Mark Hall

[El-Jefe]

None of the examples you've listed should have ever taken place. Do you think any of those guys looked healthy (even with time to rehydrate) wrestling last year? IMO with the scale at the scorers table, any attempts to wrestle would have resulted in failure followed by an immediate return to a more natural and healthy weight.

As a side benefit moving the scale would help to promote one of the core attributes of wrestling; that being people of similar size compete against each other.

Every single one of those examples took place because those wrestlers had to either cut or sit. All of them would have sat at their "more natural and healthy weight" -- which is a subjective standard. All of them met the objective standard: NCAA Certification rules.

Denying this is denying both the competitive nature of elite athletes and the Law of Unintended Consequences. They will not accept sitting out the NCAA Championship if the rules allow competing. If the rules are changed to make weigh-ins 2 hrs later, they will simply not eat or drink for 2 more hrs.

If you want to couple mat-side weigh-ins with a change to certification rules -- raising the minima by increasing the target bodyfat % -- then maybe you're onto something.

But even then, this will never happen. The NCAA and the Coaches Association will never risk an NCAA Finals forfeit because one wrestler flunked a live, televised mat-side weigh-in.

 

[Dogwelder]

Denying this is denying both the competitive nature of elite athletes and the Law of Unintended Consequences. They will not accept sitting out the NCAA Championship if the rules allow competing.

What you say is possible and logical, but there is logic on the other side, too. We cannot be overconfident in our predictions. This is very similar to a debate in economics, a field in which beautiful predictions by smart people often fail.

Regarding your analysis, there is some logical gap. Competitive bench guys might want to cut extreme weight because they want to wrestle, but what happens when they wrestle dehydrated and keep losing? They have coaches who decide the starter who might not start a guy who loses or who is expected to lose a lot.

I’m not even saying your’re wrong, and I don’t even have a prediction. I just cannot resist noticing proofs with gaps and confident conclusions that non sequitur.

From a logic point of view, your argument could be used to “prove” that one-hour-before weigh-ins would have zero effect versus night-before weigh-ins on people’s decisions on what weight to go, all due to “competitive nature”. Is that also a conclusion with which you are confident?

 

[Lyons212]

Every single one of those examples took place because those wrestlers had to either cut or sit. All of them would have sat at their "more natural and healthy weight" -- which is a subjective standard. All of them met the objective standard: NCAA Certification rules.

Denying this is denying both the competitive nature of elite athletes and the Law of Unintended Consequences. They will not accept sitting out the NCAA Championship if the rules allow competing. If the rules are changed to make weigh-ins 2 hrs later, they will simply not eat or drink for 2 more hrs.

If you want to couple mat-side weigh-ins with a change to certification rules -- raising the minima by increasing the target bodyfat % -- then maybe you're onto something.

But even then, this will never happen. The NCAA and the Coaches Association will never risk an NCAA Finals forfeit because one wrestler flunked a live, televised mat-side weigh-in.

No matter when weigh-ins occur, there is always the risk of the NCAA final forfeit for failing to make weight. Even now with the weigh-in at 10 AM in the morning (maybe its 11 AM), there are guys up all night cutting weight. Move the weigh-in matside, guys will cut all day and make weight.

It is rare that someone does not make weight at nationals. That will not change no matter when they weigh-in.

 

[jrd23psu]

How about that Mark Hall fella? He’s one groovy dude amirite?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I dont have an issue with 1, or even 2 hour weigh ins,and I dont feel there is a need for matside weigh ins for a typical dual, but the idea of someone getting 12 hours before he takes the mat is assinine.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I have always thought matside weigh ins would be great. Give a 1 lb. allowance per round in a given day. Give a 2lb. allowance for the Sat. night final. No way Mark Hall isn't a 3 timer going for number 4 under those rules imo.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Zahid is the text book example, at NCAA’s, we’ve all seen him struggle, prior to the finals, but he has calculated that he is talented enough to survive to the finals. If there were not this big time gap, for the finals, he would have been in big danger to loose to Hall, in their first finals. And if he lost, being the competitor that he is, last year, he would have likely went 184, to avoid the same fate. The goal should be to get the best two guys, in the finals, at each weight, not the two guys that can take advantage of a once a year difference, for weigh ins, for the NCAA finals.

 

[82bordeaux]

I have always thought matside weigh ins would be great. Give a 1 lb. allowance per round in a given day. Give a 2lb. allowance for the Sat. night final. No way Mark Hall isn't a 3 timer going for number 4 under those rules imo.

Maybe AB will pin him in March. A little Friday morning lightning! An 8 seed could see him in the quarters.

 

[McScoreley]

Funny enough, Mark mentioned in his Barstool Interview he actually cuts the most on the team (most people assumed it was Cenzo)

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1203720/21-questions-with-ncaa-champ-mark-hall

Who’s the worst person you’ve ever roomed with on a wrestling trip?

Typically, on our trips we don’t get to pick who we room with, and all of last year, I was with Vincenzo Joseph. Blessing and a curse. Sure, he takes some meds before bed and you won’t hear a noise out of him until the morning. Makes for a great night’s sleep for me considering I cut the most weight on the team.

Any weight-cutting horror stories?

Six days before Junior Nationals, the summer after my freshman year, I weighed 184, and for that tournament I had to make 163. I managed to get myself to about 5 pounds over by the time we arrived in Las Vegas. The workout that took me about 55 minutes to get off 5 pounds at Junior Worlds, took me about 3-and-a-half hours to get off 5 pounds at Junior Nationals. When I was walking to weigh-ins, my entire body was cramping and I could barely sit up right without leaning over to a side. I know it’s not the worst thing you’ve probably ever heard, but I don’t cut too much weight. Now when I do, I make sure I do it the right way.

 

[McScoreley]

A weigh in at the Scorers Table would HUGELY benefit Penn State IMO. It's been mentioned many times but most of Cael's guys don't look like they are big cutters. Strength advantage doesn't seem to remotely help the other wrestler either, imagine if that was taken away as well.

 

[82bordeaux]

Funny enough, Mark mentioned in his Barstool Interview he actually cuts the most on the team (most people assumed it was Cenzo)

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1203720/21-questions-with-ncaa-champ-mark-hall

Who’s the worst person you’ve ever roomed with on a wrestling trip?

Typically, on our trips we don’t get to pick who we room with, and all of last year, I was with Vincenzo Joseph. Blessing and a curse. Sure, he takes some meds before bed and you won’t hear a noise out of him until the morning. Makes for a great night’s sleep for me considering I cut the most weight on the team.

Any weight-cutting horror stories?

Six days before Junior Nationals, the summer after my freshman year, I weighed 184, and for that tournament I had to make 163. I managed to get myself to about 5 pounds over by the time we arrived in Las Vegas. The workout that took me about 55 minutes to get off 5 pounds at Junior Worlds, took me about 3-and-a-half hours to get off 5 pounds at Junior Nationals. When I was walking to weigh-ins, my entire body was cramping and I could barely sit up right without leaning over to a side. I know it’s not the worst thing you’ve probably ever heard, but I don’t cut too much weight. Now when I do, I make sure I do it the right way.

Interesting. I always assumed he cut very little. But sometimes looks vs. weight is deceiving. My buddy has little Yorkie that always shocks me when I pick him up. He is just a bunch of dense muscle. Same can be said for humans I'm sure.

 

[McScoreley]

Interesting. I always assumed he cut very little. But sometimes looks vs. weight is deceiving. My buddy has little Yorkie that always shocks me when I pick him up. He is just a bunch of dense muscle. Same can be said for humans I'm sure.

I'm guessing the 184 was a bit heavier than his normal walk around weight (considering it was summer) So at worst, Mark cuts about 10 pounds and it's probably less and he says that's the most on the team (he could be kidding since it was Barstool but I don't think so)

 

[ZepGraffiti]

I'm guessing the 184 was a bit heavier than his normal walk around weight (considering it was summer) So at worst, Mark cuts about 10 pounds and it's probably less and he says that's the most on the team (he could be kidding since it was Barstool but I don't think so)

Actually, IMO he was kidding. Hall and Cenzo [and Gardner] seem to have a playful way about this stuff [inside jabs & such]. But who knows?

 

[McScoreley]

Actually, IMO he was kidding. Hall and Cenzo [and Gardner] seem to have a playful way about this stuff [inside jabs & such]. But who knows?

Totally possible - it could have been a joke about Cenzo actually cutting the most. It's also likely Cael wouldn't want Mark to tip his hand about stuff like that.

 

[matter7172]

So, apparently Michigan fans are really nice - or was that tongue in cheek? Also, apparently Iowa fans don't mind shouting racist things at opposing wrestlers (I'm inferring that from the undetailed "vulgar" comment from Mark).

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I redd here that Cenzo cuts from 200 weekly! Was that some sort of joke?

 

[Dogwelder]

... He is just a bunch of dense muscle ...

Dense bones are a thing, too. We know this because thoroughbred horses have very lightweight bones that break too easily (and so dense bones must also be a thing).

 

[Lyons212]

Zahid is the text book example, at NCAA’s, we’ve all seen him struggle, prior to the finals, but he has calculated that he is talented enough to survive to the finals. If there were not this big time gap, for the finals, he would have been in big danger to loose to Hall, in their first finals. And if he lost, being the competitor that he is, last year, he would have likely went 184, to avoid the same fate. The goal should be to get the best two guys, in the finals, at each weight, not the two guys that can take advantage of a once a year difference, for weigh ins, for the NCAA finals.

Basically what you have the entire season is wrestled under one set of rules regarding the amount of time between weigh-ins and wrestling with the exception of the biggest match of the year, the NCAA final. When you think about it that way, it really makes no sense for the finalists to weigh-in at the morning session.

 

[PSU Mike]

Basically what you have the entire season is wrestled under one set of rules regarding the amount of time between weigh-ins and wrestling with the exception of the biggest match of the year, the NCAA final. When you think about it that way, it really makes no sense for the finalists to weigh-in at the morning session.

MLB baseball playoffs, particularly wrt pitching, is one of the closest things to it. Just a whole different animal with the travel breaks.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Zahid is the text book example, at NCAA’s, we’ve all seen him struggle, prior to the finals, but he has calculated that he is talented enough to survive to the finals. If there were not this big time gap, for the finals, he would have been in big danger to loose to Hall, in their first finals. And if he lost, being the competitor that he is, last year, he would have likely went 184, to avoid the same fate. The goal should be to get the best two guys, in the finals, at each weight, not the two guys that can take advantage of a once a year difference, for weigh ins, for the NCAA finals.

In which match did Zahid struggle at NCAAs last year? 1st round MD, 2nd round MD, Quarterfinals FALL, or Semifinals MD?

Same question for 2018 where his only non bonus win was 7-5 over Amine in the semis? Same Amine who Hall has wrestled 5 times and won by one point each time. Just asking for a friend.

 

[PAwrestling]

Actually Ray Brinzer was the first person I heard who suggested that. I think he knows a little something about wrestling.

He sure did mention that. That is fact. Ray was a different breed. That being typed, Ray would not have enjoyed that during his high school or NCAA career.

 

[slushhead]

In which match did Zahid struggle at NCAAs last year? 1st round MD, 2nd round MD, Quarterfinals FALL, or Semifinals MD?

Same question for 2018 where his only non bonus win was 7-5 over Amine in the semis? Same Amine who Hall has wrestled 5 times and won by one point each time. Just asking for a friend.

Yeah, I think Zahid's struggles -- which were few -- tended to occur during dual meets on the road.

 

[nerfstate]

I find it really annoying (you’re not alone Slush) that while this thread started off praising one of the best wrestlers to wear the blue and white, it once again finds its way to making excuses for why he’s not a four-time Champion. Mark Hall is an amazing wrestler. Not his fault that another amazing wrestler happens to share the same weight class for three years. Let’s try to enjoy what matches he has left for us—he’s one of a kind.

 

[Cowbell Man]

I find it really annoying (you’re not alone Slush) that while this thread started off praising one of the best wrestlers to wear the blue and white, it once again finds its way to making excuses for why he’s not a four-time Champion. Mark Hall is an amazing wrestler. Not his fault that another amazing wrestler happens to share the same weight class for three years. Let’s try to enjoy what matches he has left for us—he’s one of a kind.

Here is something Zahid won’t be.

a four time Finalist.

 

[matter7172]

I have always thought matside weigh ins would be great. Give a 1 lb. allowance per round in a given day. Give a 2lb. allowance for the Sat. night final. No way Mark Hall isn't a 3 timer going for number 4 under those rules imo.

Plus, think of the drama! Guy steps up to the scale .... and he's over.

 

[RoarLions1]

Actually Ray Brinzer was the first person I heard who suggested that. I think he knows a little something about wrestling.

He sure did mention that. That is fact. Ray was a different breed. That being typed, Ray would not have enjoyed that during his high school or NCAA career.

Brinzer's exact words from at least one time that he said it, "I would implement mat-side weigh-ins. The last thing each wrestler would do before going t onto the to step on the scale. If he was not on weight, the match would be a loss, equivalent to a fall in a dual meet setting. In tournaments, the athlete would weigh in for every match of the tournament, including the finals." Feel free to discuss the entire quote.

He also has many other things...as PAwrestling said, he's a "different breed", and out there on some of his opinions.

I find it really annoying (you’re not alone Slush) that while this thread started off praising one of the best wrestlers to wear the blue and white, it once again finds its way to making excuses for why he’s not a four-time Champion. Mark Hall is an amazing wrestler. Not his fault that another amazing wrestler happens to share the same weight class for three years. Let’s try to enjoy what matches he has left for us—he’s one of a kind.

Agree completely.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Plus, think of the drama! Guy steps up to the scale .... and he's over.

Call the lawyers, scales weren’t certified!!

 

[Cali_Nittany]

This may have been posted somewhere else but since the article features Mark Hall...

https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatef...are-walking-into-on-friday-night-at-iowa.html

 

[bigbopper1985]

How do weigh ins at olympic and world freestyle championships differ from NCAA level tournaments? Do they weigh in once a day or before each session?

 

[midniteride]

How do weigh ins at olympic and world freestyle championships differ from NCAA level tournaments? Do they weigh in once a day or before each session?

For Russia it's the Honor System

 

[RoarLions1]

How do weigh ins at olympic and world freestyle championships differ from NCAA level tournaments? Do they weigh in once a day or before each session?

No exact time noted in the rules, that I saw … it IS morning of, which is a significant change from the prior "day before".


For all competitions, the weigh-in is organized each morning of the concerned weight-category. The weigh-in and the medical control lasts 30 minutes.

The second morning of the concerned weight category only the wrestlers who participate in the repechages and finals have to come for the weigh-in. A 2 kilos tolerance will be allowed for this second weigh-in. This weigh-in will last 15 minutes.

No wrestler may be accepted at the weigh-in if he has not undergone a medical examination the first morning.

Wrestlers must appear at the medical examination and the weigh-in with their license and accreditation.

The only uniform allowed for the weigh-in is the singlet. After having been examined by qualified physician who are obliged to eliminate any wrestler who presents any danger of contagious disease, the wrestler can be weighed-in. No weight tolerance will be allowed for the singlet.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

For Russia it's the Honor System

You used “Honor”and “Russia” in the same sentence.
Accidentally,intentionally,or oxymoronically?