NCAA denies ND football appeal - forced to vacate 21 wins

[john4psu]

https://www.ndinsider.com/football/...cle_88e31422-b28a-11e7-a1a8-63391e5141e7.html

Notre Dame will be forced to erase 21 wins from the 2012 and 2013 seasons, most notably the undefeated 12-0 regular season in 2012. The reflected changes drop Notre Dame's all-time winning percentage from .729 to .727 and the all-time win total from 906 to 885.

The aforementioned .727 all-time winning percentage remains second nationally, behind only Michigan (.729). Notre Dame's national standing in total wins drops from second to sixth, behind Michigan (943), Texas (898), Ohio State (898), Nebraska (893) and Alabama (891).

As Mel Allen used to say, "How about that."

 

[BobPSU92]

Please take this opportunity to remember that Penn State has a culture problem.

 

[MtNittany]

 

[LionDeNittany]

https://www.ndinsider.com/football/...cle_88e31422-b28a-11e7-a1a8-63391e5141e7.html

Notre Dame will be forced to erase 21 wins from the 2012 and 2013 seasons, most notably the undefeated 12-0 regular season in 2012. The reflected changes drop Notre Dame's all-time winning percentage from .729 to .727 and the all-time win total from 906 to 885.

The aforementioned .727 all-time winning percentage remains second nationally, behind only Michigan (.729). Notre Dame's national standing in total wins drops from second to sixth, behind Michigan (943), Texas (898), Ohio State (898), Nebraska (893) and Alabama (891).

As Mel Allen used to say, "How about that."

That's what you get for self reporting.

LdN

 

[NittPicker]

The article mentioned a real blast from the past - Ishaq Williams. There was drama around his recruitment and some PSU fans were bent out of shape over missing out on him. Turns out his career was pretty unremarkable.

 

[Nitt1300]

I've never understood the concept of pretending that a game won on the field didn't happen.

 

[Judge Smails]

 

[psu00]

Not a ND fan at all, but this ncaa vacating wins penalty is such nonsense. I’m waiting for the first university to just ignore the ncaa and continue to list the ‘vacated’ wins in the records anyway. What’s the ncaa going to do about it?

 

[pandaczar12]

Sadly, no matter how many games they vacate, Declan Sullivan will still be dead.

 

[MtNittany]

Lizzy Seeberg not available for comment...

 

[PSU87]

Manti Teo's imaginary girlfriend couldn't be reached for comment

 

[Obliviax]

coincidentally, Pitt just claimed the 2012 and 2013 national championships.

 

[ram2020]

I hate ND as much as the rest, but they have a fair argument here. How is punishment meted out by the NCAA in this case, but not at all in the UNC case. ND reported this as part of their "honor code," they bring up a fair argument in suggesting that this will just lead to the abolishment of honor codes at schools involving high profile athletes.

 

[Howie'81]

I've never understood the concept of pretending that a game won on the field didn't happen.

View embedded media

Yeah, kind of ridiculous. I guess the argument would be "unfairly" won on the field, which was not the case when we got hit with that. Justice deserved that we got them back and we did.

 

[fairgambit]

NOT SO FAST!! Notre Dame has filed a 2nd appeal, it was already heard, and the sentence has been changed. Now they must give up those 21 wins, but only for Lent.

 

[BobPSU92]

NOT SO FAST!! Notre Dame has filed a 2nd appeal, it was already heard, and the sentence has been changed. Now they must give up those 21 wins, but only for Lent.

Did notre dame throw a Hail Mary to the ncaa?

 

[delcoLion]

https://www.ndinsider.com/football/...cle_88e31422-b28a-11e7-a1a8-63391e5141e7.html

Notre Dame will be forced to erase 21 wins from the 2012 and 2013 seasons, most notably the undefeated 12-0 regular season in 2012. The reflected changes drop Notre Dame's all-time winning percentage from .729 to .727 and the all-time win total from 906 to 885.

The aforementioned .727 all-time winning percentage remains second nationally, behind only Michigan (.729). Notre Dame's national standing in total wins drops from second to sixth, behind Michigan (943), Texas (898), Ohio State (898), Nebraska (893) and Alabama (891).

As Mel Allen used to say, "How about that."

And UNC skates.

 

[psu00]

I hate ND as much as the rest, but they have a fair argument here. How is punishment meted out by the NCAA in this case, but not at all in the UNC case. ND reported this as part of their "honor code," they bring up a fair argument in suggesting that this will just lead to the abolishment of honor codes at schools involving high profile athletes.

This is a very valid point. ND should throw this right back at the ncaa with tv interviews and just say they are ignoring such an arbitrary ruling. It’s funny how ncaa academic fraud penalties apply to some (ND) but not others (UNC).

This is just more proof of the ridiculous and insular ncaa which has no consistency.

 

[Bob78]

Yeah, kind of ridiculous. I guess the argument would be "unfairly" won on the field, which was not the case when we got hit with that. Justice deserved that we got them back and we did.

Agree. It's not like they falsified the identities of a dozen current NFLers to come back and play and win a few for the Gipper. That is an unfair win; self-reporting an academic issue is not.
So the players technically should not have played. Fine them, restrict recruiting trips, or something of punishment-fitting-the-crime nature.

The NCAA leadership needs to just go away and let a handful of people with some common sense take over college sports oversight. Because the NCAA ain't got much of that sometimes uncommon common sense.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

The article mentioned a real blast from the past - Ishaq Williams. There was drama around his recruitment and some PSU fans were bent out of shape over missing out on him. Turns out his career was pretty unremarkable.

Totally, but he was one heck of a prospect, was seemingly in PSU’s pocket and then poof—lost. Your point is valid but still sounds like sour grapes.

Personally, I regret we lost out on him, both for his sake and the football program’s. He could have been great on the field and would certainly have been pushed to be better in the classroom if he were here.

That these major institutions with top football programs exist FOR the betterment of the students, including student-athletes, seems to be missed by many too focused on what the talent can do for the team (that’s not directed at you, Nittpicker). Joe took the instituion’s (and his) obligation to the student athlete seriously and CJF seems to share that focus.

 

[bxle]

NCAA can take this to another level by introducing lesser penalties that don’t affect the outcome. Penalties can include charging a team with fumbles didn’t occur but now did. Interceptions, sacks that didn’t happened but now did.

 

[Obliviax]

I hate ND as much as the rest, but they have a fair argument here. How is punishment meted out by the NCAA in this case, but not at all in the UNC case. ND reported this as part of their "honor code," they bring up a fair argument in suggesting that this will just lead to the abolishment of honor codes at schools involving high profile athletes.

Well....when someone argues "NCAA" and "honor" in the same appeal, I have to wonder what they are smoking. What is it that would make anyone associate the two?

 

[BobPSU92]

And UNC skates.

Maybe if notre dame were better at basketball...

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[LurkerLazarus]

Did ND argue at any time that the NCAA had no jurisdiction in the Sandusky situation? Or did they side with Emmert?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[Obliviax]

 

[3rdandLong21]

Really funny

 

[Aardvark86]

Is it my imagination or does it seem like every action or inaction the NCAA takes is more inexplicable than the previous one?

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Is it my imagination or does it seem like every action or inaction the NCAA is more inexplicable than the previous one?

NCAA. No Clue About Anything

 

[AvgUser]

How is punishment meted out by the NCAA in this case, but not at all in the UNC case.

If I recall correctly, UNC allowed fraud for all students and did not just favor the athletes. That's why they skated without so much as a slap on the wrist.

 

[Beachwineguy]

Can’t wait to hear Golic Jr. bitch about having the wins taken away. Oh, wait, I don’t listen to ESPN radio.

 

[RGWhirly]

If I recall correctly, UNC allowed fraud for all students and did not just favor the athletes. That's why they skated without so much as a slap on the wrist.

Earlier they admitted to favoring athletes and then they changed their story later. Guess they got a better lawyer.

 

[ram2020]

If I recall correctly, UNC allowed fraud for all students and did not just favor the athletes. That's why they skated without so much as a slap on the wrist.

That is exactly right. With each and every ruling, the NCAA is simply providing instructions on how to cheat and shirk academic responsibility. In the UNC case, they agreed that rampant systemic academic fraud had taken place at the school for 20 years. They also acknowledged that athletes directly benefited from that. However, because there were non-athlete students in the class as well, they felt that was not their jurisdiction. In the ND case, Notre Dame admits to cheating for a few football players, suspends/expels them as part of their "Honor Code" and self reports to the NCAA. The NCAA ostensibly says fu*k you, we are taking away all your wins from that time period. SO here are the two points to take away if you are a school interested in keeping dumb athletes eligible:

1. Don't narc on yourself and don't have any integrity when it comes to academics, certainly don't adhere to an "Honor Code" related to academic cheating. IF perhaps you stumble on information this is taking place, don't tell the NCAA and turn a blind eye.

2. Set up "dummy" classes whereas Athletes can be guaranteed high grades regardless of their work product, effort, or attendance. Stick a couple dweebs from another major that don't play sports in the classes and you are untouchable by NCAA standards.

 

[Aardvark86]

That is exactly right. With each and every ruling, the NCAA is simply providing instructions on how to cheat and shirk academic responsibility. In the UNC case, they agreed that rampant systemic academic fraud had taken place at the school for 20 years. They also acknowledged that athletes directly benefited from that. However, because there were non-athlete students in the class as well, they felt that was not their jurisdiction. In the ND case, Notre Dame admits to cheating for a few football players, suspends/expels them as part of their "Honor Code" and self reports to the NCAA. The NCAA ostensibly says fu*k you, we are taking away all your wins from that time period. SO here are the two points to take away if you are a school interested in keeping dumb athletes eligible:

1. Don't narc on yourself and don't have any integrity when it comes to academics, certainly don't adhere to an "Honor Code" related to academic cheating. IF perhaps you stumble on information this is taking place, don't tell the NCAA and turn a blind eye.

2. Set up "dummy" classes whereas Athletes can be guaranteed high grades regardless of their work product, effort, or attendance. Stick a couple dweebs from another major that don't play sports in the classes and you are untouchable by NCAA standards.

Yeah, whatever one thinks of nd, They do academics the right way. Just bizarre doublespeak. I guess it’s just a sign the NCAA no longer sees them as a golden child.

 

[TheGLOV]

https://www.ndinsider.com/football/...cle_88e31422-b28a-11e7-a1a8-63391e5141e7.html

Notre Dame will be forced to erase 21 wins from the 2012 and 2013 seasons, most notably the undefeated 12-0 regular season in 2012. The reflected changes drop Notre Dame's all-time winning percentage from .729 to .727 and the all-time win total from 906 to 885.

The aforementioned .727 all-time winning percentage remains second nationally, behind only Michigan (.729). Notre Dame's national standing in total wins drops from second to sixth, behind Michigan (943), Texas (898), Ohio State (898), Nebraska (893) and Alabama (891).

As Mel Allen used to say, "How about that."

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!!

 

[TheGLOV]

NOT SO FAST!! Notre Dame has filed a 2nd appeal, it was already heard, and the sentence has been changed. Now they must give up those 21 wins, but only for Lent.

Oh my God!

That was your worse one yet fair.

You ARE slipping sir!

 

[lionville]

Yeah, whatever one thinks of nd, They do academics the right way. Just bizarre doublespeak. I guess it’s just a sign the NCAA no longer sees them as a golden child.

Oh please. ND is not different. And I know firsthand. The administration are some of the most morally bankrupt people on this planet and it starts with the president.

 

[fairgambit]

Oh my God!

That was your worse one yet fair.

You ARE slipping sir!

I'm getting old GLOV.

 

[tboyer]

Absolutely ludicrous the inconsistency between handling of ND and UNC. The NCAA should just vote itself out of business and let the conferences be responsible. Right now it's just an irrelevant extra layer.