Looks like the German plan was a suicide by the co-pilot

[lobo lion]

Re: Lets pretend they can make a call- what is anyone on the ground

The issue isn't whether people on the ground could have, or would have, done anything. The burning question is whether any communication was attempted, regardless of what the response would have been. If none was attempted, why not?

 

[demlion]

Since the "suspect" is dead what difference does it even make to

the prosecutor except that he gets to have a press conference? Linda Kelly like giving pressers, and so did Marsha Clark and lots of other prosecutors. Makes 'em worldwide famous.

 

[cjrugger]

The guy crashed the plane


Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin, citing information from the "black box" voice recorder, said the co-pilot was alone in the cockpit.
He intentionally started a descent while the pilot was locked out.

Mr Robin said there was "absolute silence in the cockpit" as the pilot fought to re-enter it.

He said air traffic controllers made repeated attempts to contact the aircraft, but to no avail. Passengers could be heard screaming just before the crash, he added

Back to the point: the reason this isn't a 'BIG QUESTION' is we don't need a cell phone call to confirm this

 

[PSUSignore]

These are my thoughts as well

Apparently in the US airlines are required to have 2 people in the cockpit at all times. If the captain has to use the bathroom, a flight attendant goes inside until he returns. I also commonly see them block the cabin door with the food cart when this happens but I'm not sure if that is SOP. However, in other countries they don't have this rule, so apparently it wasn't a violation for the copilot to be alone in the cockpit. I suspect this rule will become a global requirement if it is confirmed that this was an intentional act by the copilot.

Also, if you watch the video that was posted, it seems there is an override for the door that is activated from the cockpit. The pilot can get in without assistance via a passcode, but he can also be locked out from inside, passcode or not. Having 2 people there would help to mitigate this risk, but in this case we know there was only one person. Also, the lockout for the door only works for a timed 5 minutes, then it would have to be pressed again. This seems to indicate that the copilot was conscious and this was intentional, because otherwise the pilot would have been able to gain entry 5 minutes after one attempt to keep him out, or an accidental pressing of the lever and a subsequent medical issue (e.g., unconscious copilot). There are audible buzzers when people enter the code from outside, I'd be curious to hear if that was on the voice recorder and what it tells us.

The buzzers, in conjunction with the flight data recorder (if it logs the door and lockout activity) will be very telling as to what happened. If you hear the buzzer from the pilot entering the code multiple times, and the lockout lever is pressed multiple times, I'd think we can draw a pretty firm conclusion that this was intentional.

Edit - BTW, I think the buzzer audio indicating a door code was entered is absolutely vital. What if nobody on board, including the pilot, knew the passcode to the door? This is one scenario where I could imagine a tragic accident. The pilot leaves, the copilot starts a descent for some valid reason and passes out immediately thereafter. Now the copilot is unable to change the flight path and the pilot is locked out because he doesn't know the code. Extremely rare likelihood, but a possibility.
This post was edited on 3/26 12:25 PM by PSUSignore

 

[EMCLION]

+1

****

 

[PSUSignore]

Probably not many towers or good coverage in the mountains

I don't disagree, phone calls could provide additional data points but the terrain and altitude would likely severely limit the ability for calls to go through.

The flight crew likely worked to calm passengers and mask what was going on as much as possible (e.g., pull the curtain over the front galley), given that it would do nothing but create a panic on the plane. Those towards the front of the plane likely knew what was happening. They could probably hear and/or see the pilot frantically trying to get back inside the cockpit. I can't imagine what it was like to be in their shoes. Those final moments had to be absolutely terrifying.

 

[Fayette_LION]

Just a word of caution, we all know how prosecutors talk

before they have the facts. Remember Linda Kelly and Louie Freeh. We should wait and allow for recovery of the flight recorder. It looks suspicious but I will never believe prosecutors speak the truth.

 

[TPSU_Lion]

can we just drop the cell phone call argument?

Cellular signal is useless above 2,000' AGL. Now, the only leap of faith possible for pax to ground communication would be having wifi on board and sending an email or iMessage. Bring it was a value carrier, I doubt wifi was available. No frills.

Sounds like the shit hit the fan in a short period of time. During a nose dive directly toward the face of a mountain, I would imagine nobody immediately grabbed their phones to start sending a distress signal or a documentary as to what was happening in real time. Plummeting towards the earth at 800 knots, doubt you can even mumble a sentence.

 

[Obliviax]

right...but, this isn't the same thing

this is the voice recorder showing this guy had to, almost certainly, disengage the auto pilot while the other captain was out of the cockpit. In addition, another crew member is supposed to be in the cockpit so he's not alone. The guy is dead so its not like there's a conviction to be had for another medal to be pinned on his/her lapel.

I see no motivation for them to make stuff up and, if he/she did make stuff up, its going to be pretty quickly refuted via the voice recorder.

It appears that something could have happened that was odd and unforeseen. But the evidence is pretty darn strong that this was a purposeful act.

 

[Obliviax]

It was also over the most rugged of the Alps, for the most part

and I doubt they build too many cell phone towers in mostly uninhabited mountainous regions. 1) there are few people to pay for cell service to get a return and 2) mountains severely limit the capabilities, carry, of cell towers again, mitigating financial return.

 

[lobo lion]

I would think

that, even though the prime suspect is dead, authorities want to know if others were involved. I think the prosecutors office became involved when newly-discovered evidence suggested the possibility of criminal conduct, rather than simple mechanical error or negligence. It's not a matter of "getting to have" a press conference, but of informing an understandably scared and curious world of the latest results of the ongoing investigation.

 

[PSUJim]

Seriously Ten, WHAT do you think that would have done????


if someone made the decision to nose-dive a plane with 150 people on board - and carried it out - what the heck do you think making cell-phone contact would have done??????? Once he started the dive, and the pilot could not enter the cockpit, the entire situation was screwed. Unless the ground control could somehow override the plane (which they can't) there is literally nothing anyone outside of the plane could do.

 

[lattydaddy]

Re: its a good question....reports are that the passengers

Originally posted by Obliviax:
were probably not aware of what was going on. Plus, it was in the middle of the alps.

I'd imagine they knew SOMETHING was terribly wrong when the captain was trying to knock down the cockpit door while the plane is descending. You can put 2 and 2 together without screaming. God bless those victims. This is simply heartbreaking.

This post was edited on 3/26 2:48 PM by lattydaddy

 

[LafayetteBear]

Re: Probably not many towers or good coverage in the mountains

Originally posted by PSUSignore:

Those towards the front of the plane likely knew what was happening. They could probably hear and/or see the pilot frantically trying to get back inside the cockpit. I can't imagine what it was like to be in their shoes. Those final moments had to be absolutely terrifying.

THIS ^^^^ is the mental image that sticks with me concerning this tragedy. God bless those poor souls.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Clarification on "nose dive" talking points I see in this thread....

Two or three commenters in this thread have included the term "nose dive" in there descriptions of what they think happened. I am not seeing that in any of the news reports I am looking at, but I am certainly not looking everywhere

Where does that come from?

Who has issued a statement describing a nose dive?

Link much appreciated in advance. But, I promise not to hold my breath.

 

[Aoshiro]

Re: Big question I have.....No cell phone contact?.....

Originally posted by Ten Thousan Marbles:

Maybe already answered publicly. Or maybe not yet answered publicly, but answer known by authorities. Or, maybe no cell phone involvement.

If not, why not? Why didn't the locked out pilot or the flight crew or a passenger make some kind of cell phone contact to alert officials to the problem?

You seem to lack a clear understanding of the topography of that area.

The only phone that's going to work there would be a sat phone. There aren't many people who carry one of those around.

 

[demlion]

So you issue a statement that says the evidence shows

it was deliberate, and we will be continuing our investigation. No need for a press conference.

 

[PSUJim]

Really, did you bother looking at......

the headline of Fox News????? Whether you want to call it death dive or nose dive, the freaking guy pointed the plane at the ground which was not going to end well.......

"French official: Co-pilot locked pilot out of cockpit, plunged jet into death dive"

 

[demlion]

This reads like it took ten minutes between

keying the descent and the crash.




The first 20 minutes of conversation between the pilot and co-pilot was amicable, then the co-pilot took over when the pilot left to make a "natural call".

At this point, the co-pilot accelerated the plane's descent using the keys of the monitoring system. The prosecutor described it as a "deliberate" action.

In the remaining 10 minutes there are a number of appeals by the pilot to get access to the cockpit but there was no access, the prosecutor said. The pilot knocks on the door but there is not response. There is the sound of breathing from the co-pilot until impact.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/26/germanwings-plane-crash-investigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525#block-5513f17ee4b0e0f650bb173e

 

[DandyDonII]

Apparently the guy wiped his facebook page two days ago. This was no accident.

 

[demlion]

10 minutes after he keyed the descent to the crash, it looks like


the plane would have traveled 75 miles in this "nosedive."

 

[sfcjj23]

if true is homicide, not suicide*

nfm

 

[Fayette_LION]

I don't disagree Obli.....but remember the strong testimony

of sounds of sex. Sex that may not or did not occur except in the mind of MM. Is the prosecutor hearing what he wants to hear? It appears to be a mass murder and suicide or terrorism but I'm leery of prosecutors.

 

[demlion]

Can you mumble a sentence in TEN MINUTES?*


&*

 

[DandyDonII]

After watching the theatrics of your central pa. Prosecutors and the drama with your AG office, I can understand your negative views on prosecutors. However, most of us prosecutors just seek to enforce the law. I go to bed each night with a clean conscience in regards to my work, I try to keep bad guys in prison and make sure innocent guys are not put in prison. In my experience, most prosecutors act in the same manner.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Re: 10 minutes after he keyed the descent to the crash, it looks like


Yuh. Seriously wondering about the reading comprehension history of some of our folks. Well, people in general these days.

This stuff is not that hard.

Yet, they insult others anyway.....with confidence.
This post was edited on 3/26 3:21 PM by Ten Thousan Marbles

 

[Cosmos]

Theatrics aside, my experience with...

you and your ilk is you are all ambulance chasers and used car salesmen. Hardly what makes a country great. Comes as no surprise to me that you sleep well at night. All is good is your world. For now anyway.

 

[DandyDonII]

Re: Theatrics aside, my experience with...


Hey now, no insulting my late grandfather now....(he was a car dealer in Lock Haven for years). He would probably hate being lumped together with attorneys as well.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Clarification on "nose dive" talking points I see in this thread....

Well let's just call it a controlled crash. I mean WTF! Why split hairs over semantics. The dude had a death wish and chose to share it with as many people as he could.

You know, while the deaths are tragic it's interesting watching the main stream media gnash its teeth and wring its hands over this most "disturbing" of circumstances and that is, how can a "normal" person ( i.e. a pilot) go kamikaze and crash a commercial airliner into a mountainside! More than once reporters have referred to it as "disturbing." And so let the stupid questions begin. To the Lufthansa CEO...
1. How can this happen?
2. Do you properly vet your pilots?
3. Did this pilot show signs of depression?
4. When either the pilot or copilot leave the flight deck why not adopt the American model of putting the head steward in the flight deck in order to monitor and suggest course corrections? BTW, I find this protocol amusing.
5. Why, why, why??

Instead of looking for faults in the copilot maybe the press should look at Western society at large. Specifically, what drove him to do it. I know, we cannot do that for it would be even more disturbing if we uncover the truth. After all, "It can't be us, it must be him. He must have problems." How tragic.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Re: Clarification on "nose dive" talking points I see in this thread....


I don't disagree.

What we have here is a guy who has been convicted by the masses without a motive being described.

I can be won over pretty quickly if a reasonable motive is put forth....even if it is just deep depression. However, we have yet to here anybody say he was acting oddly in recent weeks.....and early reports have been the opposite of that.

People are trying to find a motive....both law enforcement and the press. We shall see what they find.


And, it indeed does look like this plane lost altitude gradually...not in a nose dive. I don't see how having people saying it was a nose dive gets us to the why of it any quicker. On the other hand, if a guy is sitting there in the cockpit just watching the plane get close to the ground.....that tells us something about how he was thinking, imho.

If he did this thing.

A motive would help me get to: he did it.
This post was edited on 3/26 7:14 PM by Ten Thousan Marbles