Looks like we dodged a bullet with Reese Leitao (link)....
- Thread starter Pocono Lion
- Start date
This happens not infrequently - you're prescribed a painkiller, you have leftover pills after you recover and you try to make a little bit of money off of them rather than throwing them in the garbage or abusing them yourself. Unfortunate, stupid decision for the kid to make, but I wouldn't say what he did was serious enough to call it "dodging a bullet" IMO.
Don't mean to hijack the OP, but wanted to share the problem with excessively prescribed meds.
Many know about my son's recent (Jan 4) back surgery. We were instructed about using the pain killers and muscle relaxants, then given the prescription. We did not realize until we were home with the scripts what was prescribed.
Percocet - oxycodone and acepaminophen - 100 tablets
Tizandidine HCL - 45 tablets
Now, when a 17-year old says to his parents, this is how abuse starts; why would they prescribe so many?, you have to ask why a doctor would prescribe so many. Our discussion was why not 25 and have a one-time refill? If you needed more, you would need to see the surgeon.
He doesn't need them anymore and used maybe 20 - 24 Percocet and a handful of muscle relaxers. But, again, why 100 and 45 at a pop? Talked with a Deputy Sheriff who is a friend and he said Percocet sells for $20 a piece on the street.
IMO the doctors need to shoulder some of the blame for the abuse of prescribed drugs out there.
OL
Many know about my son's recent (Jan 4) back surgery. We were instructed about using the pain killers and muscle relaxants, then given the prescription. We did not realize until we were home with the scripts what was prescribed.
Percocet - oxycodone and acepaminophen - 100 tablets
Tizandidine HCL - 45 tablets
Now, when a 17-year old says to his parents, this is how abuse starts; why would they prescribe so many?, you have to ask why a doctor would prescribe so many. Our discussion was why not 25 and have a one-time refill? If you needed more, you would need to see the surgeon.
He doesn't need them anymore and used maybe 20 - 24 Percocet and a handful of muscle relaxers. But, again, why 100 and 45 at a pop? Talked with a Deputy Sheriff who is a friend and he said Percocet sells for $20 a piece on the street.
IMO the doctors need to shoulder some of the blame for the abuse of prescribed drugs out there.
OL
The Fact of the matter, is that doctors prescribe so many because they are basically bought off by the big pharma companies. This stuff is heroin and in some cases, actually worse than heroin. The fact is, NOW WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD takes as many pain killers as we do in this country.
To me it is really one of the biggest scandals in the last 17 years. People want to put the blame of the opioid epidemic on Mexicans and immigrants but the blame sits squarely on the shoulders of big pharma. They are the biggest drug dealers in this country by far. And happy to be so. How nothing has been done about this in congress is a crime.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html
I've heard a lot of dumb things about the opiate crisis, but your comment might be the dumbest. Although I get that it is de rigeur to rail on doctors.
First off, there is no "big pharma" with regards to opiates. These are cheap, old, generic medications. No company is paying me or anybody else to prescribe these drugs. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. If they weren't cheap, nobody would be getting 100 of them in one fell swoop.
Big Pharma, as you put it, is certainly a huge problem with respect to health care costs in this country. But Big Pharma has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the opioid crisis. They have no more to do with the opioid crisis than Pitt's baseball team has to do with Penn State football recruiting. There is no connection.
And let's be clear here: the pain pills aren't "worse than heroin". Not in any way, shape, or form.
First off, there is no "big pharma" with regards to opiates. These are cheap, old, generic medications. No company is paying me or anybody else to prescribe these drugs. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. If they weren't cheap, nobody would be getting 100 of them in one fell swoop.
Big Pharma, as you put it, is certainly a huge problem with respect to health care costs in this country. But Big Pharma has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the opioid crisis. They have no more to do with the opioid crisis than Pitt's baseball team has to do with Penn State football recruiting. There is no connection.
And let's be clear here: the pain pills aren't "worse than heroin". Not in any way, shape, or form.
That would be great if that were the case, but he had over $1k in cash on him so this seems like he was actually slinging prescription pills. Should he be shot...no, hopefully he learns from this, but it wasn't just an ooops I have some extra anti-anxiety pills around...good fun for the kids. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.
My daughter was prescribed 50 OxyContin last year after surgery. She used 1 and we are about to get rid of the other 49 before the local addicts find out. Scary.
Where I grew up on the shore, heroin and prescription pill popping has overrun some pretty decent middle class areas. It's crazy how bad it is up there.
Those prescription numbers are insane. Any doc who prescribes like that is clearly exhibiting terrible judgment, at best. That said, where I practice, you just don't see that. The trend is now going to the other way, which is always what happens.
Nobody remembers that about 12-15 years ago, the medical profession was getting excoriated because we didn't do enough to treat pain. It was all over the media, that people in dire need of pain meds were going without because of a lack of understanding and/or compassion. I remember being very flustered about that.
Now it looks like it has done a complete 180. It's just bizarre, and it is also laziness on the part of the prescribers. But just so that everybody knows, unless the doc is some kind of rogue dude selling prescriptions in his office, he isn't making money writing these things. (And those guys do exist, and should be shot.)
Nobody remembers that about 12-15 years ago, the medical profession was getting excoriated because we didn't do enough to treat pain. It was all over the media, that people in dire need of pain meds were going without because of a lack of understanding and/or compassion. I remember being very flustered about that.
Now it looks like it has done a complete 180. It's just bizarre, and it is also laziness on the part of the prescribers. But just so that everybody knows, unless the doc is some kind of rogue dude selling prescriptions in his office, he isn't making money writing these things. (And those guys do exist, and should be shot.)
What's sad is that the people being prescribed the pain meds, for the most part, are not the ones who end up abusing the drugs but now, the people in pain are going to be the ones denied pain meds because other people are abusing them.
And nothing has occurred in the last 4 -5 months that gives any reason to anticipate change. If anything, Pharma probably feels green-lighted. Believe me.
I don't think PSU was ever in the mix for Leitao. Although he had a PSU offer, as well as about 30 others, he never visited PSU. That said, a LOT of schools dodged a bullet with him.
Strange, these articles seem to say differently.....also, you don't think Fentanyl is worst than Heroin?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...d-paying-doctors-prescribe-fentanyl/85803100/
http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/who-is-responsible-for-the-pain-pill-epidemic
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/who-behind-opioid-epidemic-big-pharma-course
I could post many more of course. But that would be the dumbest.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...d-paying-doctors-prescribe-fentanyl/85803100/
http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/who-is-responsible-for-the-pain-pill-epidemic
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/who-behind-opioid-epidemic-big-pharma-course
I could post many more of course. But that would be the dumbest.
Dude, fentanyl is a different issue altogether which you don't understand. I won't go into it, except to say that the issue with fentanyl is that people are using it and not realizing that it's present. It's added to heroin because it's so potent, and it's a way to give the heroin a boost. It's a relatively short acting drug, which is why it is nobody's agent of choice for abuse. It doesn't provide much of a buzz, but added into the heroin there must be something about it that helps the heroin feel good. Anyhow, it is a profound respiratory depressant, and that is what kills people. Trust me, I know a whole lot about fentanyl. It is a wonderful drug used in the proper setting. Heroin is never a wonderful drug, and has no proper setting. But comparing them is not an apples to apples comparison.
Fentanyl is, by the way, generic and dirt cheap. People can make this stuff in their basement labs. No drug company is driving it.
And frankly, I don't care what any article says. I despise Big Pharma with a passion that I usually reserve for morons and idiots, not to mention imbeciles, but they are not driving this big social problem that we have going on, regarding opiate abuse and addiction. I wish I was not in the middle of this problem, but I see it and its ramifications every single ****ing day. Are there stupid docs out there? Absolutely. Are there unethical docs out there, that are lazy and misguided? For sure. Are those unethical docs getting rich writing these stupid prescriptions because some big Pharma company is sending them checks, absolutely not. Not on the whole, at least. Not even close.
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You blame Pharma and I blame users and law breakers.
People have moved from "illegal" drugs to "legal" drugs and in my opinion it is driven by the demand side not the supply side.
That said, there is certainly blame on the Pharma side as they are producing way too many pills to make sense.
But then again, what makes sense? Have a lawyer involved and the "pain" a person has gets blown out of proportion.
LdN
Yep. I have a friend whose daughter had serious pain issues and got a one-time prescription for oxy. She hated taking pills so after a week or so she got better and the friend tossed the leftovers. He told me that a month or so later his daughter asked about the oxy and suspected that she wanted to sell them. The temptation is there, and the money is easy.
I agree, it would be great to give them away for free. But then who would discover them? I also think it would be great if doctors and other health care providers took a paycut. Look up the top earning professions and doctors occupy 6 or 7 of the top 10.
Doctors like me are paid just fine. I am not complaining. However, I live in a neighborhood where all of the lawyers make more than me. One of 3 engineers makes more, and the other two make about the same. I live in a 4 bedroom house that is about 3100 square feet and I traded in my last car when it had 128,000 miles on it. And no, it wasn't a Benz. And like everyone else I had to borrow money to pay for my kids' college tuition.
While we are well compensated, what we make compared to guys like the big-time lawyers and the financial guys is way, way off. We are talking factors of 10, 20, or more.
You can cut doctor pay, and predictably what will happen is that you will get what you pay for. You won't save much money, because the number of docs that are really highly paid (neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons, plastics guys) are relatively few in number. And the plastics guys are all being paid out of the patient's own pockets since no insurance pays for cosmetic stuff anyhow. If you cut some dermatologist or radiologist salary by 10%, it's not nearly as much money saved as you think, and furthermore, if you think the insurance companies are going to pass those savings on to you, then you are living in a dream world.
While we are well compensated, what we make compared to guys like the big-time lawyers and the financial guys is way, way off. We are talking factors of 10, 20, or more.
You can cut doctor pay, and predictably what will happen is that you will get what you pay for. You won't save much money, because the number of docs that are really highly paid (neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons, plastics guys) are relatively few in number. And the plastics guys are all being paid out of the patient's own pockets since no insurance pays for cosmetic stuff anyhow. If you cut some dermatologist or radiologist salary by 10%, it's not nearly as much money saved as you think, and furthermore, if you think the insurance companies are going to pass those savings on to you, then you are living in a dream world.
As a prescriber, I definitely agree that some doctors are part of the problem and that some doctors provide far too many tablets with each prescription. No way should a 17 year old ever be getting an Rx for 100 oxycodone tabs.
The contention that the recent upswing in overdoses has nothing to do with drug cartels and gangs is ridiculous. Synthetic opioids are cheaper and easier to produce than heroin. They are also many times more potent, which definitely has something to do with overdose deaths.
The contention that the recent upswing in overdoses has nothing to do with drug cartels and gangs is ridiculous. Synthetic opioids are cheaper and easier to produce than heroin. They are also many times more potent, which definitely has something to do with overdose deaths.
Doctors work an average of 59.6 hours/week. The average doctor's career ends at 65. If they finish their residency at 29, they'll spend 36 years working almost 1 ½ times more than most other Americans.
Here is the real problem with Fentanyl. https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/fentanyl.html
It is a synthetic opioid that is apparently not difficult to make. The above webpage shows you how to make it and how to dilute it for street use. I'm not a chemist but, I've read that it is easier to make than meth. There is no way to stop a drug like this with a war on drugs mentality.
Just out of curiosity, it sounds as if your neighbors and you exchange salary info. Is that correct?
The problem with fentanyl is that it is added to heroin in stealth fashion. Nobody knows how much of it is in there, or if it's in there at all. That's the problem. On a per weight basis it is very potent, particularly compared to the basement heroin that is on the streets right now. It's like thinking you are drinking 3.2 beer, but instead, drinking grain alcohol. And when you get too much of any narcotic, you stop breathing. That is what kills people. They just stop breathing. Unfortunately, when you take a bunch of fentanyl that you don't know is there, or how much is there, and you are unlucky, you stop breathing. That isn't good.
Now, if you can do CPR on them and breathe for them, they'll survive. You might have to breathe for them for a few hours or more, but they will do OK usually, so long as somebody does the breathing for them. So keep that in mind.
Now, if you can do CPR on them and breathe for them, they'll survive. You might have to breathe for them for a few hours or more, but they will do OK usually, so long as somebody does the breathing for them. So keep that in mind.
Nah, not with scientific precision, but somewhat in generalities, and it's easy to infer the rest. And I'm really good friends with a lot of my neighbors, so it's not a big deal.
I would say it is dodging a bullet. Poor judgement is poor judgement and kids that have it many times grow into adults that have it. CJF values his locker room and he is trying to fill the locker room with football players that have good judgement.....
