MLB. Ohtani now in the 51 - 51 Club

[Parkland Fan]

First member. Went 6 for 6 today with 3 home runs, 2 doubles and a single. Drove in 10 runs and stole 2 bases.
Dodgers have 9 games remaining, so who knows how high his HR and SB will go.
Too bad the Dodgers have 7 starting pitchers on the IL.

 

[RickinDayton]

First member. Went 6 for 6 today with 3 home runs, 2 doubles and a single. Drove in 10 runs and stole 2 bases.
Dodgers have 9 games remaining, so who knows how high his HR and SB will go.
Too bad the Dodgers have 7 starting pitchers on the IL.

I know very little about baseball history. Have there been many other players who had that type of day at the plate?

 

[Kasparaitis]

I know very little about baseball history. Have there been many other players who had that type of day at the plate?

The Pirates Rennie Stennet had 7 hits in a 9 inning game. I do think the rules changes helped Ohtani in the stolen base department, but very impressive nonetheless.

 

[Parkland Fan]

I know very little about baseball history. Have there been many other players who had that type of day at the plate?

Probably some similar days, but no one has had aseason with 50 HRs and 50 SBs. I believe only 4 players ever had 40/40 seasons. I am guessing here - Canseco, Alex Rodriguez, Soriano and maybe Bonds.

 

[Parkland Fan]

The Pirates Rennie Stennet had 7 hits in a 9 inning game. I do think the rules changes helped Ohtani in the stolen base department, but very impressive nonetheless.

Just checked - Ohtani has only been caught stealing 4 times this year. That's an incredible success rate.

 

[LandoComando]

Probably some similar days, but no one has had aseason with 50 HRs and 50 SBs. I believe only 4 players ever had 40/40 seasons. I am guessing here - Canseco, Alex Rodriguez, Soriano and maybe Bonds.

Add Acuna who did it last year
Shawn Green, also for the Dodgers I think, jumps out to me as a similar game but without the SBs. I think he went 7-7 with 4 HRs and scored 6 or 7 runs--didn't have 10 RBIs though. Mark Whiten, also 4 HRs, has (or had) the record with 12 RBIs

 

[LemonEars]

The Dodger manager said that Ohtani might pitch in the playoffs. Ohtani is clearly the best player in baseball right now and might well be the best baseball player in history.

 

[LMTLION]

It has been a pleasure to watch both Ohtani and Judge this season. They’re both great players, but obviously Judge can’t pitch so there’s that!

 

[The Spin Meister]

I didn’t realize he was so good on the bases. Is there anything he does at a human level?

 

[bdroc]

First member. Went 6 for 6 today with 3 home runs, 2 doubles and a single. Drove in 10 runs and stole 2 bases.
Dodgers have 9 games remaining, so who knows how high his HR and SB will go.
Too bad the Dodgers have 7 starting pitchers on the IL.

I didn't know he stole that many bases and to be honest I'm surprised he's allowed to do so because of potential injury.

 

[Obliviax]

First member. Went 6 for 6 today with 3 home runs, 2 doubles and a single. Drove in 10 runs and stole 2 bases.
Dodgers have 9 games remaining, so who knows how high his HR and SB will go.
Too bad the Dodgers have 7 starting pitchers on the IL.

Good for Ohtani but I find it hard to like him. I loved him, at first. He seems very animated and likable. But I've soured on him:

• He clearly was involved in gambling but MLB found a way to sweep that under the table
• He deferred his salary so that he didn't have to pay taxes on it until his playing days are over and he can move to a tax haven. Now, I hate taxes and CA is the worst but that seems pretty underhanded to me
• I hate the Dodgers and Yankees and Mets. They've ruined baseball for many mid to low end markets. Now, I'll get the but, but, but responses in terms of overall World Series victories. I counter that this is only one measure. Tons of kids are disappointed because their star player went to play for a massive salary in NY, LA or SFO.

So I respect Ohtani and what he has accomplished. Truely a break out player who can end up being in the discussion with guys like Ruth and Mantle. But I am not a huge fan of him, personally.

 

[LandoComando]

Good for Ohtani but I find it hard to like him. I loved him, at first. He seems very animated and likable. But I've soured on him:

• He clearly was involved in gambling but MLB found a way to sweep that under the table
• He deferred his salary so that he didn't have to pay taxes on it until his playing days are over and he can move to a tax haven. Now, I hate taxes and CA is the worst but that seems pretty underhanded to me
• I hate the Dodgers and Yankees and Mets. They've ruined baseball for many mid to low end markets. Now, I'll get the but, but, but responses in terms of overall World Series victories. I counter that this is only one measure. Tons of kids are disappointed because their star player went to play for a massive salary in NY, LA or SFO.

So I respect Ohtani and what he has accomplished. Truely a break out player who can end up being in the discussion with guys like Ruth and Mantle. But I am not a huge fan of him, personally.

Always have a fall guy lol
If nothing else he's incredibly intelligent for that and the taxes.
Just let Rose in the HOF and all is good

 

[mfb5053]

Good for Ohtani but I find it hard to like him. I loved him, at first. He seems very animated and likable. But I've soured on him:

• He clearly was involved in gambling but MLB found a way to sweep that under the table
• He deferred his salary so that he didn't have to pay taxes on it until his playing days are over and he can move to a tax haven. Now, I hate taxes and CA is the worst but that seems pretty underhanded to me
• I hate the Dodgers and Yankees and Mets. They've ruined baseball for many mid to low end markets. Now, I'll get the but, but, but responses in terms of overall World Series victories. I counter that this is only one measure. Tons of kids are disappointed because their star player went to play for a massive salary in NY, LA or SFO.

So I respect Ohtani and what he has accomplished. Truely a break out player who can end up being in the discussion with guys like Ruth and Mantle. But I am not a huge fan of him, personally.

The tax avoidance strategy doesn’t bother me. But the competitive advantage from only having to pay the best player in baseball Pennies on the dollar seems like it could be an issue.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Good for Ohtani but I find it hard to like him. I loved him, at first. He seems very animated and likable. But I've soured on him:

• He clearly was involved in gambling but MLB found a way to sweep that under the table
• He deferred his salary so that he didn't have to pay taxes on it until his playing days are over and he can move to a tax haven. Now, I hate taxes and CA is the worst but that seems pretty underhanded to me
• I hate the Dodgers and Yankees and Mets. They've ruined baseball for many mid to low end markets. Now, I'll get the but, but, but responses in terms of overall World Series victories. I counter that this is only one measure. Tons of kids are disappointed because their star player went to play for a massive salary in NY, LA or SFO.

So I respect Ohtani and what he has accomplished. Truely a break out player who can end up being in the discussion with guys like Ruth and Mantle. But I am not a huge fan of him, personally.

He is just another overpaid self centered athlete. Sports has gotten really corrupt top to bottom.

But there are still good people in sports. Sid Crosby just signed an extension with the Pens for a mere $8.7 million per year (get it …. #87 getting 8.7?) when he could have gotten much more as a free agent,

He did so because he wants to stay in Pittsburgh plus he didn’t want to handcuff the team with salary cap issues. Winning another Stanley Cup is more important to him.

 

[Parkland Fan]

Good for Ohtani but I find it hard to like him. I loved him, at first. He seems very animated and likable. But I've soured on him:

• He clearly was involved in gambling but MLB found a way to sweep that under the table
• He deferred his salary so that he didn't have to pay taxes on it until his playing days are over and he can move to a tax haven. Now, I hate taxes and CA is the worst but that seems pretty underhanded to me
• I hate the Dodgers and Yankees and Mets. They've ruined baseball for many mid to low end markets. Now, I'll get the but, but, but responses in terms of overall World Series victories. I counter that this is only one measure. Tons of kids are disappointed because their star player went to play for a massive salary in NY, LA or SFO.

So I respect Ohtani and what he has accomplished. Truely a break out player who can end up being in the discussion with guys like Ruth and Mantle. But I am not a huge fan of him, personally.

The salary deferment was to ease the salary cap problem in the first few years. It gave the Dodgers room to sign Yamamoto.

 

[Parkland Fan]

I didn't know he stole that many bases and to be honest I'm surprised he's allowed to do so because of potential injury.

Ohtani is one of the few base stealers who slides feet first to protect his hands and arms.

 

[bdgan]

The tax avoidance strategy doesn’t bother me. But the competitive advantage from only having to pay the best player in baseball Pennies on the dollar seems like it could be an issue.

Tax planning is smart.

I don't understand the competitive advantage you claim.

I'm not an expert on competitive advantage wrt deferred compensation but I found this:
"If you defer $10M of 2024 salary to a later date, but that $10M is accruing interest at a rate that is at the Imputed Loan Interest Rate, or within 1.5% either way, then for CBT purposes, that $10M in deferred salary is treated as if it were paid in 2024. It is $10M for CBT purposes, whether paid now or paid later."

 

[LandoComando]

He is just another overpaid self centered athlete. Sports has gotten really corrupt top to bottom.

But there are still good people in sports. Sid Crosby just signed an extension with the Pens for a mere $8.7 million per year (get it …. #87 getting 8.7?) when he could have gotten much more as a free agent,

He did so because he wants to stay in Pittsburgh plus he didn’t want to handcuff the team with salary cap issues. Winning another Stanley Cup is more important to him.

If winning another Cup mattered he'd have taken less to go to a contender. The Pens may not even make the playoffs.

Don't pretend this is about anything other than legacy or that he's anything other than an employee. The goal of most is to maximize your income. No one can be criticized for that.

He also handcuffed us with the cap by demanding we keep his buddies

 

[Obliviax]

He is just another overpaid self centered athlete. Sports has gotten really corrupt top to bottom.

But there are still good people in sports. Sid Crosby just signed an extension with the Pens for a mere $8.7 million per year (get it …. #87 getting 8.7?) when he could have gotten much more as a free agent,

He did so because he wants to stay in Pittsburgh plus he didn’t want to handcuff the team with salary cap issues. Winning another Stanley Cup is more important to him.

well, yes, I agree. On the other hand, if I was Ohtani, I'd take all I can get.

As one great athlete once said after signing a big contract when asked if he felt guilty he said "I used to, then I realized somebody had the money to pay it."

I don't blame the players. They have a one-time shot to make generational money. I blame the owners who are already billionaires and are taking public money, for not arranging a better framework for franchises in all markets.

 

[mfb5053]

Tax planning is smart.

I don't understand the competitive advantage you claim.

I'm not an expert on competitive advantage wrt deferred compensation but I found this:
"If you defer $10M of 2024 salary to a later date, but that $10M is accruing interest at a rate that is at the Imputed Loan Interest Rate, or within 1.5% either way, then for CBT purposes, that $10M in deferred salary is treated as if it were paid in 2024. It is $10M for CBT purposes, whether paid now or paid later."

I may be missing something but $68M a year is not going out the door that otherwise would be paid. Yes that $68M is included in the luxury tax computation but it’s still available for the dodgers to pay to other players.

 

[LandoComando]

I may be missing something but $68M a year is not going out the door that otherwise would be paid. Yes that $68M is included in the luxury tax computation but it’s still available for the dodgers to pay to other players.

Do you think the Dodgers really need that money to pay others? As long as it's included in the luxury tax I don't see the issue

 

[LandoComando]

Impressive

Since RBI became official in 1920, only one MLB player has had, over the course of his entire career (same game or not).
a game with 10+ RBI
a game with 6+ hits
a game with 5+ XBH
a game with 3+ HR
a game with 2+ SB

That one player is Shohei Ohtani. He did all of it today.

 

[Kasparaitis]

If winning another Cup mattered he'd have taken less to go to a contender. The Pens may not even make the playoffs.

Don't pretend this is about anything other than legacy or that he's anything other than an employee. The goal of most is to maximize your income. No one can be criticized for that.

He also handcuffed us with the cap by demanding we keep his buddies

Little Lando, talking out his ass once again. Seriously, you’re like a computer hacker. If you put the effort you do spreading bull$hit on this message board into a productive activity you could have retired in Costa Rica by now.

 

[bvillebaron]

First member. Went 6 for 6 today with 3 home runs, 2 doubles and a single. Drove in 10 runs and stole 2 bases.
Dodgers have 9 games remaining, so who knows how high his HR and SB will go.
Too bad the Dodgers have 7 starting pitchers on the IL.

Phenomenal performance.

 

[Obliviax]

Do you think the Dodgers really need that money to pay others? As long as it's included in the luxury tax I don't see the issue

my understanding is that this was done for Ohtani for tax avoidance. He could play in TX where he would have zero state income tax. So the CA teams are considering payment deferral of a large portion so that the payment is made to a person no longer living in or playing for a team in USA/CA. That substantially lessens the tax burden (or that is what was being reported). I don't think it has much to do with the Dodgers or the salary cap but I could easily be wrong on that. It was reported that this was requested by Ohtani's people.

 

[knickslions]

It’s amazing that if they didn’t add DH to the nl in 2022 he probably be on Yankees

 

[Mufasa94]

It has been a pleasure to watch both Ohtani and Judge this season. They’re both great players, but obviously Judge can’t pitch so there’s that!

Ohtani isn’t pitching this year either, and the only fielding he pretty much does is when he is pitching.

This is by far Ohtani’s best season batting. The unknown reason is it because he has other stars protecting him in lineup, other stars relieving some of the pressure, and/or no distraction with pitching, or some combination thereof.

Even with the monster Ohtani game, Judge has produced more runs this year (as has Witt).

 

[ryoder1]

Ohtani has great speed and runs out hard every ground ball. He doesn't take a play off and if the ball is not fielded cleanly he beats the throw. Even if it is a clean fielding play he has a shot to beat it out if it is hit deep to short or third.

Once on he obviously can steal bases and get in scoring position. Then his power is incredible. He can reach out with a flick of the wrist and drive a ball out opposite field.

I really like the guy but then again I'm a Dodgers fan.

 

[The Spin Meister]