MSU (and Iowa to an extent) games past, present and future

[LionsandBear]

As I sit here watching the Purdue game in 60 on BTN, I'm still in awe of the way we rotate players at just about every position seamlessly throughout the game.

It's amazing to me that there's no noticeable dropoff throughout the game. This will be the major difference between the close losses that we've suffered against MSU in the past and the outcome yet to be determined this year.

In the past MSU's game plan was to keep posession, wear us down defensively and keep the score close giving them a chance to steal a W at the end. That will not happen this year! Our rotation will keep our guys fresh and our superior talent will win the day. IMO, our days of losing to inferior MSU teams are over starting this year.

Thoughts?

 

[Cpeplion]

I see it like this...

Sanction era: last chance for the Maryland's, Northwestern's, Purdue's, Indiana's of the BIG world to compete or beat PSU....This era is over and one of these teams may beat a PSU team once every 10 years at best.

Recovery era: PSU is more on par with the likes of Iowa, MSU, Nebraska, Michigan...these teams were a basically a toss-up...PSU had talent but it was raw and didn't have the depth to finish games

Full Franklin Era: PSU is more on OSU's level in terms of depth and overall athletic ability...the OSU game should be the only game that could be won by either team and most likely IMHO will come down to coaching and tactics. Teams that could beat us during the sanction era won't beat PSU but once every 10 years or so...Teams from the second tier will struggle to beat PSU and may do so once every 5 years.

I fully expect PSU to be on a championship level from here on out. Anything less than a 10-2 season should be a disappointment.

 

[LionsandBear]

I see it like this...

Sanction era: last chance for the Maryland's, Northwestern's, Purdue's, Indiana's of the BIG world to compete or beat PSU....This era is over and one of these teams may beat a PSU team once every 10 years at best.

Recovery era: PSU is more on par with the likes of Iowa, MSU, Nebraska, Michigan...these teams were a basically a toss-up...PSU had talent but it was raw and didn't have the depth to finish games

Full Franklin Era: PSU is more on OSU's level in terms of depth and overall athletic ability...the OSU game should be the only game that could be won by either team and most likely IMHO will come down to coaching and tactics. Teams that could beat us during the sanction era won't beat PSU but once every 10 years or so...Teams from the second tier will struggle to beat PSU and may do so once every 5 years.

I fully expect PSU to be on a championship level from here on out. Anything less than a 10-2 season should be a disappointment.

Excellent points. This team and this year is the beginning of the vision and plan that CJF had for this program when he took over.

 

[ram2020]

Im sorry to be a downer, but I don't think we can expect to beat the top most physical teams consistently until we have a truly dominant O-line. Yes, we have elite athleticism and speed, we have had those in the past, we now have a TON of seasoned depth, which is a new improvement, but we still do not have a dominant O-line. I have some concerns about our O-coordinator and offensive approach, but maybe not as much as others. Simply put, physical, tough defensive football teams will be able to hang with us and still remain "toss ups" until we have a physical O-line and running games.

I heard a ton last year about how slow MSU and Iowa were, how they simply could not keep up with our elite athletes all over the field. We lost to a depleted MSU team(i guess their depth isnt so bad) and really should have lost to IOWA minus that crazy play at the goaline. If clifford is under siege in these games and our inside zone runs get stuffed all day, our elite speed/athleticism/ or depth isn't going to mean a lick.

 

[LionsandBear]

Im sorry to be a downer, but I don't think we can expect to beat the top most physical teams consistently until we have a truly dominant O-line. Yes, we have elite athleticism and speed, we have had those in the past, we now have a TON of seasoned depth, which is a new improvement, but we still do not have a dominant O-line. I have some concerns about our O-coordinator and offensive approach, but maybe not as much as others. Simply put, physical, tough defensive football teams will be able to hang with us and still remain "toss ups" until we have a physical O-line and running games.

I heard a ton last year about how slow MSU and Iowa were, how they simply could not keep up with our elite athletes all over the field. We lost to a depleted MSU team(i guess their depth isnt so bad) and really should have lost to IOWA minus that crazy play at the goaline. If clifford is under siege in these games and our inside zone runs get stuffed all day, our elite speed/athleticism/ or depth isn't going to mean a lick.

Both Iowa and MSU have taken a step back along the DL from years past. I don't think they have the players to dominate our OL the way they would need to in order to win these games.

 

[ram2020]

Both Iowa and MSU have taken a step back along the DL from years past. I don't think they have the players to dominate our OL the way they would need to in order to win these games.

Okay, let's hope.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

As I sit here watching the Purdue game in 60 on BTN, I'm still in awe of the way we rotate players at just about every position seamlessly throughout the game.

It's amazing to me that there's no noticeable dropoff throughout the game. This will be the major difference between the close losses that we've suffered against MSU in the past and the outcome yet to be determined this year.

In the past MSU's game plan was to keep posession, wear us down defensively and keep the score close giving them a chance to steal a W at the end. That will not happen this year! Our rotation will keep our guys fresh and our superior talent will win the day. IMO, our days of losing to inferior MSU teams are over starting this year.

Thoughts?

Agree. Plus, call the games the way you got ahead and keep calling the game (with only adjustments as truly necessary) till the very end. Keep the pedal to the floor. I love CJF's win each 8 second game (or something to that effect).

 

[Ughhh]

Im sorry to be a downer, but I don't think we can expect to beat the top most physical teams consistently until we have a truly dominant O-line. Yes, we have elite athleticism and speed, we have had those in the past, we now have a TON of seasoned depth, which is a new improvement, but we still do not have a dominant O-line. I have some concerns about our O-coordinator and offensive approach, but maybe not as much as others. Simply put, physical, tough defensive football teams will be able to hang with us and still remain "toss ups" until we have a physical O-line and running games.

I heard a ton last year about how slow MSU and Iowa were, how they simply could not keep up with our elite athletes all over the field. We lost to a depleted MSU team(i guess their depth isnt so bad) and really should have lost to IOWA minus that crazy play at the goaline. If clifford is under siege in these games and our inside zone runs get stuffed all day, our elite speed/athleticism/ or depth isn't going to mean a lick.

Clemson won the 2016 national title with a LT and RT who couldn’t stay in front of a tree stump.

Get the ball out quick, threaten each gap and outside the hashes, put the back 7 in run-pass conflict. Welcome to 2019 football

 

[michnittlion]

Hopefully we're checking weather forecasts this time around (and making sure to bring extra uniforms or heating units on that big old truck of ours). No more repeats of 2017 MSU or 2008 Iowa please.

 

[ram2020]

Clemson won the 2016 national title with a LT and RT who couldn’t stay in front of a tree stump.

Get the ball out quick, threaten each gap and outside the hashes, put the back 7 in run-pass conflict. Welcome to 2019 football

Right, but does our offense utilize those principles? Do me a favor, reply to me after we stuff Iowa AND MSU's defensive lines and our elite athleticism is on display all over the field as we race to commanding victories.If 2019 football is anything like 2018 football, color me unimpressed.

The posters viewpoint suggests teams like Iowa, Michigan, and MSU's are not in the same league as us, they can at best expect to beat us 1 every 5 years. I find that hard to believe at this stage considering we are not elite at running the ball or blocking.

 

[MontereyLion]

As I sit here watching the Purdue game in 60 on BTN, I'm still in awe of the way we rotate players at just about every position seamlessly throughout the game.

It's amazing to me that there's no noticeable dropoff throughout the game. This will be the major difference between the close losses that we've suffered against MSU in the past and the outcome yet to be determined this year.

In the past MSU's game plan was to keep posession, wear us down defensively and keep the score close giving them a chance to steal a W at the end. That will not happen this year! Our rotation will keep our guys fresh and our superior talent will win the day. IMO, our days of losing to inferior MSU teams are over starting this year.

Thoughts?

I predicted this preseason. Until this season Franklin has never had the quality depth to win big games in the fourth quarter. His first strings have been good even with some great players. But because the depth of talent wasn't there he had to leave the first stringers in for too much of games. This is really the first year that he could substitute without much fall off. The question I had preseason was....would he do it? Would he really commit to building depth or not. You can't build depth if you don't try to build depth. Well guess what...he did it. As long as he keeps substituting we will have a team that isn't worn down in the fourth quarter and can close out games. No more close losses like in the Rose Bowl and the last 2 Ohio State games because we didn't have enough good players to spell the first team and they just pooped out. That doesn't mean we won't lose games. This is just another piece in the puzzle that is going undefeated and playing in the Play Off.

 

[Howie'81]

Right, but does our offense utilize those principles? Do me a favor, reply to me after we stuff Iowa AND MSU's defensive lines and our elite athleticism is on display all over the field as we race to commanding victories.If 2019 football is anything like 2018 football, color me unimpressed.

The posters viewpoint suggests teams like Iowa, Michigan, and MSU's are not in the same league as us, they can at best expect to beat us 1 every 5 years. I find that hard to believe at this stage considering we are not elite at running the ball or blocking.

Uh, Iowa last beat us in 2010.

 

[LionsandBear]

The posters viewpoint suggests teams like Iowa, Michigan, and MSU's are not in the same league as us, they can at best expect to beat us 1 every 5 years. I find that hard to believe at this stage considering we are not elite at running the ball or blocking.

I think many would be surprised to know that in regards to Yards Per Rushing Attempt we are 26th in the nation with an average of 5.16. As a comparison the run oriented offense of Wisconsin is averaging 5.43.

 

[Ughhh]

Right, but does our offense utilize those principles? Do me a favor, reply to me after we stuff Iowa AND MSU's defensive lines and our elite athleticism is on display all over the field as we race to commanding victories.If 2019 football is anything like 2018 football, color me unimpressed.

The posters viewpoint suggests teams like Iowa, Michigan, and MSU's are not in the same league as us, they can at best expect to beat us 1 every 5 years. I find that hard to believe at this stage considering we are not elite at running the ball or blocking.

2018 Penn State football? Where the team mailed it in after blowing the OSU game and McSorley got hurt? How do you draw any conclusions from that?

MSU, Iowa and Michigan have combined to win, what 1 conference title this decade? They are not in the same league as the top spread offenses in CFB

 

[Cpeplion]

Right, but does our offense utilize those principles? Do me a favor, reply to me after we stuff Iowa AND MSU's defensive lines and our elite athleticism is on display all over the field as we race to commanding victories.If 2019 football is anything like 2018 football, color me unimpressed.

The posters viewpoint suggests teams like Iowa, Michigan, and MSU's are not in the same league as us, they can at best expect to beat us 1 every 5 years. I find that hard to believe at this stage considering we are not elite at running the ball or blocking.

Actually, I said that not the OP....don't forget to add Nebraska in that group too.

 

[SUPERTODD]

I think many would be surprised to know that in regards to Yards Per Rushing Attempt we are 26th in the nation with an average of 5.16. As a comparison the run oriented offense of Wisconsin is averaging 5.43.

Also we are in the top 15 in the country in total offense. This has been an elite offense. Early in the year teams could stack the box and blitz constantly and dare Clifford to beat them. The kid has 5 career starts and has already made it evident that if teams do that they are going to pay big time.

 

[NewEra 2014]

Actually, I said that not the OP....don't forget to add Nebraska in that group too.

This may not be a popular take, but I think we can expect to see Nebraska on the level of Purdue, MD, NW, and MN going forward. They are going to be hard-pressed to be on the level of Iowa, Mich, or MSU going forward, given Frost's cold start to winning games and recruiting.

 

[ram2020]

Boy, lot of chest bumping for a team that just lost to Kentucky 7 months ago and is 1-4 against MSU. I sure hope you guys are right and these teams are not in our league. I dont know how that can be backed up empirically, but I'll be the first to eat crow if we display that on the field.

 

[Howie'81]

Boy, lot of chest bumping for a team that just lost to Kentucky 7 months ago and is 1-4 against MSU. I sure hope you guys are right and these teams are not in our league. I dont know how that can be backed up empirically, but I'll be the first to eat crow if we display that on the field.

You mean it's not a new season and a new team? Who knew?

 

[ram2020]

You mean it's not a new season and a new team? Who knew?

Wow, we should turn this thread into the eternal optimists thread where any measure of reason outside of our team being in a different league than 12 other teams in our division is cast off. I'll gracefully leave, I hope you guys are right, we will start to find out over the next 3 weeks. I'll circle this thread, hope you guys do too.

 

[gr82baspartan]

2018 Penn State football? Where the team mailed it in after blowing the OSU game and McSorley got hurt? How do you draw any conclusions from that?

MSU, Iowa and Michigan have combined to win, what 1 conference title this decade? They are not in the same league as the top spread offenses in CFB

Two outright.

,,,cheers

 

[Raffycorn]

Wow, we should turn this thread into the eternal optimists thread where any measure of reason outside of our team being in a different league than 12 other teams in our division is cast off. I'll gracefully leave, I hope you guys are right, we will start to find out over the next 3 weeks. I'll circle this thread, hope you guys do too.

Please do! This team is very good; it’s okay to think so, I promise.

 

[ram2020]

Please do! This team is very good; it’s okay to think so, I promise.

I do think they are good. Really good, they just need to prove they can beat upper echelon teams consistently before I start spouting off that these teams we are 1-4 against arent in our league.

 

[Ughhh]

I do think they are good. Really good, they just need to prove they can beat upper echelon teams consistently before I start spouting off that these teams we are 1-4 against arent in our league.

But you apparently don’t need to consider the context of the past two games before you start trashing your own team.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I like this roster a whole bunch right now. It's young, fast, and deep. Anything can happen when you play those guys...and even more so on the road, but you have to like where this roster is at. I mean defensively....it's freakish. Porter, Smith, Isaac....those are some scary dudes and they are frosh. The 2 deep across the board is talented on D...every single spot. Almost 3 deep too for the most part. I still think the O is growing, but I like the fact this D can carry them for a while if they are struggling.

 

[Ughhh]

How many times in the last 50 years - even with the winningest coach in the history of college football - did PSU win 10 or more games?


Good Grief


(Answer: Roughly 2 out of every 5 years..... if you include Bowl wins)

We play more games than we used to. We play 2-3 OOC patsies and Rutgers + Maryland + 1-2 Big Ten West patsies every year. That’s ~5 wins from logistics getting the team and the equipment to the game on time

 

[ram2020]

But you apparently don’t need to consider the context of the past two games before you start trashing your own team.

Trashing???? Ibsaid the o line needs to be dominant before we can write off the MSUs of the world. Hardly trashing, come on.

 

[Ughhh]

Trashing???? Ibsaid the o line needs to be dominant before we can write off the MSUs of the world. Hardly trashing, come on.

You’re fixated on 1-4 while ignoring how irrelevant the 17 and 18 games were due to losing to OSU game immediately prior in both years, and you’re thinking a game from 5 years ago is still relevant, you come on

 

[ram2020]

You’re fixated on 1-4 while ignoring how irrelevant the 17 and 18 games were due to losing to OSU game immediately prior in both years, and you’re thinking a game from 5 years ago is still relevant, you come on

Hang on, you are pacifying the losses to michigan, michigan state and a bowl loss because we lost a close game to OSU??? Again, I am disputing the notion that we have reached an apex in talent and depth that makes it so that teams that we literally lost to last year, basically can only hope to beat us one out of 5 times. Regardless of how much of a fan you are, or I am, that's insane. Look, we have a good team this year, based on our opponents so far, i think maybe really good, but there are only a handful of teams in the country that could treat an MSU like a trap game, a once every 5 year threat, we simply are not at that level yet. Not until at least we can beat them? Is that overly pessimistic or irrational? Does that honestly make me a troll fan? I'm not trashing my team, but we just are not there yet. Again, if we curb stomp iowa and michigan i will eat crow, gladly.

 

[ram2020]

You’re fixated on 1-4 while ignoring how irrelevant the 17 and 18 games were due to losing to OSU game immediately prior in both years, and you’re thinking a game from 5 years ago is still relevant, you come on

Yes a game from 5 years ago IS relevant when someone says the MSU's of the world can only hope to beat us 1 out of every FIVE years. We are 1 and 4 against them, how delusional of a concept is that?

 

[Madsol]

I do think they are good. Really good, they just need to prove they can beat upper echelon teams consistently before I start spouting off that these teams we are 1-4 against arent in our league.

I think you're taking a very pessimistic view of the 2019 team. That's your choice but that's what I see. But I do agree with you that I would never label Iowa and MSU and especially Michigan as "not in our league." I do think we are building a quality of depth that will make losses to the Iowa and MSU types more of the upset variety. Michigan? Goodness knows, I really don't like Michigan. But they've cleaned our clocks 2 of the last 3 years. You have to give the devil his due. Michigan has too much history and too many resources to be "not in our league" IMHO.

 

[ram2020]

I think you're taking a very pessimistic view of the 2019 team. That's your choice but that's what I see. But I do agree with you that I would never label Iowa and MSU and especially Michigan as "not in our league." I do think we are building a quality of depth that will make losses to the Iowa and MSU types more of the upset variety. Michigan? Goodness knows, I really don't like Michigan. But they've cleaned our clocks 2 of the last 3 years. You have to give the devil his due. Michigan has too much history and too many resources to be "not in our league" IMHO.

Okay, so you agree with all my points but preface that by saying I am "taking a very pessimistic view of our team?"

Am I loosing my mind? Can someone throw me a life raft? Again, we are not superior to teams we have not beaten on the field......if that is pessimistic, then I dont know what to tell you guys. I am saying we need to beat these teams consistently before we start talking about how they are not in our league. You know, why they play the fricken game?

 

[Madsol]

Okay, so you agree with all my points but preface that by saying I am "taking a very pessimistic view of our team?"

Am I loosing my mind? Can someone throw me a life raft? Again, we are not superior to teams we have not beaten on the field......if that is pessimistic, then I dont know what to tell you guys. I am saying we need to beat these teams consistently before we start talking about how they are not in our league. You know, why they play the fricken game?

Why I said you're being pessimistic is because you're implying that because we haven't had much success against those teams in the past, we won't have much success moving forward. And that's where I think you're way, way undervaluing the 2019 team. This team has a level of depth athletically that the teams the past several years couldn't come close to touching. Look at running back. While we don't have a Barkley or a Sanders, we have 4 pretty high level RBs. We have WRs that can catch (!!!!!) and block and do something with the ball after they catch it. Friermuth has all-American in his future. And Bowers is developing into a nice weapon. And Clifford has made 5 starts and is growing into a high level QB right before our eyes. And I haven't even touched on the defense!! So yes, I agree with you that it is a mistake to label teams like Iowa and MSU and Michigan as not in our league. BUT, that in no way suggests that I think we're going to struggle against them because some of our recent teams have struggled against them. This team is a new breed of cat. Better jump on board before you miss a fun ride.

 

[royboy]

I like this roster a whole bunch right now. It's young, fast, and deep. Anything can happen when you play those guys...and even more so on the road, but you have to like where this roster is at. I mean defensively....it's freakish. Porter, Smith, Isaac....those are some scary dudes and they are frosh. The 2 deep across the board is talented on D...every single spot. Almost 3 deep too for the most part. I still think the O is growing, but I like the fact this D can carry them for a while if they are struggling.

Yeah, it hits me when I watch Luketa play. The guy is a beast! And there are three Linebackers better or potentially better (I'm counting Cam Brown, Parsons, and the potential of Brandon Smith)? Wow.

Chances are really good this depth will play a factor in one of the remaining games. What a pleasure it will be to see the team come from behind late, or widen out a lead vs a good team.

 

[ram2020]

Why I said you're being pessimistic is because you're implying that because we haven't had much success against those teams in the past, we won't have much success moving forward. And that's where I think you're way, way undervaluing the 2019 team. This team has a level of depth athletically that the teams the past several years couldn't come close to touching. Look at running back. While we don't have a Barkley or a Sanders, we have 4 pretty high level RBs. We have WRs that can catch (!!!!!) and block and do something with the ball after they catch it. Friermuth has all-American in his future. And Bowers is developing into a nice weapon. And Clifford has made 5 starts and is growing into a high level QB right before out eyes. And I haven't even touched on the defense!! So yes, I agree with you that it is a mistake to label teams like Iowa and MSU and Michigan as not in our league. BUT, that in no way suggests that I think we're going to struggle against them because some of our recent teams have struggled against them. This team is a new breed of cat. Better jump on board before you miss a fun ride.

Okay, fair enough. Our future projections are higher than they have been, I get the point. Can we both agree let's beat them this year and begin proving it?

 

[Madsol]

Okay, fair enough. Our future projections are higher than they have been, I get the point. Can we both agree let's beat them this year and begin proving it?

Yes. I agree, at some point the excuses have to stop and the wins have to happen. MSU in 2017 was just a weird, freakish thing the week after a devastating come from ahead loss to OSU. Last year MSU should never have happened. We need to exorcise that demon and soon.

 

[Howie'81]

Wow, we should turn this thread into the eternal optimists thread where any measure of reason outside of our team being in a different league than 12 other teams in our division is cast off. I'll gracefully leave, I hope you guys are right, we will start to find out over the next 3 weeks. I'll circle this thread, hope you guys do too.

I'm the realist. You're the pessimists.

 

[ram2020]

I'm the realist. Your the pessimists.

How? I literally dont know what I said that was pessimistic. We are really good, our o line is not dominant, we cant overlook teams like MSU you know, because they beat us regularly. What have I said is not realistic but rather pessimistic? Please, educate me.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Trashing???? Ibsaid the o line needs to be dominant before we can write off the MSUs of the world. Hardly trashing, come on.

As long as Dantonio is there....when we go out there it will be a tough out. The good news is that this roster is as talented as it has been in a long time. While it is young and they are learning...this defense can carry a subar OL and offense while the grow. Again...@MSU, @Iowa, @Wisky, @tOSU, and @UM.....will probably never be an easy W in most years. This staff has won some big games and lost some....but they are building a pretty damn good roster. Think about the 3 deep right now on defense....yes...3 deep. Brandon Smith is a FREAK. ISSAC is a freak. Oweh...it goes on and on. They are just young so you're right to be a bit skeptical....but I think most would agree outside of tOSU...PSU is in a pretty decent spot.

PSU can drop these road games, but it won't be a shock if they win them either. I think most think we are a good young team, but we still have that eye raised.....because we haven't been in that big BT fight yet. Let's watch to see how these young guys do and they are young.

 

[Erial_Lion]

How? I literally dont know what I said that was pessimistic. We are really good, our o line is not dominant, we cant overlook teams like MSU you know, because they beat us regularly. What have I said is not realistic but rather pessimistic? Please, educate me.

I agree.

I love our future, but I’m only cautiously optimistic about our present. We are still really young, and I don’t know if come Saturday night we’ll see the team that throttled Maryland, or the team that an average Pitt squad took to the wire at our place.