NIL Question
- Thread starter ChillW
- Start date
75% of the comments by Goggles.
There’s not a ton of NIL $ in wrestling, but I’m sure we can hang with any other program as far as opportunities.
We have a roster loaded with underclassmen - that’s the simple (but boring) answer to slow recruiting this year.
There’s not a ton of NIL $ in wrestling, but I’m sure we can hang with any other program as far as opportunities.
We have a roster loaded with underclassmen - that’s the simple (but boring) answer to slow recruiting this year.
It’s important to understand that the vast majority of predications and “analysis” found here – whether it’s recruiting, NIL, or even future lineup/weight considerations – is somewhere between about 17 layers of inference and just complete BS.
1. Big market school versus small market school. The big market school may offer more endorsement opportunities, which is more $ for their athletes. Think LA Dodgers versus Pittsburgh Pirates markets.
2. One school may have a big pockets donor willing to shell out big NIL $s to give their school an advantage. If the other schools don't have donors willing to match it then more than likely they will lose recruits to big pockets donor's school. This is probably magnified for sports that don't offer big scholarship $.
$.02
NIL is a convenient excuse for fans who can't comprehend how Cael doesn't win the Recruiting National Title every year, and/or who suffer from Chicken Little Syndrome.
Back in the dark ages before NIL, Cael landed exactly one top-50 recruit in 2013, 2015, and 2019. He nailed those picks (Zain, Cenzo, Carter). And has done OK with team titles.
Let's apply the sniff test: PSU has the best coaches, the best facilities, the best partners, the best Olympic program, and (arguably) the best fan support. And the highest demand for camp counselors. And RBY showing how success leads to personal branding. And the greatest mass media exposure between BTN and ESPN NCAA tournament appearances. Despite all of that, NIL drives a kid elsewhere?
1. While true, Penn State is not losing any recruits to Campbell or Southern Illinois Edwardsville.
2. This is most likely opposite -- schools with big hitter donors cultivate those donors for school priorities over student priorities. For athletics, this means facilities and coaches' salaries. To the extent that schools work NIL deals, football will always be the schools' priority. Example: the BYU deal that paid tuition for every walk-on + advertising revenue to the scholarship players.
Also have to remember that schools have limited development staff, and set the priorities for staff members.
Good one. Yeah, I have yet to see real evidence of big NIL $$$ for wrestling. I doubt there are that many folks out there willing to point up big money on kids for this kind of sport.
There were rumors of one recent $80k/yr offer but that sounds just plain outrageous.
I suspect Suriano might command a nice little sum for 3 months of service, but in time one would think the big NIL dollars with stay with football for key 5 star recruits at a few big schools for only the most important positions.
My understanding is that Cael finds it frustrating that PSU has given very little guidance or framework for how all this can work and the wild west nature of it has become a distraction to training in his view. Mostly my opinion reading the tea leaves of things I've heard.
I don't believe schools/coaches/programs can in any way directly offer or guarantee athelets any NIL.
It does however, open the door for boosters or in most cases local business to reach out and reward student Athletes or recruits with contacts or compensation for their Name Image or Likeness. Likewise the wrestlers themselves can go out and seek said compensation. I assume this includes hiring an agent to go out and find deals for them.
The typical example is a local car dealer using some of the kids(s) in a commercial or a billboard, and then paying them or more likely setting them up in a free car lease as compensation.
Deals are supposed to be reviewed and approved by the respective school's compliance departments, but not by the NCAA as a whole. Here is where there is some additional opportunity for abuse or different interpretations of what is kosher or not from one school to another.
The most visible area I see for one school using this to dominate is Oregon as they have Phil Knight (Nike founder) who is extremely passionate and generous to the University and athletics. He has already given $500 million to the school, and his net worth is somewhere around $60 Billion.
To my knowledge nothing re: NIL has happened at Oregon yet, but in theory he could promise commercial deals to every 5 star football recruit he wants and deliver on the goods and very few of any other programs including Alabama could compete. We will have to see how it plays out. Rumor has it that the Alabama QB Bryce Young already has north of $1 Million in NIL.
So in football with 85 scholarships, getting a full ride becomes secondary, and schools with poor NIL connections will probably suffer.
There have definitely been schools that have been better than most at getting things going. UNC is one of them for instance. Currently, Penn State is behind the eight ball and it’s something that has been problematic for the football program as well.
Here is my semi educated explanation. I e. It will get you 90% of the way there.
I don't believe schools/coaches/programs can in any way directly offer or guarantee athelets any NIL.
It does however, open the door for boosters or in most cases local business to reach out and reward student Athletes or recruits with contacts or compensation for their Name Image or Likeness. Likewise the wrestlers themselves can go out and seek said compensation. I assume this includes hiring an agent to go out and find deals for them.
The typical example is a local car dealer using some of the kids(s) in a commercial or a billboard, and then paying them or more likely setting them up in a free car lease as compensation.
Deals are supposed to be reviewed and approved by the respective school's compliance departments, but not by the NCAA as a whole. Here is where there is some additional opportunity for abuse or different interpretations of what is kosher or not from one school to another.
The most visible area I see for one school using this to dominate is Oregon as they have Phil Knight (Nike founder) who is extremely passionate and generous to the University and athletics. He has already given $500 million to the school, and his net worth is somewhere around $60 Billion.
Nothing re: NIL has happened at Oregon yet that I am aware.
Depends on if I'm paying rent in Palo Alto or Port Matilda.
In sports other than football and men's basketball, the athletes that get the biggest NIL deals will almost always be the ones that have cultivated huge social media followings over the years. The recent HBO real sports had a segment on this. A pair of twins on Fresno State's women's basketball team estimate that they could get $500K in NIL deals. They have created their own brand on social media and have been working at it for years. Helps that they are good looking too.
What PSU needs to do is define what is acceptable and what is not acceptable for NIL and then get out of the way. The athletes who have worked on social media branding will do better than the athletes that do not.
What PSU needs to do is define what is acceptable and what is not acceptable for NIL and then get out of the way. The athletes who have worked on social media branding will do better than the athletes that do not.
NIL rules are currently subject to state laws in states that have enacted legislation with state NIL law status shown here:
https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-name-image-and-likeness-legislation-by-state/
Basics of PA law is explained here:
https://spry.so/nil-state-guide/pennsylvania-nil-law-for-ncaa/
https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-name-image-and-likeness-legislation-by-state/
Basics of PA law is explained here:
https://spry.so/nil-state-guide/pennsylvania-nil-law-for-ncaa/
Penn State admin stuck in the mud while everyone else (including PSU faculty and students) are innovating?
Knock me over with a feather.
Oh wow. Interesting stuff on willies show. One being PSU lost a couple recruits because they won’t discuss NIL with recruits.
Thanks. I started listening. I wonder why we haven't discussed it. Also, that seems like a bad reason to lose out on a recruit.
It sounds like some people were right with NIL deals being discussed during recruiting visits and recruiting offers. PSU and Iowa not discussing it, so that leads me to believe Tan Tom and some other lower tier schools are those discussing it. Just my assumption.
Agreed, I love when they get like this. They obviously know EVERYONE and their insights are better than anyone elses.
PSU is limited by the PA NIL law that says:
- Prohibition Regarding Institutions of Higher Education:An institution of higher education may not:
- Uphold a rule, requirement, standard or other limitation that prevents a college student athlete of the institution of higher education from earning compensation through the use of the college student athlete’s name, image or likeness rights.
- Arrange third-party compensation for a college student athlete relating to the use of the college student athlete’s name, image or likeness rights or use a similar type of arrangement as an inducement to recruit a prospective college student athlete.
I don't think they can tell a recruit Blase Alexander of R Gilligan may have a deal for you.
I mean, PSU athletes are clearly benefitting from NIL, so you have to wonder how smart these parents are if they get upset that it is not discussed during conversations about having their kid commit to PSU. If they want pay for play, which is what it seems like is happening according to Willie and Corby, then I doubt you're going to get Cael to commit to doing that.
Good for Cael (and Brands). Pay for play is clearly prohibited.
I wonder how many people on here just want us to go full Clemson??? I think this Wild West situation won’t last long if the stuff Willie and Corby is talking about continues.
Bingo. If Cael won't discuss it, how hard would it be for Junior to ask RBY or Nick Lee about their deals? Which tells me NIL is the parents' excuse, not their reason.
@smalls103 gave me the best idea on his show. Let's crowdfund a million dollars for Spencer to redshirt this year. I think we can do it.
All kidding aside, that's another angle Willie talked about. NIL is just getting started and offers from opposition to throw matches might not be as crazy of an idea as we think one day. Said if NIL was a thing in 2018, an Ohio State fan in theory could tell Bo he'll give him $500K in cash to throw the finals match against MyMar.
All kidding aside, that's another angle Willie talked about. NIL is just getting started and offers from opposition to throw matches might not be as crazy of an idea as we think one day. Said if NIL was a thing in 2018, an Ohio State fan in theory could tell Bo he'll give him $500K in cash to throw the finals match against MyMar.
How many cases of Metamucil would it take for Iowa to throw matches at nationals?
This cracked me up over on HR..
Grip220: "What is stopping me being a gajillionaire and a major fan of a certain schools athletic program, from contacting without said school knowing an athlete that is mega recruit or possible transfer and offering some really good NIL STUFF?"
poorwrestler: "The only thing stopping you is your own inability to become a gajillionaire"
Grip220: "What is stopping me being a gajillionaire and a major fan of a certain schools athletic program, from contacting without said school knowing an athlete that is mega recruit or possible transfer and offering some really good NIL STUFF?"
poorwrestler: "The only thing stopping you is your own inability to become a gajillionaire"
Grippy still hasn't learned to shoot himself in the foot BEFORE sticking his foot in his mouth.This cracked me up over on HR..
Grip220: "What is stopping me being a gajillionaire and a major fan of a certain schools athletic program, from contacting without said school knowing an athlete that is mega recruit or possible transfer and offering some really good NIL STUFF?"
poorwrestler: "The only thing stopping you is your own inability to become a gajillionaire"
I think as we move forward and PSU kids keep winning championships while Buckeyes get placement medals, and NIL money for PSU kids just kind of works it self out - recruits will find their way home.
I think if PSU lost recruits over NIL non-talk, they didn't want those recruits anyway. My guess is that Cael's position, based on previously known positions in re social media activity, is that if you're overly concerned with NIL deals as a recruit, your focus isn't where it should be and you are less likely to be successful. NIL opportunities will follow success on the mat, no matter where you are, but if NIL deals are the goal, you're doing it wrong. The recipe is success > then NIL deals. No success, no one's going to light up your phone.
PSU is uniquely positioned with respect to wrestlers earning NIL deals--they don't have to try and market you because they already do, by default. So if you're a recruit and didn't like Cael's answer about NIL deals, you're not especially bright because there's probably no better place for you to be, along with maybe Iowa. But even there, c'mon. Roman Bravo-Young probably would've gotten the same answer from Cael, and he's turned himself into one of the most recognizable wrestlers in D1 and has the NIL deals to show for it. (Granted, RBY also prioritizes well and appears to be an expert compartmentalizer of his wrestling and business lives, rare for any college athlete).
Now, other schools down the rankings might have to answer that question differently because they can't sell national championships as a realistic possibility. All the schools appear to be increasingly aware that they need to pump out social media content with their wrestlers names on it and those graphics need to look good. That's not the same thing as NIL deals but it's in the same family and it's indicative of the awareness a school has toward promoting its athletes. But schools that essentially become deal agents for their athletes would be treading in dicey legal waters. The best a school can do, I think, is to inform as to the process/law, and not step on deals that could help their athletes.
PSU is uniquely positioned with respect to wrestlers earning NIL deals--they don't have to try and market you because they already do, by default. So if you're a recruit and didn't like Cael's answer about NIL deals, you're not especially bright because there's probably no better place for you to be, along with maybe Iowa. But even there, c'mon. Roman Bravo-Young probably would've gotten the same answer from Cael, and he's turned himself into one of the most recognizable wrestlers in D1 and has the NIL deals to show for it. (Granted, RBY also prioritizes well and appears to be an expert compartmentalizer of his wrestling and business lives, rare for any college athlete).
Now, other schools down the rankings might have to answer that question differently because they can't sell national championships as a realistic possibility. All the schools appear to be increasingly aware that they need to pump out social media content with their wrestlers names on it and those graphics need to look good. That's not the same thing as NIL deals but it's in the same family and it's indicative of the awareness a school has toward promoting its athletes. But schools that essentially become deal agents for their athletes would be treading in dicey legal waters. The best a school can do, I think, is to inform as to the process/law, and not step on deals that could help their athletes.
I think the counter to this is as the old NCAA commercial says, “99% (or whatever the number is) of college athletes go pro in something other than sports.”
In wrestling, there are what, like 4 guys that actually make a decent living from wrestling? Of course you could throw coaching in there and accolades matter for that so wrestling for PSU would definitely help in that regard.
Even with NIL, I guess we don’t know the details, but other than Gable, has ANYONE made significant cash? RBY may have made a little, but he worked hard at social media for that. I know Nick Lee was in a truck commercial...Do Brooks or Starocci (or Shane Griffith, Austin O’Connor or David Carr for that matter) have any deals? Unfortunately, at this point, it doesn’t seem like success on the NCAA mat necessarily leads to any notable NIL money. It seems likely that the best way to get NIL money through wrestling is to be promised something if you commit...assuming that’s even legal of course and I’m guessing it may not be at least in many states.
But overall, it can probably be argued that if a wrestler’s pre-college career has earned him a potential NIL offer or a scholarship at one school but not another, then for some that may have been their main goal all along.
The (first) word is Suriano has $150k on the table to wrestle one semester (ISU, maybe?). According to Willie and Corby, high school seniors have gotten similar offers (for 4 years). The money isn’t only from straight advertisers—boosters have different motivations.
That’s essentially for getting top recruits to commit, isn’t it? Have any current athletes gotten the same or similar? Would imagine David Carr may not be too happy if Suriano gets $150k and he doesn’t...
