Offensive Line Recruiting

[ryoder1]

What is the latest for the '25 class? We have two guys, both 3 stars. Owen Aliciene out of CT an 89 rated OT good size at 6'7" 275. And Michael Troutman out of NJ. 87 rated interior OL, 6'2" 270.

We need more than this, right? Who are the top guys we are targeting? Hopefully 4 star guys.

Edit: I see we seem to have a decent shot for Malachi Goodman out of Paramus NJ, a 94 rated composite IOL. 6'5" 315. Steep competition for him.

 

[lazydave841]

What is the latest for the '25 class? We have two guys, both 3 stars. Owen Aliciene out of CT an 89 rated OT good size at 6'7" 275. And Michael Troutman out of NJ. 87 rated interior OL, 6'2" 270.

We need more than this, right? Who are the top guys we are targeting? Hopefully 4 star guys.

Edit: I see we seem to have a decent shot for Malachi Goodman out of Paramus NJ, a 94 rated composite IOL. 6'5" 315. Steep competition for him.

Not necessarily. Wormley and Dawkins are the only guaranteed ones to leave (and with covid eligibility that may not be correct). I'm sure somebody portals out as well at some point between the winter and spring windows, but I think outside of Goodman we are more likely to bring in a portal OL than use it on a HS at this point.

 

[ryoder1]

Not necessarily. Wormley and Dawkins are the only guaranteed ones to leave (and with covid eligibility that may not be correct). I'm sure somebody portals out as well at some point between the winter and spring windows, but I think outside of Goodman we are more likely to bring in a portal OL than use it on a HS at this point.

Yeah it seems we are done with HS recruits for '25 except Goodman. Haven't checked the depth chart for who we lose so to your point possibly no one.

We got the star OT for '26, Kevin Brown out of Harrisburg, Top 100 player, #2 in PA so maybe '26 will be loaded with O-Linemen. Always an option for a portal guy to fill in for '26.

 

[voltz99]

What is the latest for the '25 class? We have two guys, both 3 stars. Owen Aliciene out of CT an 89 rated OT good size at 6'7" 275. And Michael Troutman out of NJ. 87 rated interior OL, 6'2" 270.

We need more than this, right? Who are the top guys we are targeting? Hopefully 4 star guys.

Edit: I see we seem to have a decent shot for Malachi Goodman out of Paramus NJ, a 94 rated composite IOL. 6'5" 315. Steep competition for him.

We do have more. Brady Ohara is 6'6 265. He is going to be an OT. Aliciene will be a 4 *

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

If Aliciene played his high school football in another state he would already be a four-star.

 

[m.knox]

What is the latest for the '25 class? We have two guys, both 3 stars. Owen Aliciene out of CT an 89 rated OT good size at 6'7" 275. And Michael Troutman out of NJ. 87 rated interior OL, 6'2" 270.

We need more than this, right? Who are the top guys we are targeting? Hopefully 4 star guys.

Edit: I see we seem to have a decent shot for Malachi Goodman out of Paramus NJ, a 94 rated composite IOL. 6'5" 315. Steep competition for him.

That's funny. I was going to post the same. Look at the scholarship roster, and you can see some concerning things. For example, we have 15 scholarship for 5 OL position. 3 deep. That's good right?

For DE, we have 9 scholarships for 2 positions. 4.5 deep. DT? 11 scholarships for 2 positions. 5.5 deep.

I think most can agree defense is not holding PSU back.

For giggles, I did go look at OSU. They don't have a lot of OL recruits at the moment, but they are very highly rated.

If PSU is going to take the next step, I'm thinking OL recruiting needs to improve.

 

[ryoder1]

That's funny. I was going to post the same. Look at the scholarship roster, and you can see some concerning things. For example, we have 15 scholarship for 5 OL position. 3 deep. That's good right?

For DE, we have 9 scholarships for 2 positions. 4.5 deep. DT? 11 scholarships for 2 positions. 5.5 deep.

I think most can agree defense is not holding PSU back.

For giggles, I did go look at OSU. They don't have a lot of OL recruits at the moment, but they are very highly rated.

If PSU is going to take the next step, I'm thinking OL recruiting needs to improve.

Lazy Dave pointed out we don't lose many next year so that may be why we have not recruited many for '25. It does seem very light to only have two O-linemen recruited. The OT, Brown, from Harrisburg for '26 is like 15th nationally overall so that is a huge pickup for us.

 

[m.knox]

Lazy Dave pointed out we don't lose many next year so that may be why we have not recruited many for '25. It does seem very light to only have two O-linemen recruited. The OT, Brown, from Harrisburg for '26 is like 15th nationally overall so that is a huge pickup for us.

That's true. PSU loses 3. We have 9 redshirt or true freshman of the 15. Young group. Would love to have 5 quality guys in this class if it could happen. Not sure how this will all wash out as we have 15 seniors graduating (12 of which are done). 2025 class is already at 23 heads.

 

[GregInPitt]

That's funny. I was going to post the same. Look at the scholarship roster, and you can see some concerning things. For example, we have 15 scholarship for 5 OL position. 3 deep. That's good right?

For DE, we have 9 scholarships for 2 positions. 4.5 deep. DT? 11 scholarships for 2 positions. 5.5 deep.

I think most can agree defense is not holding PSU back.

For giggles, I did go look at OSU. They don't have a lot of OL recruits at the moment, but they are very highly rated.

If PSU is going to take the next step, I'm thinking OL recruiting needs to improve.

When a defense rotates 4-6 DE's in a game to keep them fresh and uphold the pass rush throughout a game, and the team does not want to rely on true freshmen, it's only natural that teams carry over a 4 deep at DE. The same goes for DT where some young players take even longer to develop the strength and size to succeed on the field.

Oline on the other hand, requires most players to go through a longer development process, but many teams do not rotate OL players in an out of games. So realistically a team only needs 8 oline players to get through a game and 3 of those may not even play.

So 8 ready for the 5 OL spots. Not even a full 2 deep. And 10 need to be ready to rotate for the 4 DL spots. A 2.5 deep for both DL positions. So I'm not on board with your implications on the number of scholarships used at each of these 3 positions. And it seems that Franklin is not on board with it either. If Franklin wanted to use 20 scholarships on the OL on an ongoing basis he would, based on the 85 scholarship limit teams have been under for many years. But he can't because the 85 limit is not a full 22 position plus specialists 4 deep. And when a team has to rationally go for a 4+ deep at QB, RB and the positions that require extensive in game substitutions, plus use a few scholarships on kickers and maybe a long snapper, it leads to having 14-17 scholarship onlinemen on an 85 scholarship roster.

When the new 105 scholarship rule takes effect teams will then likely up their OL scholarship player numbers....

 

[Ward Hog]

Good thing is that even with our "poor" oline recruiting, we consistently put guys in the league.

 

[m.knox]

And it seems that Franklin is not on board with it either. If Franklin wanted to use 20 scholarships on the OL on an ongoing basis he would, based on the 85 scholarship limit teams have been under for many years.

I appreciate your comments. Just keep in mind that Franklin has not been able to break through the likes of OSU and UM after 11 years; so I would hold what he is or isn't on board with, with a bit of skepticism.

I did frame the conversation with getting to the next level.

 

[voltz99]

I appreciate your comments. Just keep in mind that Franklin has not been able to break through the likes of OSU and UM after 11 years; so I would hold what he is or isn't on board with, with a bit of skepticism.

I did frame the conversation with getting to the next level.

How many coaches in the entire league have met your goals and would you be on board with?

 

[m.knox]

How many coaches in the entire league have met your goals and would you be on board with?

It's a general observation. That said, here a couple competitors scholarship rosters.

Ohio State Football Scholarship Grid

A look at how the scholarships are divided up on Ohio State's roster, broken up by class and position.

www.elevenwarriors.com

Michigan Wolverines Football Scholarship Chart | MGoFish

Michigan Wolverines football scholarship chart

mgofish.com

Tracking Alabama Football's scholarship situation heading into 2024 season

Breaking down the Alabama football team’s scholarship situation heading into the 2024 college football season!

rolltidewire.usatoday.com

Georgia football scholarship breakdown for 2024

Signing day has come and gone. There have been additions and departures via the transfer portal. The deadline to declare for the NFL Draft has come. Here is how the 2024 roster looks for the Dawgs in terms of athletes on scholarship.

247sports.com

 

[lazydave841]

It's a general observation. That said, here a couple competitors scholarship rosters.

Ohio State Football Scholarship Grid

A look at how the scholarships are divided up on Ohio State's roster, broken up by class and position.

www.elevenwarriors.com

Michigan Wolverines Football Scholarship Chart | MGoFish

Michigan Wolverines football scholarship chart

mgofish.com

Tracking Alabama Football's scholarship situation heading into 2024 season

Breaking down the Alabama football team’s scholarship situation heading into the 2024 college football season!

rolltidewire.usatoday.com

Georgia football scholarship breakdown for 2024

Signing day has come and gone. There have been additions and departures via the transfer portal. The deadline to declare for the NFL Draft has come. Here is how the 2024 roster looks for the Dawgs in terms of athletes on scholarship.

247sports.com

Glad you posted these. Good to see. Michigan carrying 90 currently seems to inflate their #s a touch.

UGA at 18 is more than us, but we are ahead of Bama and OSU. Bama crazy thin at CB, OSU at RB stood out.

 

[voltz99]

It's a general observation. That said, here a couple competitors scholarship rosters.

Ohio State Football Scholarship Grid

A look at how the scholarships are divided up on Ohio State's roster, broken up by class and position.

www.elevenwarriors.com

Michigan Wolverines Football Scholarship Chart | MGoFish

Michigan Wolverines football scholarship chart

mgofish.com

Tracking Alabama Football's scholarship situation heading into 2024 season

Breaking down the Alabama football team’s scholarship situation heading into the 2024 college football season!

rolltidewire.usatoday.com

Georgia football scholarship breakdown for 2024

Signing day has come and gone. There have been additions and departures via the transfer portal. The deadline to declare for the NFL Draft has come. Here is how the 2024 roster looks for the Dawgs in terms of athletes on scholarship.

247sports.com

You did not answer the question. Which coaches are you on board with? Are you on board with bama who has less ol or OSU who has one more? We might have the same as OSU if tangwell was not hurt.

How many more ol should psu recruit and which position group do you want psu to recruit less?

 

[GregInPitt]

You did not answer the question. Which coaches are you on board with? Are you on board with bama who has less ol or OSU who has one more? We might have the same as OSU if tangwell was not hurt.

How many more ol should psu recruit and which position group do you want psu to recruit less?

Yes, that's part of the responsibility of the coaches that get paid millions of dollars to win football games.

I thought explaining the amount of players at each position needed to get through a season in general terms would suffice as the answer/explanation. But obviously the other variables that determine how many scholarship olinemen are on a team's roster at any given time include the fact that every coach has their own ideas on how exactly he wants to divide up the 85 scholarships between positions. Also sometimes teams don't get the number of players at a specific position that they may have had as a goal in recruiting classes due to missing on their targets and having the opportunity to get a better player at another position that will help the team win, in the coaches evaluation and opinion.

It seems that getting upset or assigning blame to a coach because he has a couple more or less players at a specific position on his roster is a waste of time. Franklin seems to have done a very good job of managing his roster in the current transfer portal environment where teams don't know who is staying and who might decide to leave. JMO

 

[m.knox]

You did not answer the question. Which coaches are you on board with? Are you on board with bama who has less ol or OSU who has one more? We might have the same as OSU if tangwell was not hurt.

How many more ol should psu recruit and which position group do you want psu to recruit less?

I cited some numbers above. Does PSU really need to be 5.5 players deep at DT? No. They can be 4 deep and add three to OL; Of course, that is provided there are 3 additional very good OL that want to play for PSU. That is an additional variable in and of itself. Greg noted it above.

Injuries happen. That only strengthens the case for getting more talent.

 

[voltz99]

I cited some numbers above. Does PSU really need to be 5.5 players deep at DT? No. They can be 4 deep and add three to OL; Of course, that is provided there are 3 additional very good OL that want to play for PSU. That is an additional variable in and of itself. Greg noted it above.

Injuries happen. That only strengthens the case for getting more talent.

You listed four teams and their numbers are all different. Some are right in line with psu. Probably all four are in line with psu on several positions.

Are you one of those guys whose only plan is to copy someone else? That plan usually fails. Teams can't even replicate their own success from year to year. Which one team should psu copy?


Which of the 5.5 should be cut? You tell us.

Do you want to wait til a senior graduates before you bring in his replacement and then go with 260lb true freshman DTs the next year? Is that your plan?

Any team could be at 5.5 one year and 4.5 the next. That is kind of how it works. Teams don't have the exact same number of players at every position who want to commit each year. The players who do want to commit don't have the same talent each year.

Ps. If psu pencils a redshirt dt in at ol will that make you happy? The staff could probably just list Liam Andrews at ol for a year. You would not know the difference. Will you just complain about something else?

 

[m.knox]

Which of ye 5.5 should be cut? You tell us.

Do you want to wait til a senior graduates before you bring in his replacement and then go with 260lb true freshman DTs the next year? Is that your plan?

Any team could be at 5.5 one year and 4.5 the next. That is kind of how it works. Teams don't have the exact same number of players at every position who want to commit each year. The players who do want to commit don't have the same talent each year.

Ps. If psu pencils a redshirt dt in at ol will that make you happy? The staff could probably just list Liam Andrews at ol for a year. You would not know the difference. Will you just complain about something else?

3 deep on OL. 5.5 deep at DT. DT is 83% more deep than OL. 83%. That's a lot. No? I mean, would you like an 83% increase in your wage?

No one is complaining. Just making an observation on the subject of OL recruiting which is what this thread is about.

 

[lazydave841]

3 deep on OL. 5.5 deep at DT. DT is 83% more deep than OL. 83%. That's a lot.

No one is complaining. Just making an observation on the subject of OL recruiting which is what this thread is about.

I'm not sure how other teams are doing it, but our depth chart isn't precisely 3 deep at every spot based on the 15 players currently on scholarships.

For example, at guard. Sal is the RG. Either Nelson or Vega is the LG. If Sal gets hurt, Vega likely goes to RG. So in theory, it hypothetically looks like:

Starter - sub
LT Shelton - Nelson
LG Nelson - Vega
C Dawkins - Cousins
RG Sal - Vega
RT Donkoh - Rucci

That's 8 players manning the 2 deep with 7 behind them. And that's assuming Cousins is the backup C presently when it might be one of the others they have been cross training.

Interesting stuff to say the least and that doesn't include 2 of our players who had Scholarships at other schools who are walk on here (for now).

 

[m.knox]

You listed four teams and their numbers are all different. Some are right in line with psu. Probably all four are in line with psu on several positions.

Are you one of those guys whose only plan is to copy someone else? That plan usually fails. Teams can't even replicate their own success from year to year. Which one team should psu copy?


Which of the 5.5 should be cut? You tell us.

Do you want to wait til a senior graduates before you bring in his replacement and then go with 260lb true freshman DTs the next year? Is that your plan?

Any team could be at 5.5 one year and 4.5 the next. That is kind of how it works. Teams don't have the exact same number of players at every position who want to commit each year. The players who do want to commit don't have the same talent each year.

Ps. If psu pencils a redshirt dt in at ol will that make you happy? The staff could probably just list Liam Andrews at ol for a year. You would not know the difference. Will you just complain about something else?

It's called research. Checking to see what others are doing. Maybe you should try it yourself. If we could copy the results of those teams, yeah, I'd copy them. I believe two of those teams played made the 4 team playoffs.... Take that in a heartbeat.

I know it varies. Everyone does. Right now those are the numbers. In fact, with the incoming DE recruits, that position group will grow 1. DT will go down 2. OL will stay the same.

It's not about "cutting"; no one said anything about that. You're being ridiculous.

Franklin said it himself on several occasions. "The plays work better with better players." Improved OL recruiting will make the plays work better. Take it up with Franklin....... lol..

 

[m.knox]

I'm not sure how other teams are doing it, but our depth chart isn't precisely 3 deep at every spot based on the 15 players currently on scholarships.

For example, at guard. Sal is the RG. Either Nelson or Vega is the LG. If Sal gets hurt, Vega likely goes to RG. So in theory, it hypothetically looks like:

Starter - sub
LT Shelton - Nelson
LG Nelson - Vega
C Dawkins - Cousins
RG Sal - Vega
RT Donkoh - Rucci

That's 8 players manning the 2 deep with 7 behind them. And that's assuming Cousins is the backup C presently when it might be one of the others they have been cross training.

Interesting stuff to say the least and that doesn't include 2 of our players who had Scholarships at other schools who are walk on here (for now).

I get it. In fact, a while back there was an article written claiming that was part of the problem with the offense. Moving a right guard to left tackle... so on and so forth. The author clearly believed that it was far more difficult to play multiple OL positions at a high level than it looks.

 

[lazydave841]

I get it. In fact, a while back there was an article written claiming that was part of the problem with the offense. Moving a right guard to left tackle... so on and so forth. The author clearly believed that it was far more difficult to play multiple OL positions at a high level than it looks.

It may be true that it is, but it seems to be the in thing to do now, even at the NFL level. Olu recently just got moved to RT but this is the Jets.

 

[m.knox]

It may be true that it is, but it seems to be the in thing to do now, even at the NFL level. Olu recently just got moved to RT but this is the Jets.

Check this out.... LOL..

James Franklin built the deepest offensive line in the country at Penn State​

https://victorybellrings.com/posts/...ine-in-the-country-at-penn-state-01j5tjts83mh

There are plenty of flaws in Penn State’s offense, last season, the lack of playmakers was one of the primary differentiators between the Nittany Lions and the other top teams in the Big Ten during the James Franklin era. Yet, against Ohio State in 2023, the struggles of Penn State’s offensive line were a huge reason Drew Allar and those playmakers put up just 12 points in an eight-point loss.

That unit, which got manhandled in Columbus allowing 23 pressures on Allar and only managing 49 total rushing yards, had a lot of offseason turnover with Olu Fashanu, Caedan Wallace, and Hunter Nourzad all leaving for the NFL. This season, while the top-self NFL talent may not be there for the Nittany Lions up front, there may not be a team in the country with as much offensive line depth as Franklin’s.

The O-line has long been a priority for Penn State, but recruiting ramped up in 2022 when Franklin and offensive line coach Phil Trautwein landed commitments from Drew Shelton, now his starting left tackle, Vega Ioane, his starting left guard, and JB Nelson, who spent the offseason battling for starting reps at left guard with Ioane. Then in 2023, Franklin added five-star tackle J’ven Williams, who will serve as a depth piece this season. That year, he also brought in four-star Anthony Donkoh, who has spent the summer locked in a fierce battle with 2024 Wisconsin transfer Nolan Rucci at the right tackle spot.

 

[Lion_Backer]

It may be true that it is, but it seems to be the in thing to do now, even at the NFL level. Olu recently just got moved to RT but this is the Jets.

While I can understand why a coach would covet an OL who can play multiple positions, I would think that the most important thing would be for an OL to play their primary position at the highest possible level.

And when you factor in that the OL needs to work in full synchronization to be most effective. One guy missing their assignment can lead to the whole play collapsing.

And wrt the NFL, those players have much more practice time to focus on cross training linemen vs college which only allows 20 hrs./wk iirc??

 

[m.knox]

While I can understand why a coach would covet an OL who can play multiple positions, I would think that the most important thing would be for an OL to play their primary position at the highest possible level.

And when you factor in that the OL needs to work in full synchronization to be most effective. One guy missing their assignment can lead to the whole play collapsing.

And wrt the NFL, those players have much more practice time to focus on cross training linemen vs college which only allows 20 hrs./wk iirc??

Check this out............

 

[voltz99]

It's called research. Checking to see what others are doing. Maybe you should try it yourself. If we could copy the results of those teams, yeah, I'd copy them. I believe two of those teams played made the 4 team playoffs.... Take that in a heartbeat.

I know it varies. Everyone does. Right now those are the numbers. In fact, with the incoming DE recruits, that position group will grow 1. DT will go down 2. OL will stay the same.

It's not about "cutting"; no one said anything about that. You're being ridiculous.

Franklin said it himself on several occasions. "The plays work better with better players." Improved OL recruiting will make the plays work better. Take it up with Franklin....... lol..

Two of those teams MISSED the playoffs. Who do you want to copy for THIS year and going forward based on your research?

 

[m.knox]

Two of those teams MISSED the playoffs. Who do you want to copy for THIS year and going forward based on your research?

Good reason to not copy those two.

 

[voltz99]

It's called research. Checking to see what others are doing. Maybe you should try it yourself. If we could copy the results of those teams, yeah, I'd copy them. I believe two of those teams played made the 4 team playoffs.... Take that in a heartbeat.

I know it varies. Everyone does. Right now those are the numbers. In fact, with the incoming DE recruits, that position group will grow 1. DT will go down 2. OL will stay the same.

It's not about "cutting"; no one said anything about that. You're being ridiculous.

Franklin said it himself on several occasions. "The plays work better with better players." Improved OL recruiting will make the plays work better. Take it up with Franklin....... lol..

It was about cutting when there was a limit of 85. If you want more players at one position then that means less at another position. You dont get to pick your four favorite teams and them max out at all the position groups from the teams you listed. Alabama has 5 corners on scholarship based on YOUR source.

 

[m.knox]

It was about cutting when there was a limit of 85. If you want more players at one position then that means less at another position. You dont get to pick your four favorite teams and them max out at all the position groups from the teams you listed. Alabama has 5 corners on scholarship based on YOUR source.

The only person suggesting that is you.

 

[voltz99]

Good reason to not copy those two.

Then why did you list them? Tell us the model we should use going forward. Anyone can make a pick after the fact.

 

[m.knox]

Then why did you list them? Tell us the model we should use going forward. Anyone can make a pick after the fact.

LOL.. Just random thoughts of really good football programs. No sinister motives. Are you going to argue now that the picks are not really good football programs? As in, the ones we want to beat?

 

[lazydave841]

Check this out.... LOL..

James Franklin built the deepest offensive line in the country at Penn State​

https://victorybellrings.com/posts/...ine-in-the-country-at-penn-state-01j5tjts83mh

There are plenty of flaws in Penn State’s offense, last season, the lack of playmakers was one of the primary differentiators between the Nittany Lions and the other top teams in the Big Ten during the James Franklin era. Yet, against Ohio State in 2023, the struggles of Penn State’s offensive line were a huge reason Drew Allar and those playmakers put up just 12 points in an eight-point loss.

That unit, which got manhandled in Columbus allowing 23 pressures on Allar and only managing 49 total rushing yards, had a lot of offseason turnover with Olu Fashanu, Caedan Wallace, and Hunter Nourzad all leaving for the NFL. This season, while the top-self NFL talent may not be there for the Nittany Lions up front, there may not be a team in the country with as much offensive line depth as Franklin’s.

The O-line has long been a priority for Penn State, but recruiting ramped up in 2022 when Franklin and offensive line coach Phil Trautwein landed commitments from Drew Shelton, now his starting left tackle, Vega Ioane, his starting left guard, and JB Nelson, who spent the offseason battling for starting reps at left guard with Ioane. Then in 2023, Franklin added five-star tackle J’ven Williams, who will serve as a depth piece this season. That year, he also brought in four-star Anthony Donkoh, who has spent the summer locked in a fierce battle with 2024 Wisconsin transfer Nolan Rucci at the right tackle spot.

It's nice to see the old guard who always came across as bitter and jaded depart journalism and replaced by some optimistic writers.

Deeper than we have had? Sure. Deepest in the country? Talk to me after the OSU game.

While I can understand why a coach would covet an OL who can play multiple positions, I would think that the most important thing would be for an OL to play their primary position at the highest possible level.

And when you factor in that the OL needs to work in full synchronization to be most effective. One guy missing their assignment can lead to the whole play collapsing.

And wrt the NFL, those players have much more practice time to focus on cross training linemen vs college which only allows 20 hrs./wk iirc??

I think it's all about finding the best 5, and the best combination. Why play your 10th best OL at, let's say, RG, when you can insert your 6th best somewhere and shuffle someone else into the gap?

 

[m.knox]

It's nice to see the old guard who always came across as bitter and jaded depart journalism and replaced by some optimistic writers.

Deeper than we have had? Sure. Deepest in the country? Talk to me after the OSU game.

As always, first things first, but yeah........... No doubt.

 

[Lion_Backer]

I think it's all about finding the best 5, and the best combination. Why play your 10th best OL at, let's say, RG, when you can insert your 6th best somewhere and shuffle someone else into the gap?

It's nice to see the old guard who always came across as bitter and jaded depart journalism and replaced by some optimistic writers.

Deeper than we have had? Sure. Deepest in the country? Talk to me after the OSU game.



I think it's all about finding the best 5, and the best combination. Why play your 10th best OL at, let's say, RG, when you can insert your 6th best somewhere and shuffle someone else into the gap?

In theory, I agree with you 100%.

I'm just struggling to understand how our team having very good and even some elite OL talent has produced relatively pedestrian results when evaluating them as a unit.

The question is essentially do you sub in 1 better player that results in 2 OL playing new positions vs allowing the original 4 OL to stay put and put a less talented/experienced backup into the vacant position.
.

 

[lazydave841]

In theory, I agree with you 100%.

I'm just struggling to understand how our team having very good and even some elite OL talent has produced relatively pedestrian results when evaluating them as a unit.

The question is essentially do you sub in 1 better player that results in 2 OL playing new positions vs allowing the original 4 OL to stay put and put a less talented/experienced backup into the vacant position.
.

I think losing to Michigan and OSU the last 2 years specifically hurts the overall evaluation. It's essentially like being any team in the SEC who has been chasing Bama and UGA. No matter how good you have been, they were just a step ahead.

 

[voltz99]

I think it's all about finding the best 5, and the best combination. Why play your 10th best OL at, let's say, RG, when you can insert your 6th best somewhere and shuffle someone else into the gap?

The problem with that plan is sometimes the OL will take a step back at two positions vs one. Example: A team's LT goes down. That team then moves the RT to LT and brings in the backup RT.

 

[lazydave841]

The problem with that plan is sometimes the OL will take a step back at two positions vs one. Example: A teams LT goes down. That team then moves the RT to LT and brings in the backup RT.

I don't remember the year for sure ('21 or '22), but I think Michigan lost a RT starter either during a game with us or the week before they played us. They then moved the RG out to RT and brought the replacement RG off the bench (who had starting experience, just wasn't the current starter).

I think losing ANY starter means, generally, the OL will take a step back UNTIL they go out and don't. Mitigating the risk of having as few weak links as possible is the goal. That's why, I think, teams are now determining who their #6 OL is and adjust the lineup according to that.

 

[voltz99]

I don't remember the year for sure ('21 or '22), but I think Michigan lost a RT starter either during a game with us or the week before they played us. They then moved the RG out to RT and brought the replacement RG off the bench (who had starting experience, just wasn't the current starter).

I think losing ANY starter means, generally, the OL will take a step back UNTIL they go out and don't. Mitigating the risk of having as few weak links as possible is the goal. That's why, I think, teams are now determining who their #6 OL is and adjust the lineup according to that.

That is one example. Michigan might have had 6 NFL ol on that team. Around 2014 psu had no backup tackles or very few. Donovan smith got hurt, nelson moves from rt to lt and mangiro went from center to tackle. One injury and three positions changed. Too many moving parts.

I really don't care if we have 16 or 18 ol on scholarship. 11-16+ are not playing most years. My priority is the OL being great 1-5, good 6-10. Knox is crying about #16+

 

[m.knox]

Knox is crying about #16+

LOL.... So much drama from an observable fact....