I'm sure she'll get all the calls if she keeps screaming at the refs to "call a f---ing foul." They really appreciate it when players encourage them in that sort of way.
Open season on Caitlin Clark
- Thread starter Jerry
- Start date
That was more than a ‘hip check’.
She needs to hammer a couple while driving to the basket,
She is so so nice. Just like Larry Bird was nice. Because nice is what gets you to the hall of fame. NOT. She is NOT nice. She is incredibly competitive and will do anything to win. Including bumping other players, flopping, screaming at the refs to call fouls. It's part of her game. Her teammates are going to love her and opposing teams are going to hate her, just like they did Larry Bird. So what's wrong with that?
The notion that the WNBA has to "do something" to "protect" CC from other players being mean to her, fouling her, stealing the ball from her (she does lead the league in turnovers BTW) -- that is the LAST thing the WNBA should be doing. There are a lot of great players in the league and it would be absolutely toxic if there were a perception that the league was favoring Clark because she has so many social media followers and because she has a different, ah, hue from the average WNBA star.
I don't really get this. I was in Seattle when Sue Bird (another, ah, light-hued player) came into the league and I don't recall an outpouring of fans demanding that the league "protect" her from the physical pounding of pro basketball. There was just a lot of appreciation for Bird's game. To me that's a much better way for people to spend their time, appreciate what Clark can do and appreciate her growth as she steps up to a tougher level of competition and maybe -- probably -- to real stardom.
Any player in any sport who talks as much smack as CC reportedly does is going to get drilled. I would imagine everyone is happy because the WNBA is actually talked about.
I think people should't overreact to the game action and actually listen to what Clark says post-game. When she's off the court she clearly understands and respects the tradition and she doesn't expect anything to be handed to her. Clark and her coach and general manager probably understand how destructive it would be for them to pit her against the league. Of COURSE she needs the league -- it's totally unfair that it doesn't pay better but it is the best place in the world for Caitlin Clark to play, and she has a lot to learn from a lot of other great players.
Yeah sure if it looks like other teams are really trying to injure her or intimidate her, then her team should hire a Rick Mahorn or something, and maybe organize a fight here or there. It would sure be amazing publicity for the WNBA to have a few brawls on court.
I grew up watching the Flyers and one thing a lot of people don't know is that when Clarke came up, they weren't the Broad Street Bullies. They were a finesse team and got to the playoffs and they were flat-out bullied by I think Montreal and Detroit and Clarke was getting pounded. So the Flyers went out and got Dave Schultz and Bob Kelly and some other big guys and Freddie Shero basically coached the team in how to bully back, how to protect Clarke, and then they won Stanley Cups.
Maybe that's where this is going but I think it's premature to say. It's possible this is nothing more than "welcome to pro basketball, Caitlin" and it will reach equilibrium. In the meantime, it sells tickets and helps draw ratings
This board has had more topics on women's basketball of late than the previous 10 years combined I would say. 5 minutes on PTI is probably a relatively new thing as well.
Yep. Get low with the dribble, move the ball away from the reacher, and get that shoulder right into the reacher's head and neck. It makes the hacks think twice .....
The reason Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese aren't like Magic and Bird is that Magic and Bird were much more interesting to watch. The WNBA's problem at root is that most people just don't find it interesting to watch.
This isn’t exactly true. When Bird and Magic enter the NBA, the finals were televised on tape delay. Attendance was actually sagging. That rivalry not only energized the NCAA tournament and who then signed a then-massive deal with CBS, but the media ATE UP Bird and Magic in the NBA and so did viewers and fans. Heading to the Lakers and Celtics could not have been a better landing spot. And they produced! One of them was in the finals for the next 10 years. Jordan was like adding water to a grease fire…but it was Bird and Magic that turned on the NBA.
ESPN is begging for a Reese Clark rivalry in very much the same way. All players and GM’s in the WNBA should take a history lesson and follow this recipe and boat to greater interest and $$$. The chartered planes were the first clue.
Nobody can tell me this isn't race-motivated. Just pay attention to what is said in the mainstream. Unfortunately, people have fallen for the victim card, hook, line, and sinker. You believe what you want. 🤷
I watched the game…she didn’t flop. If Clark had any idea it was coming, then I would agree that she flopped, but it doesn’t take much to knock someone over when they’re not expecting it. And saying Clark flopped doesn’t make what Carter did any better…it was a trash move from a trash player.
She did that one time. The last few games she hasn’t said sh!t. Nobody in the WNBA, not one single player including the best veterans in the league, could go through what she’s going through and not have a few words to say during a game occasionally. Almost every player in the league whines about no calls, but the only one who gets called out for it is Clark (as usual).
Nobody expects special treatment for Clark, just call a foul when it’s a foul…pretty simple really. And nobody complained about Sure Bird getting roughed up because nobody watched Sue Bird or any other WNBA player. No other WNBA rookie ever went through what Clark is going through and it’s not even close.
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The difference is that both Magic and Bird were fun to watch…Angel Reese is not. Her game is not different or unique in any way. You could watch multiple girls throughout the WNBA or college that plays the same kind of game she does. Magic and Bird were unique, Caitlin Clark is unique, Angel Reese is not.
She’s got several endorsements lined up. You’ll be seeing a lot of her
I have to disagree. Kareem was tearing up the league. Not a bad player. Bird was drafted sixth, SIXTH! So it isn’t like he was a lightning bolt expected to take over the nba, until he did. Hard to believe he’s 67 years old
Angel Reese wants her share of the spotlight for the recent surge in women’s basketball popularity.
There was a story with Bird's drafting. He was actually drafted in 1978, and then played an additional year at Indiana State in 1979.
From wiki:
Before the draft, Larry Bird had just finished his junior year at Indiana State. However, he was eligible to be drafted without applying for "hardship" because his original college class at Indiana University had graduated.[10][15] He initially enrolled at Indiana University in 1974 but dropped out before the season began. After sitting out a year, he enrolled at Indiana State.[16] Despite being eligible for the draft, he stated that he would return to college for his senior season. His hometown team, the Indiana Pacers, initially held the first overall pick. However, when they failed to persuade him to leave college early, they traded the first pick to the Blazers, who also failed to convince him into signing.[17][18] Five teams, including the Pacers who held the third pick, passed on Bird until the Celtics used the sixth pick to draft him. They drafted him even though they knew that they might lose the exclusive rights to him if he didn't sign before the next draft. He could reenter the draft in 1979 and sign with the other team that drafted him, and in negotiations with Red Auerbach Bird's agent Bob Woolf bluntly dismissed Red's lowball salary offers (he said that he would not offer Bird a contract that paid him more than the $400,000 annual salary of the team's highest-paid player at the time, Dave Cowens) and made it clear that Bird would enter the 1979 Draft without any regrets if Boston didn't change its plans. Nevertheless, in April 1979, he signed a five-year, US$3.25-million contract with the Celtics, which made him the highest-paid rookie in the history of team sport at that time.[19]
1978 NBA draft - Wikipedia
Why was she picked 7th?
But clearly, Clark is the magnet. She broke the all time scoring record, men or chicks.
Wilbon actually qualified that white star comment the second time around by adding American….no white american star. I don’t watch the NBA enough to know if there’s isn’t a white american star currently in the NBA.
Yeah, when she played Clark’s team, about 17,000 people were in attendance…Angel’s next game, without Clark, drew about 8,000….yeah, they’re watching Angel (good lord, these women live in a fantasy world).
There's not really.
None on All-NBA first 3 teams.
None on 12-man USA 2024 Olympics team
You saying they are no white American women that made the top three all star spots!
If so, that explains the anger and abuse she is getting. They have been playing for low pay, empty stadiums, and Los ratings……all because racist, sexist Americans won’t watch black women play basketball ball. They have been taught their entire lives this is an evil racist country.
Now comes along a good white woman and ratings jump and arenas sell out. To them, this is just more evidence of racism.
Don’t try telling them the NBA Zia like 90% black, Or the NFL is majority black. Or individual black athletes like Tiger, the Williams sisters, Simone Biles, and more.
Facts don’t matter, it’s how they feel,
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Is this gonna be like the time you said the football staff couldn't be questioned because they make more money than everyone criticizing them, and then an hour later, you were trashing the basketball staff at the beginning of a game when they were up 10pts and then just kept doubling down?
Clark is bigger than Kennedy
Kennedy committed a flagrant foul
Clark flopped
She has history - watch the clips - of flopping, even when she wasn't "expecting it."
Two things can be true, as I noted originally, and you seem to be trying to make a point about.
Kennedy can be "a trash player" and CC can have flopped.
It's okay. She is a flopper. She's also a star. So is LeBron. Both can be true.
Your memory is flawed. The NBA championship was shown on tape delay before Bird and Magic.
First WNBA and women's basketball is awful. As in unwatchable to me.
Clark is a great female player but I'm sure she flops, I'm betting she talks crap too. Just like Larry Bird did. That and some rough play is quite common.
And women's basketball is awful.
Clark is a great female player but I'm sure she flops, I'm betting she talks crap too. Just like Larry Bird did. That and some rough play is quite common.
And women's basketball is awful.
Matt has a segment on this. A few things, first always remember that women's basketball is awful.
This pretty privilege argument for Clark along with white etc is just stupid. I do not want to to insult her looks but pretty is kind. She's average looking. She is white, and if that draws fans, who cares .
If black female lesbians played some real kick ass basketball that was worth watching, will say as good as the NBA talent, wise and physicality wise just that they're smaller, I would watch that over the NBA. And I don't watch the NBA right now.
Any WNBA team would get smoked by boys high school team that was halfway decent. They would just crush them.
This pretty privilege argument for Clark along with white etc is just stupid. I do not want to to insult her looks but pretty is kind. She's average looking. She is white, and if that draws fans, who cares .
If black female lesbians played some real kick ass basketball that was worth watching, will say as good as the NBA talent, wise and physicality wise just that they're smaller, I would watch that over the NBA. And I don't watch the NBA right now.
Any WNBA team would get smoked by boys high school team that was halfway decent. They would just crush them.
I never said anything about tape delays. I am saying that the NBA was pretty popular at the time with stars like Kareen Abdul-Jabbar, Rick Barry, Dr. J, Pistol Pete, John Havelicheck, and Earl the pearl Monroe. They didn't need a savior but were happy to capitalize on the Birk/Magic electricity. There were plenty of great black and white players.
As was TV in 1977, there were three networks (ABC, CBS and NBC). Fox didn't happen until 1986. Bird was drafted in 1978. So TV was a vastly different landscape. There was no TNT or ESPN.
Bourbon, you're three days late to the party. You'd have loved it here this past weekend.
Kareem tearing up the league and Dr J flying high isn’t the question. Of course they were. But people were definitely not watching. Attendance was factually sagging, I remember an image problem with drugs and again…..you couldn’t even watch the finals live on TV….anywhere. It would be unfair for me to say the NBA execs saw this coming entirely, and it is fair to say the rilvary was aided by WHO took them in the draft….but they were very definitely the catalyst to turning the league around.
As to Reese. I get it. She’s neither Bird or Magic…..but so far the talking heads cannot stop talking about their college record vs each other. Over and over. They want it to happen.
It was a much different time. Again, with only three TV outlets, you had to have enough viewership to bump a more popular program. At the time, MLB was huge. The NBA's lack of popularity wasn't the "stars" or "white stars", there were plenty of those. And that is the point of the discussion. With Caitlin Clark the league has an opportunity and they will squander it if they allow this treatment to persist. I think the rivaly with Bird and Magic fell into the NBA's hands. They had a good commissioner who capitalized. With cable TV and much more sports programming, it all fell into place. Even at that, they still have been regulated to TNT which isn't exactly a great outlet. Hell, back then, NASCAR was much more popular than both NBA and NHL.
Again, the NBA had personalities but it was not that popular and was in fact losing attendance. They had a big image problem.
It isn’t hard to find the justification from a google but I grabbed this one the NBA itself…the horse’s mouth
“Bird and Johnson proved to be two of the greatest players in NBA history. Candidates, if not shoo-ins, for any serious Mt. Rushmore lineup. The pair of superstars helped carry the league from its rocky mid-to-late 1970s to a global, multibillion dollar industry with popularity, cultural influences and franchise valuations soaring into the ‘90s and beyond.“
The NBA was simply not that popular until both Larry and Magic were on the court and turned them around. Jordan launched them into an international interest. I don’t even need the tape delay argument. Ask David Stern if you could. It’s a matter of fact that the NBA was not moving up, it was declining.
And yes. Your last line is on the mark…..players and coaches do not have to throw a red carpet out for Clark, but they would do well to let her capitalize on interest ON the court. The sheer volume of complaining from players about their pay scale comparing to men’s players and that they have to go overseas to make a living….has somehow blinded them to a cash cow crossing the street.
I agree, to an extent, but it wasn't just that. The three-point line was introduced in 1979, shot clocks, and ESPN started in 1993. Larry O'Brian and David Stern were great commissioners in their era far surpassing MLB. The NHL damn near killed themselves with their player strikes.
So, the bottom line is, of course Bird and Magic helped but they were nothing like what Caitlin brings. Hell, the women's NCAA championship series averaged over 14 million viewers per game. That is more than the NBA finals since Jordan ruled in 1998. The NBA has been, for the most part, flat over the last 30 years.
We'll have to agree to disagree. The NBA struggled to find an audience because they were locked out of the three major networks. The stars were there. Yeah, Bird and Johnson were huge lifts but they had a lot of stars to leverage for ratings. Kareen and Dr. J were every bit as good as Bird and Magic.
CBS reported Cailin has signed to $28,000,000 in endorsements. So winning games is secondary to her. She's made her payday. I am sure she wants to win but isn't desperate. She is adjusting to the pro life. The WNBA needs to make sure she is happy and in the right frame of mind. If not, they are going to miss a HUGE opportunity.
I just don’t get it. Agree to disagree on a matter of record?. No one ever said the NBA didn’t have interesting players then. But it’s a matter of fact that the NBA was losing audience inside the arenas in the 70’s. Drugs image and bad behaviors. David Stern is a direct source for this information and credit league turnaround. Not me. I just happen to remember it in real time.
Well…I’m not exactly sure what we’re going back and forth about, really. This is pretty much the point. They might be smarter to play her straight up…albeit physical…but play.
Hopefully at some point her own players see some of those passes coming because half her turnovers are from almost unexpectant recipients.
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