OK fellow Bucco fans....riddle me this:

[bjf1984]

Option 1:

Keep pitcher "A"

Numbers last two years:
180 IP 3.20 ERA
187 Hits, 126K, 41BB 1.27WHIP

Also maintain another year of control

______________________________

Option 2:

Trade for Pitcher "B"

Numbers last two years:
267 IP 4.38 ERA
281 Hits, 215K, 93BB 1.40 WHIP

AND.....he is a pure rental for 2 months, no control
AND....you pick up another $3 Million of salary
AND....you lose a decent AAA SP prospect (Sampson)

FWIW, some more detail on the guy they traded for Happ:
This is another sites write-up, but I think it is pretty realistic:

"The 23-year-old Sampson ranked as the Pirates’ No. 28 prospect on MLB.com’s midseason update, where Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo praise the righty’s sinking fastball and ability to get grounders. The MLB.com duo notes that Sampson has strong command and average stuff across the board, giving him a low ceiling but also placing him close to big league ready. Sampson has started 21 games at Triple-A Indianapolis this season and has a 3.98 ERA with 6.9 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9 in 124 1/3 innings in that time.".....FWIW, last year in AA Altoona he was outstanding (2.50 ERA, 1.00 WHIP).....so its not like they got Happ for free.


Holy moly......someone pissed the bed on this one. Me thinks that at some point in the last 24 hours, someone realized they schitt the bed by letting Worley go.....panicked.....and made a move just to make a move......and ended up doubling down on a mistake.

Bad week for the Bucco front office (though I do like the Ramirez pickup, and getting a bag of balls for Tabata doesn't hurt either)

 

[SteveMasters]

Option 1:

Keep pitcher "A"

Numbers last two years:
180 IP 3.20 ERA
187 Hits, 126K, 41BB 1.27WHIP

Also maintain another year of control

______________________________

Option 2:

Trade for Pitcher "B"

Numbers last two years:
267 IP 4.38 ERA
281 Hits, 215K, 93BB 1.40 WHIP

AND.....he is a pure rental for 2 months, no control
AND....you pick up another $3 Million of salary
AND....you lose a decent AAA SP prospect (Sampson)


Holy moly......someone pissed the bed on this one.

Bad week for the Bucco front office (though I do like the Ramirez pickup, and getting a bag of balls for Tabata doesn't hurt either)

I don't like it either. I liked having Worley as insurance for starting pitching woes. AJ hasn't been doing very well lately and I am not that overly confident with either Locke or Morton. I hope the Bucs can acquire a serviceable starting pitcher before the deadline; unfortunately, I don't think it will happen.

 

[bjf1984]

I don't like it either. I liked having Worley as insurance for starting pitching woes. AJ hasn't been doing very well lately and I am not that overly confident with either Locke or Morton. I hope the Bucs can acquire a serviceable starting pitcher before the deadline; unfortunately, I don't think it will happen.

Yeah.....especially after seeing what Leake went for........Sampson and Jacoby Jones would have probably been enough to get Leake (maybe offer Keller instead of Sampson if they wanted a higher-upside younger arm)
Instead we lose those guys to get Soria and Happ??? That's a big whifffffff

Leake could have made a real difference for this team down the stretch - even if we don't see AJ/Morton/and or Locke go in the tank.....and if one or more of them DOES go in the tank, they are REALLY gonna' regret not getting Leake.

 

[TheGLOV]

Option 1:

Keep pitcher "A"

Numbers last two years:
180 IP 3.20 ERA
187 Hits, 126K, 41BB 1.27WHIP

Also maintain another year of control

______________________________

Option 2:

Trade for Pitcher "B"

Numbers last two years:
267 IP 4.38 ERA
281 Hits, 215K, 93BB 1.40 WHIP

AND.....he is a pure rental for 2 months, no control
AND....you pick up another $3 Million of salary
AND....you lose a decent AAA SP prospect (Sampson)

FWIW, some more detail on the guy they traded for Happ:
This is another sites write-up, but I think it is pretty realistic:

"The 23-year-old Sampson ranked as the Pirates’ No. 28 prospect on MLB.com’s midseason update, where Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo praise the righty’s sinking fastball and ability to get grounders. The MLB.com duo notes that Sampson has strong command and average stuff across the board, giving him a low ceiling but also placing him close to big league ready. Sampson has started 21 games at Triple-A Indianapolis this season and has a 3.98 ERA with 6.9 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9 in 124 1/3 innings in that time.".....FWIW, last year in AA Altoona he was outstanding (2.50 ERA, 1.00 WHIP).....so its not like they got Happ for free.


Holy moly......someone pissed the bed on this one. Me thinks that at some point in the last 24 hours, someone realized they schitt the bed by letting Worley go.....panicked.....and made a move just to make a move......and ended up doubling down on a mistake.

Bad week for the Bucco front office (though I do like the Ramirez pickup, and getting a bag of balls for Tabata doesn't hurt either)

Clint Hurdle STILL didn't call you?

Double-shocked!!

 

[bjf1984]

Clint Hurdle STILL didn't call you?

Double-shocked!!

WTF??

Have you ever voted in an election? Ever vote in one where each candidate didn't have you over for supper to discuss things?

WTF....you're getting like some turd that won't flush.

 

[TheGLOV]

WTF??

Have you ever voted in an election? Ever vote in one where each candidate didn't have you over for supper to discuss things?

WTF....you're getting like some turd that won't flush.

The Pirates discussion on this board was fine UNTIL you and your anxiety attack showed up.

Now back to waiting by the phone for Clint to call lil fella!



Relax! You make a good point BUT sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. So much goes on behind the clubhouse, etc.

Stay the course and cheer on the Pirates!!

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Amazing, you folks still don't think the brain trust of the Pirates don't know what they are doing. James Franklin is in serious trouble.

 

[TheGLOV]

Amazing, you folks still don't think the brain trust of the Pirates don't know what they are doing. James Franklin is in serious trouble.

They did make the playoffs WITHOUT some people's advice on this very board last year.

I guess they can't take rejection well Knocker!

bfj, makes valid points but in Clint I trust.

 

[bjf1984]

The Pirates discussion on this board was fine UNTIL you and your anxiety attack showed up.

Now back to waiting by the phone for Clint to call lil fella!



Relax! You make a good point BUT sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. So much goes on behind the clubhouse, etc.

Stay the course and cheer on the Pirates!!

WTF

 

[TheGLOV]

Wait Till Friday??

 

[fairgambit]

Wait Till Friday??

We Trust Franklin.

 

[TheGLOV]

We Trust Franklin.

Oh! Silly me!

 

[wbcincy]

Option 1:

Keep pitcher "A"

Numbers last two years:
180 IP 3.20 ERA
187 Hits, 126K, 41BB 1.27WHIP

Also maintain another year of control

______________________________

Option 2:

Trade for Pitcher "B"

Numbers last two years:
267 IP 4.38 ERA
281 Hits, 215K, 93BB 1.40 WHIP

AND.....he is a pure rental for 2 months, no control
AND....you pick up another $3 Million of salary
AND....you lose a decent AAA SP prospect (Sampson)

FWIW, some more detail on the guy they traded for Happ:
This is another sites write-up, but I think it is pretty realistic:

"The 23-year-old Sampson ranked as the Pirates’ No. 28 prospect on MLB.com’s midseason update, where Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo praise the righty’s sinking fastball and ability to get grounders. The MLB.com duo notes that Sampson has strong command and average stuff across the board, giving him a low ceiling but also placing him close to big league ready. Sampson has started 21 games at Triple-A Indianapolis this season and has a 3.98 ERA with 6.9 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9 in 124 1/3 innings in that time.".....FWIW, last year in AA Altoona he was outstanding (2.50 ERA, 1.00 WHIP).....so its not like they got Happ for free.


Holy moly......someone pissed the bed on this one. Me thinks that at some point in the last 24 hours, someone realized they schitt the bed by letting Worley go.....panicked.....and made a move just to make a move......and ended up doubling down on a mistake.

Bad week for the Bucco front office (though I do like the Ramirez pickup, and getting a bag of balls for Tabata doesn't hurt either)

Some misinformation here. They didn't let Worley go. He'll be in Indy and able to be called back up when they need him. I didn't care for them sending him down over some other guys, but you're really overreacting to a VERY minor move. It's not like Worley was, or was going to be, a vital part of this team. He can't or won't pitch short-innings. He's just mediocre. So replacing one mediocre pitching with another is hardly cause for saying management realized they pissed the bed. And they still have Worley available to them, so all they've done is add.

And no, they didn't get Happ for free, but Sampson's absolute top upside was as a back of the rotation guy...yay. The system is filled with 30 guys that fit that, so who cares they dealt 1 to help now.

 

[TheGLOV]

Some misinformation here. They didn't let Worley go. He'll be in Indy and able to be called back up when they need him. I didn't care for them sending him down over some other guys, but you're really overreacting to a VERY minor move. It's not like Worley was, or was going to be, a vital part of this team. He can't or won't pitch short-innings. He's just mediocre. So replacing one mediocre pitching with another is hardly cause for saying management realized they pissed the bed. And they still have Worley available to them, so all they've done is add.

And no, they didn't get Happ for free, but Sampson's absolute top upside was as a back of the rotation guy...yay. The system is filled with 30 guys that fit that, so who cares they dealt 1 to help now.

Excellent points wbcincy!

Me likey!!

Hope all is well buddy.

 

[wbcincy]

Excellent points wbcincy!

Me likey!!

Hope all is well buddy.

It is, same with you. And if you're feeling down, just remember, Hakuna Machado....

 

[Hartzie]

Some misinformation here. They didn't let Worley go. He'll be in Indy and able to be called back up when they need him. I didn't care for them sending him down over some other guys, but you're really overreacting to a VERY minor move. It's not like Worley was, or was going to be, a vital part of this team. He can't or won't pitch short-innings. He's just mediocre. So replacing one mediocre pitching with another is hardly cause for saying management realized they pissed the bed. And they still have Worley available to them, so all they've done is add.

And no, they didn't get Happ for free, but Sampson's absolute top upside was as a back of the rotation guy...yay. The system is filled with 30 guys that fit that, so who cares they dealt 1 to help now.

Unfortunately he has to pass waivers and even then he can refuse the assignment. If they had known about AJ's malady, they would not have DFA'ed Worley.

 

[Bessmoney]

Worley needs to pitch. 3 innings every 12-14 days does nothing to help his command. Let him go to Indy and stretch his arm out and hopefully find his command again. He was great last year because he could put the ball wherever he wanted. Hard to do that if he never pitches. Can always bring him back in September if AJ is done and Happ doesn't work out or Morton continues his reversion to the mean.

 

[bjf1984]

Some misinformation here. They didn't let Worley go. He'll be in Indy and able to be called back up when they need him. I didn't care for them sending him down over some other guys, but you're really overreacting to a VERY minor move. It's not like Worley was, or was going to be, a vital part of this team. He can't or won't pitch short-innings. He's just mediocre. So replacing one mediocre pitching with another is hardly cause for saying management realized they pissed the bed. And they still have Worley available to them, so all they've done is add.

And no, they didn't get Happ for free, but Sampson's absolute top upside was as a back of the rotation guy...yay. The system is filled with 30 guys that fit that, so who cares they dealt 1 to help now.

If 29 teams choose to not pick up Worley.....they can offer to send him to Indy - in which case he would likely (almost certainly, I would think) accept that assignment.
If 29 teams pass on Worley, the Pirates will have dodged a HUGE bullet. If any of those teams pick him up, the Pirates are SOL.
If Worley is "mediocre" (which may be a fair evaluation, IMHO) then the Pirates list of "better than mediocre" starters contains Cole, Liriano and NO ONE else.

Even if it works out that none of those teams pick up Worley, it means they got damn lucky - but it was still a stupid move......if you review the numbers above, and don't see that, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

As for the 30 guys on your list, the number who are ready, now, to at least fill in as AAAA level starters.....I'd like to see that list It probably - with all the AAA injuries - begins and ends with Liz, which isn't much of a list at all.

Anyway, it is what it is.

 

[wbcincy]

Argh...next Sunday's game against the Dodgers got moved to the 8 pm Sunday night game. Myself and 5 members of my extended family from PA, OH and VA had made plans to come up and stay in Pittsburgh Saturday night and go to the game Sunday afternoon. This new time won't work as I've got to be in court in Cincinnati at 10 am Monday...

I'm now going to have to sell 6 tix for Sunday and buy 6 tix for Saturday. Unfortunately both games are basically sold out and Saturday costs significantly more because of the OAR concert after. If anyone knows anyone that wants 6 tickets in Section 119, Row Y for Sunday at $70 each, let me know. Similarly if anyone knows anyone with 6 seats together in Sections 114-119 for Saturday that is looking to sell, let me know.

 

[fairgambit]

Argh...next Sunday's game against the Dodgers got moved to the 8 pm Sunday night game. Myself and 5 members of my extended family from PA, OH and VA had made plans to come up and stay in Pittsburgh Saturday night and go to the game Sunday afternoon. This new time won't work as I've got to be in court in Cincinnati at 10 am Monday...
I'm now going to have to sell 6 tix for Sunday and buy 6 tix for Saturday. Unfortunately both games are basically sold out and Saturday costs significantly more because of the OAR concert after. If anyone knows anyone that wants 6 tickets in Section 119, Row Y for Sunday at $70 each, let me know. Similarly if anyone knows anyone with 6 seats together in Sections 114-119 for Saturday that is looking to sell, let me know.

You don't really have to be in Court Monday. Just file one of those Curley/Schultz/Spanier motions and get the thing postponed for a few months.

 

[wbcincy]

You don't really have to be in Court Monday. Just file one of those Curley/Schultz/Spanier motions and get the thing postponed for a few months.

Or years... I was working on a death penalty case this week that involved a 2010 murder, 2011 conviction, direct appeal to the Ohio Supreme Court, Supreme Court decision affirming the judgment, petition for postconviction relief and appeal of the decision in that PCR petition. All of that has somehow happened before we can even get a trial in Curley/Schultz/Spanier.

 

[fairgambit]

Or years... I was working on a death penalty case this week that involved a 2010 murder, 2011 conviction, direct appeal to the Ohio Supreme Court, Supreme Court decision affirming the judgment, petition for postconviction relief and appeal of the decision in that PCR petition. All of that has somehow happened before we can even get a trial in Curley/Schultz/Spanier.

Whoa. That's some serious stuff. Still, Bucco baseball is a priority. Hope you can work it all out.

 

[CF LION]

Living in SE PA, I recall that Happ was a fan favorite here. He could be dominate at times and was always gritty. He was traded away in part of the deal that brought Oswalt to the Phillies, so no one really complained when he was dealt away. He was reportedly very unhappy about the trade and hasn't really been the same pitcher since. If he can feel good about his new team and his role, this trade could work out well for the Buccos.

 

[BBG65]

They DFA'd Worley before they knew AJ was going on the DL. If they'd have known he had a problem, it wouldn't have happened. Huntingdon said Burnett's issue prompted the Happ trade. I hope they are lucky enough to get Vance to Indy. By the way, Radhammes Liz is pitching well there in a starting role. There's not much else though.

 

[Mixolydian]

Argh...next Sunday's game against the Dodgers got moved to the 8 pm Sunday night game. Myself and 5 members of my extended family from PA, OH and VA had made plans to come up and stay in Pittsburgh Saturday night and go to the game Sunday afternoon. This new time won't work as I've got to be in court in Cincinnati at 10 am Monday...

I'm now going to have to sell 6 tix for Sunday and buy 6 tix for Saturday. Unfortunately both games are basically sold out and Saturday costs significantly more because of the OAR concert after. If anyone knows anyone that wants 6 tickets in Section 119, Row Y for Sunday at $70 each, let me know. Similarly if anyone knows anyone with 6 seats together in Sections 114-119 for Saturday that is looking to sell, let me know.

Cincy did you sell those tix yet?

 

[wbcincy]

Cincy did you sell those tix yet?

I have not.

 

[TheGLOV]

If 29 teams choose to not pick up Worley.....they can offer to send him to Indy - in which case he would likely (almost certainly, I would think) accept that assignment.
If 29 teams pass on Worley, the Pirates will have dodged a HUGE bullet. If any of those teams pick him up, the Pirates are SOL.
If Worley is "mediocre" (which may be a fair evaluation, IMHO) then the Pirates list of "better than mediocre" starters contains Cole, Liriano and NO ONE else.

Even if it works out that none of those teams pick up Worley, it means they got damn lucky - but it was still a stupid move......if you review the numbers above, and don't see that, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

As for the 30 guys on your list, the number who are ready, now, to at least fill in as AAAA level starters.....I'd like to see that list It probably - with all the AAA injuries - begins and ends with Liz, which isn't much of a list at all.

Anyway, it is what it is.

I think you better call Clint!

 

[jim cummings]

I think you better call Clint!

Blanton didn't look very good tonight (last night).

 

[TheGLOV]

Blanton didn't look very good tonight (last night).

Ok, Ok. I'll call him but I'm going to wait until the middle of the 7th inning of todays game.

LOL!!