Mark Hall
- Thread starter sunshinedynomite
- Start date
I will admit, the Chertowism I cringed the most at was his surprise that TJ thought Mark was the one of the best top wrestlers in the country. Spencer might have him beat--but who else?
I missed that, need some context -- was Chertow surprised at Hall being among the best? Or was he surprised that Johnson removed his black/gold glasses long enough to recognize Hall's greatness?
Kevin Claunch is in left field. Mark Hall is a damn phenom! He has been superb all along. He had the unfortunate timing to wrestle in the era of Z Valencia (who is a once in a generation type), but was able to beat Z when Z wasn’t able to work his weight-loss vs weigh-in vs match shenanigans (like he does every March).
Kem is a great wrestler when healthy but I don;t see him beating Hall. Kem beating an IMHO overrated Romero last night did not impress me.
This answers the question does size matter. In my opinion Mark's the better wrestler. The different weigh in requirements, dual vs NCAA made all the difference. Z was so much bigger than Mark.
Well....eventually one of them has to remove the under from his achieve (tho Kemerer’s is mostly injury induced)
WIsh Hall could see Valencia one more time in the finals.
The way he is wrestling this year I think he would beat Zahid
The way he is wrestling this year I think he would beat Zahid
Did Superman have to remove the under from his wear?
Admitting I never wrestled beyond gym class I've wondered about the weighingin process and Valencia.
He looks much larger than everyone he wrestles and it's puzzling how he does it? Someone mentioned there is a difference between in season weigh ins and NCAA tournament weigh ins. Could someone briefly explain the two processes and how they can be manipulated as it appears they are by Valencia?
To provide the most equitable and fair competition I'd think the weigh in would be within a half hour or an hour prior to the match but I'm a novice so I could be way off too for numerous reasons.
He looks much larger than everyone he wrestles and it's puzzling how he does it? Someone mentioned there is a difference between in season weigh ins and NCAA tournament weigh ins. Could someone briefly explain the two processes and how they can be manipulated as it appears they are by Valencia?
To provide the most equitable and fair competition I'd think the weigh in would be within a half hour or an hour prior to the match but I'm a novice so I could be way off too for numerous reasons.
Tournament weigh-ins are once daily in the morning for everyone, before the first session starts. Can't do this 30-60 min before each match, would be complete chaos.
Guys who advance need to make weight the next morning, so they can't just let loose after weigh-ins.
The exception is Saturday at nationals -- nobody needs to make weight Sunday.
Also don't trust the eye test when it comes to "bigger" except HWT and Robles.
In addition to El-Jefe's info, weigh-in's are 1 hour or sooner for duals, two hours for day 1 of tournaments, and one hour for days 2 and 3 (NCAA Tournament).
Also, there's a 1 pound weight allowance on day 2, and another pound on day 3.
Valencia isn't manipulating anything, he's playing by the same rules as everyone else. Interesting that you picked Zahid, though I guess winning National Championships will do that (cause fans to remember). Honestly, I hear hundreds of times each year, from many fans, that one wrestler looked so much bigger than his opponent. Every dual, every tournament. I guess looks are deceiving.
In the am! So you have approximately 8-12 hours to rehydrate. This could possibly include the use of intravenous saline solution, which goes directly into the blood stream and muscle, bypassing the stomach and digestive process. I am not taking anything away from anyone, but if you are making a big cut this will help tremendously as opposed to a 1 hour weigh in at a dual meet!
You could do it before a match. You could have both wrestlers go over to the scorers table and step on a scale. Give 2 for singlet and shoes. Make it, get your band and wrestle. if You want to wrestle dehydrated good luck
Put the scale at the scorers table and have each wrestler weigh-in directly before taking the mat. Stop this nonsense of making this about which wrestler can loose the most amount of weight and recover the fastest.
If you they were actually concerned about safety when it comes to cutting weight that is what the NCAA would mandate. If they do not want to go to that extreme, the weigh-in should occur before the first session you wrestle that day.
“The first session you wrestle that day” would not be fair if it it cannot guarantee that any wrestlers who might wrestle each other that day will have had the same amount of post-weighing time at the time they meet.
IMO it’s no coincidence that In their 4 NCAA matches. Mark has won both times when there were additional weigh ins remaining for the season .... and lost both times when their was not
This would lead to wrestlers being severely dehydrated during their matches. Hard to imagine a less safe way to conduct weigh-ins.
What?? They wouldn't be able to compete severely dehydrated so they would have to move up a weight or two so as to not cut so much. This would make the sport much safer, and would make it much more competitive in the spirit that it was meant to be competitive.
Interesting question! I think only a real-world test lasting multiple years can answer this question of how people will react. People don’t always react in the ways predicted. For example, we did not all go buy Segways even though many predicted we would.
And there it is, an extended period of time to refuel, rehydrate, rest, etc. of 8 to 12 hours for the finals. While the size disparity, apparently, is noted by El Jefe and I can grasp that some look different than others, but not as much as HE does. This extended period of time so much longer than other matches, why? I suppose if I was chief of the wrestling world I would not change the pattern of weigh ins for the finals as noted there are ways to really pump you up!
You really think this would prevent wrestlers from cutting?
You think last year Berge would've sat behind our 3 returning national champs in order to not cut to 149? Hid did everything he could to make the lineup, then moved up when the 157 spot cleared this year. The difference is that he would've had no recovery time after weigh-ins.
That's also why Shak was at 165, Marsteller was at 157 at OKST, Heflin was at 174 in Columbus, etc.
Mark beat Valencia last March. The referee refused poorly, but Mark outscored Z.
Lots of people who never wrestled posting in this thread. Scale by the mat side lol. Get real.
None of the examples you've listed should have ever taken place. Do you think any of those guys looked healthy (even with time to rehydrate) wrestling last year? IMO with the scale at the scorers table, any attempts to wrestle would have resulted in failure followed by an immediate return to a more natural and healthy weight.
As a side benefit moving the scale would help to promote one of the core attributes of wrestling; that being people of similar size compete against each other.
I don't believe that is
I don't believe that is an issue at NCAA's, possibly could be at B1Gs. The real issue is the NCAA final when guys are weighing in at AM and wrestling 8 to 10 hours later.
Actually Ray Brinzer was the first person I heard who suggested that. I think he knows a little something about wrestling.
Bo Jordan is basically the same height as Mark. The issue (from a wrestling point of view) Regarding Mark vs Zahid ... it’s not a Bulk issue but rather a height/length issue. ZVs length (combined with a full gas tank) presents major issues for anyone, even someone as talented as Mark
it’s the same for Bo... his length is a major advantage for him. (Also see David Taylor and Ed Ruth)
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