineup. OTOH, when you keep getting injured, your body might be telling you its time to get on with your life.
 
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Correct me if wrong...
Zahid is RS JR. Will be gone after next year, not to mention, he‘s possibly bumping anyway.
Marky is true JR, if he decides to RS, he will be top dog in 20/21.
Kem is RS JR, if he gets a sixth year in 20/21,he MAY still have to get past Wreck.
All of this is true and in line with my earlier post.

While it's true that Hall could take a non-Olympic shirt, barring injury why would he?
 
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In Koll's case, with the Ivy league allow a 6th year? They already have the rule in place that basically forces an athlete to un-enroll to use a redshirt year.
The same can be done here. If I recall correctly it would be only a semester. But note he will be graduated too so.... those rules apply.
 
Really wanted to see Kemerer against Hall this year. He's hands down my favorite Iowa wrestler. He does seem to be injury prone though which makes it hard to project out to 2021 in he does get that sixth year.
 
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Most of this is fairly confusing mostly because of all the misinformation and half truths that our out there. But it is really not all that confusing if you take the time to research the information that the NCAA and it's member institutions have publicly available. Of course, you have to be a geek in some ways to even have the inclination to do this. Guilty as charged.
Guilty too, I guess. Cover-to-cover, many times.

I like having rules, as it's chaos without them, so in that way, the NCAA Rulebook is a good thing. The Hardship Waiver and Five-Year Rule Waiver, along with other exceptions and waivers are not a bad read...12 pages, or so.

If I had a complaint, it would be the lack of transparency. The language is unchanged, yet the perception (real or not) is that the application of the rules by the Committee for Reinstatement has changed. Without sharing info protected by privacy rules, the NCAA could easily, one would think, make a short statement noting any subtle changes in how they are applying the rules. And I do believe it's subtle. The rules are what the rules are.
 
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