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Looks like the German plan was a suicide by the co-pilot

Interesting that the French prosecutor is so certain it was deliberate.

Normal breathing, pushed button to set it on the course, but it seems that was several minutes before the crash. Somehow they are ruling out that he fainted, and it is not clear how. Seems like fainting would account for all the facts.

Of course, intentional mass murder is more spectacular than fainting and a terrible accident.
 
The black box shows that the co-pilot put the plane in a deliberate

descent.
 
That certainly mkes it more likely that it was a deliberate crashing of the

plane, but could there not be reasons to program a descent for a brief time, then program out of it? If so, and he faints in the meantime, the descent continues, right? Maybe there is a good explanation, but it sure is not clear from this explanation by the prosecutor--at least the part which has been quoted.
 
Might turn out to be like Egyptair 990 -- a 1999 crash off the US coast where the pilot intentionally crashed the plane. In that case the best explanation was revenge.


good account of flight 990
 
The issue is that he didn't get clearance and why would...

he do that when the pilot was taking a leak?

that said, I sort of agree with you on other points., No guarantee this was deliberate. He may have felt faint and panicked that the cabin pressure was off. Then passed out.

LdN
 
turn on any news station CNBC, CNN, Bloomberg etc, all talking about it,


Lufthansa CEO speaking right now.
 
I just heard the same thing on the news. there is a code you can enter


from o/s if the door is locked. Unless the code has been disabled from inside by the personnel in the cockpit, the code will open the door. It appears that the pilot his the code and door did not open, meaning co-pilot had DISABLED it. that gets us a whole lot closer to deliberate.
 
I am looking for the data point that shows the co-pilot intentionally....


...activated a decent.

I am not watching TV atm. I just am asking what is the data point that proves that he did it. Perhaps I was misinformed, but I thought that the only black box they have right now is the voice recorder. Or is is a voice recorder and altitude control recorder?

I realize the prosecutor SAYS he did, but that seems light on facts to me. And, I realize everybody was running with what the prosecutor said. If there is more information being revealed as I type this, I will have to wait until it hits the web.
 
CVR recovered, FDR has not been recovered... two seperate devices


I heard they found the COVER of the Flight Data Recorder, but its contents were among the strewn debris.... whereas the Cockpit Voice Recorder was fount damaged but intact (obviously)
 
Re: I just heard the same thing on the news. there is a code you can enter


here's some wild wild speculation for you to chew on...

Captain leaves the cockpit to drain-the-dragon...

Co-pilot with a hideous death-wish maliciously disables the pilot's re-access code... as the captain is beating on the door to re-enter the co-pilot (falsely) alerts the cabin over the PA system that the man trying to enter the cockpit is an imposter and to rise up and stop him.... only to continue on his horrific course into the ground


something tells me the audio is quite horrifying and will be kept from public release...
 
Just a hunch, they know a bit more than you and

are not releasing it all to everyone right now. It's cute to play devils advocate once in a while, but I'd tend to think they aren't blowing smoke up your arse on this one.
 
Here is one...I don't know the publication but this is the story

most, including CNN are going with:


The horrifying full account of the planes' final 10 minutes were confirmed by Marseilles prosecutor Bryce Robin at a press conference today


He told reporters: "We have managed to get the transcript of the last 30 minutes.
"In the first 20 minutes the pilots talk in a normal fashion being courteous with each other like two normal pilots during a flight.
"Then we hear the command asking the co-pilot to take over and we hear the sound of a chair being pushed back and a door closing. So we assume that he went to the loo or something.
"So the copilot at that moment is on his own in charge of the plane and it's while hes alone... that he uses the flight monitoring system which starts the descent of the aeroplane.
 
Just a note--I was not saying I thought they were blowing smoke.

I was saying that based on the facts I could not see how they ruled out fainting. Turns out there is an explanation of how the locking cabin door works that makes it a lot more likely that it was deliberate. Posted it below. I was curious how they were ruling it out, and now something which the news orgs were NOT saying has come out this morning. Pretty simple process: curiosity, questions, answers.
 
Re: Here is one...I don't know the publication but this is the story


Understand. Just want to see the data.

Where I am coming from: In our case here, we have a prosecutor who said C/S/S were guilty of conspiracy. Most of us do not believe it, due to lack of evidence of same.

In the instant case, a prosecutor says the co-pilot intentionally activated a control. However, I do not yet see the data point that could be considered evidence that the prosecutor is correct. That is all I am asking for. (Unlike our case, this prosecutor has not yet devised a motive that he can make everybody believe....yet.)

So, it is far from outside the realm of possibility that this here prosecutor is completely fos. He might be right, but at the moment he may well be completely fos. I am sure he feels it is a gamble worth risking, given what he does know so far.





This post was edited on 3/26 11:24 AM by Ten Thousan Marbles
 
Big question I have.....No cell phone contact?.....


Maybe already answered publicly. Or maybe not yet answered publicly, but answer known by authorities. Or, maybe no cell phone involvement.

If not, why not? Why didn't the locked out pilot or the flight crew or a passenger make some kind of cell phone contact to alert officials to the problem?
 
Have you ever been on a plane? I suppose not. Cell phone towers...

don't connect 5 miles in the air. Nor 1 mile in the air which is about where the impact was made.

At best within 2k feet.

LdN
 
its a good question....reports are that the passengers

were probably not aware of what was going on. Plus, it was in the middle of the alps.
 
That can't be right

We all know Flight 93 passengers made lots of calls.
 
Goering calls for investigation

into Luftwaffe crash.

seriously, a terrible incident. Lots of hard work ahead
 
"I insist we keep our eyes tightly shut until the trial takes place."

"Uh, there wont be a trial, he's dead."

"Well, in that case we can never know what happened."
 
Re: Lets pretend they can make a call- what is anyone on the ground

Do?

Why, I imagine that one thing they might "do" is find our more about what was happening as it was happening.

Seem kind of obvious, no?
 
All about altitude. Calls over 8k feet are all but impossible...

the towers just don't project signal that direction.

Additionally in 2001 perhaps phones sent more powerful signals.

However if you have a phone and you leave it on nothing comes in or goes oiut until you approach 1k ft.

LdN
 
That's because he has access to all of the facts.

And based on the way the course is set on an Airbus 320, there is a 99.9% chance he didn't hit it in a fainting spell.

Death by pilot, horrible tragedy.
 
Hang on a minute....


I want to make sure that I have this down right before going further.

Yesterday, we were told that the fact that the plane did not change course proved it could be intentional and not mechanical.

Today, the fact that the plane did not change course is proof that it was intentional.

Actually consistent conclusion. However, it seems to me that there are other possibilities why the plane did not change course. I think they need to be ruled out.

If I am flying to LA, I do not want to crash, but I do want my plane to keep flying towards the west coast.
This post was edited on 3/26 11:59 AM by Ten Thousan Marbles
 
Re: Do you think the pilot is going to answer?

That right there leads me to believe that you are just not following.

What?
 
A few points

Not sure of all the procedures when one pilot leaves the cockpit, but I suspect that it is significant that the pilot was unable to get back in to the cabin. Unless it is SOP to lock that door when one pilot leaves, so that the outside pilot must necessarily rely on the inside pilot to get back in (highly unlikely), the conclusion would be that the co-pilot intentionally locked out the commanding pilot.

Also, my understanding is that a button or switch was affirmatively activated in order to start the sharp descent. The clear assumption is that that did not happen accidentally. In fact, the prosecutor said it could only be done voluntarily and intentionally.

This is the report of an investigating prosecutor, not a journalist. Creating a "more spectacular" story is of no benefit to the prosecutor.

This post was edited on 3/26 12:02 PM by lobo lion
 
I think what they are getting at is the sort of thing where

a PASSENGER calls someone on the ground and tells them the pilot is beating on the cockpit door and the plane is descending.
 
Ok, the call goes through. The passenger tells 911 that, then what happens?

psu
 
Don't need an investigation or facts.

Just blame it on the dead guy.
 
It gets recorded and we have more data about what happened.

WTF?
 
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