Maryland students "offended" by Byrd Stadium name (link)
- Thread starter Thus Spoke Mainer
- Start date
Students at Washington & Jefferson must be losing their minds then
If we're going to apply current improved standards to past behavior and judge people based on that.
Do I agree with some of the things those guys did? Of course not. But it was a different time with different cultural norms, and pretending they never existed or still didnt do other great things is absurd.
If we're going to apply current improved standards to past behavior and judge people based on that.
Do I agree with some of the things those guys did? Of course not. But it was a different time with different cultural norms, and pretending they never existed or still didnt do other great things is absurd.
The student leading the charge just so happens to be named "Colin Byrd". My gut tells me he was hoping they would say, "You're right, it's no longer named after the other Byrd, it's now named after you."
Re: Students at Washington & Jefferson must be losing their minds then
Ain't that the truth. It must also drive them nuts to have the university located in the metro area of a city named after a guy who owned slaves. If they're looking for perfection in anyone they won't find it.
Ain't that the truth. It must also drive them nuts to have the university located in the metro area of a city named after a guy who owned slaves. If they're looking for perfection in anyone they won't find it.
Re: Students at Washington & Jefferson must be losing their minds then
That's one thing which irks me about the latest push to put a woman on the $20 bill? Why the $20? Did Andrew Jackson's accomplishments suddenly become less noteworthy? He was honored for a reason. There are numerous ways historically important women can be honored but why must it involve un-honoring someone else?
Re: Students at Washington & Jefferson must be losing their minds then
The left would like to crush the memory of the founding fathers. The Constitution that these guys defended with their lives means nothing to many people today with their crazy agendas.
Interestingly ...
there is no record as to why Jackson is on the $20 bill. In 1928, a committee at the Treasury Department was assigned the task of coming up with who to put on the new US currency. About the only stipulations they had where the individuals that were selected had to be dead. When the committee selected Jackson for the new $20 bill, they basically replaced Grover Cleveland, who was on the previous $20 bill. Has it been bothering you that Grover Cleveland was un-honored in 1928?
The Treasury Department has no record of why Jackson was selected. The leading Jackson scholars have no info on this, nor does anyone at Hermitage, which is a museum devoted to Jackson.
As for un-honoring Jackson, I would have no problem at all with his being replaced on the $20 bill. Pretty much the only legislation which he requested be passed during his 8 years as President was the Indian Removal Act. US history is full of horrible acts by the US Government against the native Indians, but the Indian Removal Act may have been the worst law passed by the US government with regard to the Indians. In Cherokee Nation v. Georgia in 1831, and in Worcester v. Georgia in 1832, the US Supreme Court upheld the Cherokee Nation's independence from state authority (in this case Georgia). Jackson encouraged Georgia to ignore the rulings. He then got a minority faction within the Cherokee Nation to sign a treaty with the US Government that agreed that the Cherokee would move to the Indian Territories (now Oklahoma). The majority of the tribe rejected this sham treaty, but they were forcefully rounded up and moved during the infamous Trail of Tears. (Which happened under Pres. Martin Van Buren, but under the treaty and conditions that had been established by Pres. Jackson.)
You could add in his slaughter of the Creek Indians at the battle of Horseshoe Bend, in 1814 (he was the leader of the troops there), or his overstepping of his orders in 1817 to subdue the Seminole Indians (which he took to basically invade modern Florida, capture Spanish bastions, arrest and execute British nationals, etc.) to a litany of things that Jackson did that I have very little respect for.
Tom
there is no record as to why Jackson is on the $20 bill. In 1928, a committee at the Treasury Department was assigned the task of coming up with who to put on the new US currency. About the only stipulations they had where the individuals that were selected had to be dead. When the committee selected Jackson for the new $20 bill, they basically replaced Grover Cleveland, who was on the previous $20 bill. Has it been bothering you that Grover Cleveland was un-honored in 1928?
The Treasury Department has no record of why Jackson was selected. The leading Jackson scholars have no info on this, nor does anyone at Hermitage, which is a museum devoted to Jackson.
As for un-honoring Jackson, I would have no problem at all with his being replaced on the $20 bill. Pretty much the only legislation which he requested be passed during his 8 years as President was the Indian Removal Act. US history is full of horrible acts by the US Government against the native Indians, but the Indian Removal Act may have been the worst law passed by the US government with regard to the Indians. In Cherokee Nation v. Georgia in 1831, and in Worcester v. Georgia in 1832, the US Supreme Court upheld the Cherokee Nation's independence from state authority (in this case Georgia). Jackson encouraged Georgia to ignore the rulings. He then got a minority faction within the Cherokee Nation to sign a treaty with the US Government that agreed that the Cherokee would move to the Indian Territories (now Oklahoma). The majority of the tribe rejected this sham treaty, but they were forcefully rounded up and moved during the infamous Trail of Tears. (Which happened under Pres. Martin Van Buren, but under the treaty and conditions that had been established by Pres. Jackson.)
You could add in his slaughter of the Creek Indians at the battle of Horseshoe Bend, in 1814 (he was the leader of the troops there), or his overstepping of his orders in 1817 to subdue the Seminole Indians (which he took to basically invade modern Florida, capture Spanish bastions, arrest and execute British nationals, etc.) to a litany of things that Jackson did that I have very little respect for.
Tom
Learn something new every day ...
The faces on the major US Currency are:
$1: Washington - a Founding Father
$2: Jefferson - a Founding Father
$5: Lincoln - not a Founding Father
$10: Hamilton - a Founding Father
$20: Jackson - not a Founding Father
$50: Grant - not a Founding Father
$100: Franklin - a Founding Father
Tom
When did Jackson become a Founding Father? He was born in 1767, which made him around 9 years old when the Declaration of Independence was signed, and around 23 when the US Constitution was ratified.
The faces on the major US Currency are:
$1: Washington - a Founding Father
$2: Jefferson - a Founding Father
$5: Lincoln - not a Founding Father
$10: Hamilton - a Founding Father
$20: Jackson - not a Founding Father
$50: Grant - not a Founding Father
$100: Franklin - a Founding Father
Tom
Re: Learn something new every day ...
By the way, I know history better than most.
Also by the way, I never stated Jackson was a founding father.
This post was edited on 4/10 12:34 PM by Howie'81
Hey Tom. Cut some slack here. I wasn't being literal. My point was that guys like Jackson defended the Constitution, while some people today want to tear it up and I think that was pretty clear from my post. Maybe I'll start nitpicking every post. That'll be fun, huh?
By the way, I know history better than most.
Also by the way, I never stated Jackson was a founding father.
This post was edited on 4/10 12:34 PM by Howie'81
One of Penn State's great heroes
Civil War general, wounded in battle, amazing, rich history. We all can be proud of his legacy.
Civil War general, wounded in battle, amazing, rich history. We all can be proud of his legacy.
Re: Interestingly ...
"Andrew Jackson was the first U.S. president who was not born into a wealthy family. He was not a wealthy man and did not have a college education. For these reasons, Jackson stood for the common man (people who worked hard and did not make a lot of money, like farmers). "
Maybe that is why he was honored
"Andrew Jackson was the first U.S. president who was not born into a wealthy family. He was not a wealthy man and did not have a college education. For these reasons, Jackson stood for the common man (people who worked hard and did not make a lot of money, like farmers). "
Maybe that is why he was honored
Re: Andrew Jackson "defended the Constitution?"
This excerpt from Wikipedia on Andrew Jackson:
Jackson's philosophy as President followed much in the same line as [40]
Jackson's presidency held a high moralistic tone; having as a planter
himself agrarian sympathies, a limited view of states rights and the
federal government.
Yeah Art, it sounds like he despised the Constitution.
This excerpt from Wikipedia on Andrew Jackson:
Jackson's philosophy as President followed much in the same line as [40]
Jackson's presidency held a high moralistic tone; having as a planter
himself agrarian sympathies, a limited view of states rights and the
federal government.
Yeah Art, it sounds like he despised the Constitution.
Re: Learn something new every day ...
You can argue this both ways with Jackson. As my reply to NittPicker points out, there is ample evidence that Jackson openly violated the Constitution when it suited his purposes, or he disagreed with the Supreme Court rulings.
On the in-between, his Presidency preceded civil service reform. He campaigned against the fraud in the bureaucracy of Pres. Adams, and then he went about appointing replacements that were far worse than anybody that Adams had appointed. Perhaps his biggest fiasco was the appointment of Samuel Swartwout as collector at the NYC customhouse. Several years later, Swartwout disappeared after helping himself to over 1 mill dollars.
He absolutely disagreed with the Constitution regarding native Indians. The Constitution clearly indicated that the Federal Government could make treaties with Indians. Jackson disagreed, and felt that Indians should be treated as residents of their particular states, and tenants-at-will, but not sovereign entities.
He also seemed to have some problems regarding abolitionist and the Postal Service. In 1835, abolitionists started sending anti-slavery letters, documents, etc. to clergymen, elected officials, etc. in the South. Once their actions were identified, postmasters in the South, or angry mobs, intercepted the mailings, all with the approval of Jackson.
As for arguments in support of his defending the Constitution, you could point to his backing of the tariff. A large group of Southerners opposed the tariffs the Federal Government imposed on trade. John C. Calhoun, of of S. Carolina, advanced an argument that an individual state could declare null and void any federal law that it deemed to violate the Constitution. Jackson opposed Calhoun, and famously stated "Our federal Union: It must be preserved." He made additional arguments that were in favor of the Federal Govt.'s right to collect tariffs. I recall a proclamation against S. Carolina's attempts in 1833 to declare the most recent tariff passed by Congress as null and void. S. Carolina had also also passed a bill to block the collection of tariffs at their ports, and to defend their state with militias against federal forces. Jackson's proclamation said, "Be not deceived by names. Disunion by armed force is treason. Are you really ready to incur its guilt?"
Jackson was in many ways, a follower of Jefferson. He wasn't nearly as smart as Jefferson, but he did believe in Jefferson's approach to government. You don't have to look very closely at Jefferson's actions as President to see examples of him disregarding the Constitution when it got in his way. Jackson operated much the same way.
Tom
Howie,
You can argue this both ways with Jackson. As my reply to NittPicker points out, there is ample evidence that Jackson openly violated the Constitution when it suited his purposes, or he disagreed with the Supreme Court rulings.
On the in-between, his Presidency preceded civil service reform. He campaigned against the fraud in the bureaucracy of Pres. Adams, and then he went about appointing replacements that were far worse than anybody that Adams had appointed. Perhaps his biggest fiasco was the appointment of Samuel Swartwout as collector at the NYC customhouse. Several years later, Swartwout disappeared after helping himself to over 1 mill dollars.
He absolutely disagreed with the Constitution regarding native Indians. The Constitution clearly indicated that the Federal Government could make treaties with Indians. Jackson disagreed, and felt that Indians should be treated as residents of their particular states, and tenants-at-will, but not sovereign entities.
He also seemed to have some problems regarding abolitionist and the Postal Service. In 1835, abolitionists started sending anti-slavery letters, documents, etc. to clergymen, elected officials, etc. in the South. Once their actions were identified, postmasters in the South, or angry mobs, intercepted the mailings, all with the approval of Jackson.
As for arguments in support of his defending the Constitution, you could point to his backing of the tariff. A large group of Southerners opposed the tariffs the Federal Government imposed on trade. John C. Calhoun, of of S. Carolina, advanced an argument that an individual state could declare null and void any federal law that it deemed to violate the Constitution. Jackson opposed Calhoun, and famously stated "Our federal Union: It must be preserved." He made additional arguments that were in favor of the Federal Govt.'s right to collect tariffs. I recall a proclamation against S. Carolina's attempts in 1833 to declare the most recent tariff passed by Congress as null and void. S. Carolina had also also passed a bill to block the collection of tariffs at their ports, and to defend their state with militias against federal forces. Jackson's proclamation said, "Be not deceived by names. Disunion by armed force is treason. Are you really ready to incur its guilt?"
Jackson was in many ways, a follower of Jefferson. He wasn't nearly as smart as Jefferson, but he did believe in Jefferson's approach to government. You don't have to look very closely at Jefferson's actions as President to see examples of him disregarding the Constitution when it got in his way. Jackson operated much the same way.
Tom
Re: Learn something new every day ...
It seems to me that you can make this kind of argument with most Presidents. The Trail of Tears was a mistake for sure, but I think it's fair to say that at that point in our history, guys like Jackson were not looking to change our form of government as delineated in the U.S. Constitution. I'm not so sure the same can be said about many today.
Re: Interestingly ...
Not really since at that time Cleveland was put on the $1000 bill. The question is when is it OK to change our minds about how important someone was? Jackson's life story is very interesting and very American. The passage of time doesn't change that. To put a Penn State spin on it, some want to change the name of Curtin Road to Paterno Way. Obviously Joe deserves every honor which comes his way but should it be at the expense of Governor Andrew Curtin who accomplished some great things in his own right?
Re: It can be a tight fit
This post was edited on 4/10 1:36 PM by NittPicker
AustinNit is the only person who would like things to be tightened up a bit. And Sir Mix-a-lot appreciates you appreciating him.Originally posted by ApexLion:
The seats could be widened. I like big seats, I cannot lie. Other than that, I like the Beav.
see what I did there?
This post was edited on 4/10 1:36 PM by NittPicker
Re: Interestingly ...
Good stuff Tom. Jackson was also a pig-headed idiot when it came to economic policy.
He spent most of his presidency trying to abolish the Bank of the United States (forerunner of the Fed). He finally succeeded, the bank shut down, and the country promptly went into a depression that lasted about a decade.
Which should be a lesson to these Republican crazy people who want to neuter (or, amazingly, abolish) the Federal Reserve today.
The spirit of Andrew Jackson is alive and well today all over the South and on Fox News, unfortunately.
Good stuff Tom. Jackson was also a pig-headed idiot when it came to economic policy.
He spent most of his presidency trying to abolish the Bank of the United States (forerunner of the Fed). He finally succeeded, the bank shut down, and the country promptly went into a depression that lasted about a decade.
Which should be a lesson to these Republican crazy people who want to neuter (or, amazingly, abolish) the Federal Reserve today.
The spirit of Andrew Jackson is alive and well today all over the South and on Fox News, unfortunately.
