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OT: Anyone else here into "race cars"....?

GregInPitt

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My son sent me this link and it's pretty interesting. I didn't realize that Ford was currently producting (i.e. slowly producing) a new generation of Ford GT's. I had read that Chevrolet had examined a Ferrari 458, particularly the engine, when designing and developing the C8 Corvette.

I purchased a very low mileage mint condition 2011 Corvette Grand Sport (6 speed manual) last summer as a retirement fun car to take to shows and do a little zooming and love it. If I upgraded I'd be more likely to go with a C7 Z06 or a C6 ZR1 as I'm set on having a manual transmission, but these new super cars are something to behold. We attend some car shows in the north hills that attract Ferrari's, McLaren's, Lambo's,.... which are such beautiful cars and fun to look at and compare, but do people that own them really ever drive them much. It's not like I would even drive my vette to a PSU game and park it at the stadium.

 
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My son sent me this link and it's pretty interesting. I didn't realize that Ford was currently producting (i.e. slowly producing) a new generation of Ford GT's. I had read that Chevrolet had examined a Ferrari 458, particularly the engine, when designing and developing the C8 Corvette.

I purchased a very low mileage mint condition 2011 Corvette Grand Sport (6 speed manual) last summer as a retirement fun car to take to shows and do a little zooming and love it. If I upgraded I'd be more likely to go with a C7 Z06 or a C6 ZR1 as I'm set on having a manual transmission, but these new super cars are something to behold. We attend some car shows in the north hills that attract Ferrari's, McLaren's, Lambo's,.... which are such beautiful cars and fun to look at and compare, but do people that own them really ever drive them much. It's not like I would even drive my vette to a PSU game and park it at the stadium.


congrats on the car. I bought a 2006 Porche 911 4 in 2018 and sold it last year for a nifty profit. I did the same with a 1990 Mazda Miata and made a profit. If you do your research, if you can get a mint 11 to 17 year old car, and take care of it, you get what you paid for or more. Compare that to spending $80k on a GMC Denali and only getting $55k for it three years later.
 
congrats on the car. I bought a 2006 Porche 911 4 in 2018 and sold it last year for a nifty profit. I did the same with a 1990 Mazda Miata and made a profit. If you do your research, if you can get a mint 11 to 17 year old car, and take care of it, you get what you paid for or more. Compare that to spending $80k on a GMC Denali and only getting $55k for it three years later.
Yep, I'll probably hold onto the Grand Sport. Just ordered a "2011 GS" plate for it. I know I paid a premium for it with 1870 miles on it, but it's basically new and I wanted something a little unique, in great shape that was driven easy. There is money to be made but I focus on the stock market at this pont and really do like to buy cars I like and hold onto them. But when I bought the vette I sold a 2002 Acura RSX that I had for 9 years for more than I paid for it. They are fun to drive and there are lots of people that want them.

Over the winter I've been looking at Porche Cayman's. It seems that a very nice mid to late 2000's base or S are available in the 30's and would be a very fun car to drive. The only issues is that I probably couldn't fit my golf clubs it one and that's where I do a good bit of my driving at this point in life. So I may look for a used Lexus IS instead when I get tired of the Hyundai Sonate that I got from my wife when her new Camry XSE was delivered.

Our oldest son is into cars so the shows are something we enjoy together.
 
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Yep, I'll probably hand onto the Grand Sport. Just ordered a "2011 GS" plate for it. I know I paid a premium for it with 1870 miles on it, but it's basically new and I wanted something in great shape that was driven easy. There is money to be made buy I focus on the stock market at this pont and really do like to buy cars I like and hold onto them. But when I bought the vette I sold a 2002 Acura RSX that I had for 9 years for more than I paid for it. They are fun to drive and there are lots of people that want them.

Over the winter I've been looking at Porche Cayman's. It seems that a mid to late 2000's base or S are available in the 30's and would be a very fun car to drive. The only issues is that I probably couldn't fit my golf clubs it one and that's where I do a good bit of my driving at this point in life.
Enjoy it...great car. Regarding the Cayman, when it was initially released the 911 owners were upset because the Cayman's performance was very close, and in some cases, exceeded that of the 911 though it was tens of thousands of dollars less.
 
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Enjoy it...great car. Regarding the Cayman, when it was initially released the 911 owners were upset because the Cayman's performance was very close, and in some cases, exceeded that of the 911 though it was tens of thousands of dollars less.
Thanks.
I've never driven a Caymen but with the mid engine they reportedly handle very well. And even a base model had 250hp versus the 160 my base RSX had which was fun to drive at that.
 
Thanks.
I've never driven a Caymen but with the mid engine they reportedly handle very well. And even a base model had 250hp versus the 160 my base RSX had which was fun to drive at that.
Agreed. I don't think you can get the ragtop though.
 
I race cars, or did til my son was born.

The latest Ford GT left production in 2022. Neat car, drove some of the 2005s that a relative had. He regrets selling them, he made money but they’ve increased substantially the last few years

End of the line is approaching for a lot of high horsepower ICE sports cars. Planning on getting my last gas powered one in the next year or two and then it’ll probably be all electrics by the start of the next decade.
 
I race cars, or did til my son was born.

The latest Ford GT left production in 2022. Neat car, drove some of the 2005s that a relative had. He regrets selling them, he made money but they’ve increased substantially the last few years

End of the line is approaching for a lot of high horsepower ICE sports cars. Planning on getting my last gas powered one in the next year or two and then it’ll probably be all electrics by the start of the next decade.
I'm not really convinced that the high HP sports cars will not be built going forward. Many people that love cars still love gas powered cars and the push by government for electric cars may wind down if Biden gets thrown out. Some of the car companies are finding out that there are just so many people that want to go with electric.

My oldest son has a friend that he grew up with take a job with Tesla in Austin, TX. This young man has always had a good paying job in ciber security and loves cars, trading between various sports cars at least once a year (vettes, BMW M's, Evo's, an others). When he got to Tessla he bought a hot Tesla and recently drove back to PA to visit his Mom, while his wife and daughters went back to another country to visit her parents. He had to stop something like 18-20 times to charge the thing. He took us for a ride and it was nice. Could self drive, very roomy, .... But not long after he got back to TX he traded it for an M2........... I don't ever plan to own one. For me it would be like driving my Mom's sewing machine. I don't care how fast they make them. To each his own, but there is a limit on the percent of people that actually want them.
 
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I'm not really convinced that the high HP sports cars will not be built going forward. Many people that love cars still love gas powered cars and the push by government for electric cars may wind down if Biden gets thrown out. Some of the car companies are finding out that there are just so many people that want to go with electric.

My oldest son has a friend that he grew up with take a job with Tesla in Austin, TX. This young man has always had a good paying job in ciber security and loves cars, trading between various sports cars at least once a year (vettes, BMW M's, Evo's, an others). When he go to Tessla he bought a hot Tesla and recently drove back to PA to visit his Mom, while his wife and daughters went back to another country to visit her parents. He had to stop something like 18-20 times to charge the thing. He took us for a ride and it was nice. Could self drive, very roomy, .... But not long after he got back to TX he traded it for an M2........... I don't ever plan to own one. For me it would be like driving my Mom's sewing machine. I don't care how fast they make them. To each his own, but there is a limit on the percent of people that actually want them.

Model 3 Performance is great, actually very fun to drive. My buddy got rid of his S4 for one but he also has a 911 Turbo...

Biden isn't the reason we're getting electric cars, and US politics aren't the only influence. Example: Euro 7 emission regulations come into effect in 2025 and VW is killing the manual transmission in the US as a result even though its not a US policy/doesn't impact cars sold here. 2024 will be the last year for manuals from them. It's just easier for them to streamline production.

Manufacturers were well on that path well before he was elected and are too far down the rabbit hole to reverse course. Most vehicles are either on their final internal combustion engine generation or about to be. With the next generations already in development as electrics or hybrids. Pretty much no one is investing in new internal combustion engine tech. It'll still exist, but it'll be a luxury product reserved for 911s etc. Everything below a certain price point is going to end up electric.

The percent of people who actively want them may not be huge right now but the percent of people who don't really care and view cars as appliances is greater than the number of people who say they'll never get one.

And I'm not a fan of electrics. I've got an Anniversary Edition Golf R on layaway I'll pickup next year as my forever gas powered car and then hop on the electric bandwagon when its time to replace the family hauler in 6 or so years.
 
Hybrids are one thing. Electrics are another. Toyota, the best run car maker in the world, is betting on hybrids. My wife's new Camry XSE hybrid is the closest I'll ever come to having an electric family car, and I doubt I'll ever have an electric at all.

It will be interesting to see how VW does with all auto tranny cars. The people of Europe seem to like them much more than here in the U.S. I suspect there will be sports and performance cars manufactured with manuals for a long time. BMW is still doing pretty well with them.

Hertz just put for sale (fire sale) one-third of their fleet of electric car rentals. They don't have enough renters that want them. And the U.S. car producers will sell the types of cars that will sell in the U.S. I believe you under estimate the number of people that really don't want them for their primary car. Some will. And some might buy one as a 2nd car for around town. But lots of people don't want them, and won't buy one for their primary family, or for their only car. Cars are something that many people have strong opinions over.

I don't doubt that companies like VW will go for electric. They are headquartered in Germany where people are satisfied with refrigerators in their homes that we would only accept in a dorm room. Ford abandoned some of their electric vehicle switchover. They cut way back on their electric truck production because they didn't sell as anticipated.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
Hybrids are one thing. Electrics are another. Toyota, the best run car maker in the world, is betting on hybrids. My wife's new Camry XSE hybrid is the closest I'll ever come to having an electric family car, and I doubt I'll ever have an electric at all.

It will be interesting to see how VW does with all auto tranny cars. The people of Europe seem to like them much more than here in the U.S. I suspect there will be sports and performance cars manufactured with manuals for a long time. BMW is still doing pretty well with them.

Hertz just put for sale (fire sale) one-third of their fleet of electric car rentals. They don't have enough renters that want them. And the U.S. car producers will sell the types of cars that will sell in the U.S. I believe you under estimate the number of people that really don't want them for their primary car. Some will. And some might buy one as a 2nd car for around town. But lots of people don't want them, and won't buy one for their primary family, or for their only car. Cars are something that many people have strong opinions over.

I don't doubt that companies like VW will go for electric. They are headquartered in Germany where people are satisfied with refrigerators in their homes that we would only accept in a dorm room. Ford abandoned some of their electric vehicle switchover. They cut way back on their electric truck production because they didn't sell as anticipated.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Head of BMW's M division is already on record stating manuals are likely to die with the current crop of vehicles they offer with them (m3/4, m2, z4). Their focus is electric. Mercedes has never really done manual sports cars, at least in my lifetime. Audi is done with manuals. Chevy is done with the manual in sports cars once the Camaro is done. Dodge/Chrysler killed it in everything except the Wrangler. Ford will keep it in the Mustang but even the last GT didn't come with a stick.

Porsche (718/911), Toyota (Supra/GT86) and Subaru (WRX/BRZ) may be the 3 final mainstream brands to offer it in multiple sports car models once BMW drops it. Porsche has increased their pricing on sports cars so much I hesitate to really consider them mainstream anymore. 100 grand for a new boxster or cayman is eye watering.

The rental market doesn’t always line up with purchasing by the general public otherwise everyone in the 90s would have been lusting after ford escorts. I'd buy an electric before I rented one at this point. Most people are still unfamiliar with the logistics of charging, adding that to a trip where you're unfamiliar with the area just compounds it. Purchasing one means you've already sorted the logistics piece out. I know quite a few people who wouldn't have considered electric cars 24 months ago who are waiting for the next generation of EVs to roll out for their next new cars because of expectations around increases in the number of choices available and increases in performance as the tech matures.

Ford botched the Lightning rollout from the beginning in ways that are more than just it being an EV with massive increases to the MSRP from what they originally announced compounded with dealers trying to mark them up.

I'd also argue the Camry is the quintessential "appliance/sewing machine" vehicle.
 
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I have an 06 z4M. I love everything about it, S54 motor, manual transmission, convertible except I have two small kids. Seriously considering getting a 911, 2012 to be exact. Naturally aspirated engine and manual. Love that you can put the kids in the back and go for a Sunday ride.
 
Hybrids are one thing. Electrics are another. Toyota, the best run car maker in the world, is betting on hybrids. My wife's new Camry XSE hybrid is the closest I'll ever come to having an electric family car, and I doubt I'll ever have an electric at all.

It will be interesting to see how VW does with all auto tranny cars. The people of Europe seem to like them much more than here in the U.S. I suspect there will be sports and performance cars manufactured with manuals for a long time. BMW is still doing pretty well with them.

Hertz just put for sale (fire sale) one-third of their fleet of electric car rentals. They don't have enough renters that want them. And the U.S. car producers will sell the types of cars that will sell in the U.S. I believe you under estimate the number of people that really don't want them for their primary car. Some will. And some might buy one as a 2nd car for around town. But lots of people don't want them, and won't buy one for their primary family, or for their only car. Cars are something that many people have strong opinions over.

I don't doubt that companies like VW will go for electric. They are headquartered in Germany where people are satisfied with refrigerators in their homes that we would only accept in a dorm room. Ford abandoned some of their electric vehicle switchover. They cut way back on their electric truck production because they didn't sell as anticipated.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Couple of things here.

First, PA to Austin is about 1,700 miles. If the range of the car is 300 miles but he stops every 200, that is about 8 stops one way. But most people stop every 200 miles anyway (about 2.5 hours driving time). If you put your destination into a Tesla, it will tell you everywhere to stop to minimize the inconvenience along the way. I agree that ICE vehicles are better for long trips but how many of those does the average driver take per year? That is playing into the EVs' weakness instead of strength. I have a PHEV and plug it in every night into a 120 outlet. I go about two months before I get gas. I find not having to stop in the cold, snow, wind, rain to be very convenient.

If one needs a car for long trips, an EV isn't the best choice currently. I actually rent cars for long trips as I don't want the wear and tear, I don't have to buy a big car for my once or twice a year trips, and I save money in the long run. Why buy a GMC Denali for $80k when 355 days of the year a Rav4 does great, is cheaper to run and is easier to drive?

the Hertz case is interesting. The challenge Hertz had is that EVs are so different to use people didn't want to take the time or effort. But once you use one for a week, it is more convenient than an ICE vehicle. Plus the acceleration, convenience, and noise are superior by almost any measure. I rented one in Palm Springs last year and simply loved it and the driver experience (especially the ding when a red light turns green, not having to stare at the red light in the desert sky was a great benefit). I also really like the one-pedal driving, especially on highly congested freeways. It is a great commuter car in larger cities.

Climate is a big issue. Warm weather is helpful as batteries are less efficient in cold weather. I've got a friend that has two Teslas and lives outside of San Diego. She just put in solar panels and the Tesla Powerwall. She said that they use zero electricity and charge two cars every night.

To me the real issues are a) familiarity and b) infrastructure. As the infrastructure improves, EVs will be much more convenient for daily drivers. I get by with level one charging (120v with about 1.5 miles of driving per hour). I could add level 2 (220 and get about 30 miles of driving for every hour. meaning, a ten-hour overnight charge would get me 300 miles of driving). level 3, superchargers, take between 15 min to 45 minutes to get close to a full charge. Add to this no oil changes and very few moving parts compared to ICE.

Lastly, I've got several dozen friends who own Teslas and despite the media reporting to the contrary, none of them will go back to ICE vehicles. I am getting a kick out of the media reporting that 2m Teslas have been recalled. The recall is because the icons for certain options (like 4-way flasher) is too small on the screen. The recall is an over-the-air Wifi update (which shows the power of EVs over ICE, really). Another thing nobody seems to be reporting on is the self-driving feature and what that means in the future. The reality is that self-driving is literally over a thousand times less risky than human driving. the media concentrates on the one screw-up but never gives the story context of humans crashing because they were drunk, texting, or just not fast enough to react. I've heard that Tesla is looking into offering their own car insurance because insurance companies don't want you to know how much better, and cheaper, it will be. This will represent a sea change when perfected. With Uber and self-driving cars, you really may no longer need to own a car.


If you know what you are getting into and buy for the right reasons, you'll love them. Right now, you can buy a brand new Tesla Model Y for less than $40k.
 
My son sent me this link and it's pretty interesting. I didn't realize that Ford was currently producting (i.e. slowly producing) a new generation of Ford GT's. I had read that Chevrolet had examined a Ferrari 458, particularly the engine, when designing and developing the C8 Corvette.

I purchased a very low mileage mint condition 2011 Corvette Grand Sport (6 speed manual) last summer as a retirement fun car to take to shows and do a little zooming and love it. If I upgraded I'd be more likely to go with a C7 Z06 or a C6 ZR1 as I'm set on having a manual transmission, but these new super cars are something to behold. We attend some car shows in the north hills that attract Ferrari's, McLaren's, Lambo's,.... which are such beautiful cars and fun to look at and compare, but do people that own them really ever drive them much. It's not like I would even drive my vette to a PSU game and park it at the stadium.



My son sent me this link and it's pretty interesting. I didn't realize that Ford was currently producting (i.e. slowly producing) a new generation of Ford GT's. I had read that Chevrolet had examined a Ferrari 458, particularly the engine, when designing and developing the C8 Corvette.

I purchased a very low mileage mint condition 2011 Corvette Grand Sport (6 speed manual) last summer as a retirement fun car to take to shows and do a little zooming and love it. If I upgraded I'd be more likely to go with a C7 Z06 or a C6 ZR1 as I'm set on having a manual transmission, but these new super cars are something to behold. We attend some car shows in the north hills that attract Ferrari's, McLaren's, Lambo's,.... which are such beautiful cars and fun to look at and compare, but do people that own them really ever drive them much. It's not like I would even drive my vette to a PSU game and park it at the stadium.


Yes for me. I have a modified 2010 Shelby GT500. I don't race it, but it's a pretty cool zooming around car.
 
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congrats on the car. I bought a 2006 Porche 911 4 in 2018 and sold it last year for a nifty profit. I did the same with a 1990 Mazda Miata and made a profit. If you do your research, if you can get a mint 11 to 17 year old car, and take care of it, you get what you paid for or more. Compare that to spending $80k on a GMC Denali and only getting $55k for it three years later.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the older (2012-2014) Porsche Panamera GTS?
Have been looking for a year now for all the right specs. Test drove one 6 months ago, and WOW.
Will probably never own an EV. Guess I like the VROOOOOOM factor.
 
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Does anyone have any thoughts on the older (2012-2014) Porsche Panamera GTS?
Have been looking for a year now for all the right specs. Test drove one 6 months ago, and WOW.
Will probably never own an EV. Guess I like the VROOOOOOM factor.
i see a couple on Cargurus.com. Looks like they are high 30s to low 40s.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on the older (2012-2014) Porsche Panamera GTS?
Have been looking for a year now for all the right specs. Test drove one 6 months ago, and WOW.
Will probably never own an EV. Guess I like the VROOOOOOM factor.

Can you wrench on your own car? I've heard they're pretty reliable but even regular maintenance if you go through Porsche is expensive, IE ~$500 oil changes.
 
Can you wrench on your own car? I've heard they're pretty reliable but even regular maintenance if you go through Porsche is expensive, IE ~$500 oil changes.
No wrenching for me.. I know it might be expensive maintenance, but the test drive and videos I've watched are awesome. It's a big car, which I really like and fast, an understatement. The GTS keeps me from worrying about a turbo blow. 440 HP is plenty.
 
Can you wrench on your own car? I've heard they're pretty reliable but even regular maintenance if you go through Porsche is expensive, IE ~$500 oil changes.
My 911 was oil cooled so an oil change used 9 quarts. So it was very expensive. I ordered filters online to minimize the cost. I also learned, the hard way, that they don't include spare tires or donuts. The old adage is true, if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it. You can typically find an old grease monkey that loves working on them for cheap.
 
Couple of things here.

First, PA to Austin is about 1,700 miles. If the range of the car is 300 miles but he stops every 200, that is about 8 stops one way. But most people stop every 200 miles anyway (about 2.5 hours driving time). If you put your destination into a Tesla, it will tell you everywhere to stop to minimize the inconvenience along the way. I agree that ICE vehicles are better for long trips but how many of those does the average driver take per year? That is playing into the EVs' weakness instead of strength. I have a PHEV and plug it in every night into a 120 outlet. I go about two months before I get gas. I find not having to stop in the cold, snow, wind, rain to be very convenient.

If one needs a car for long trips, an EV isn't the best choice currently. I actually rent cars for long trips as I don't want the wear and tear, I don't have to buy a big car for my once or twice a year trips, and I save money in the long run. Why buy a GMC Denali for $80k when 355 days of the year a Rav4 does great, is cheaper to run and is easier to drive?

the Hertz case is interesting. The challenge Hertz had is that EVs are so different to use people didn't want to take the time or effort. But once you use one for a week, it is more convenient than an ICE vehicle. Plus the acceleration, convenience, and noise are superior by almost any measure. I rented one in Palm Springs last year and simply loved it and the driver experience (especially the ding when a red light turns green, not having to stare at the red light in the desert sky was a great benefit). I also really like the one-pedal driving, especially on highly congested freeways. It is a great commuter car in larger cities.

Climate is a big issue. Warm weather is helpful as batteries are less efficient in cold weather. I've got a friend that has two Teslas and lives outside of San Diego. She just put in solar panels and the Tesla Powerwall. She said that they use zero electricity and charge two cars every night.

To me the real issues are a) familiarity and b) infrastructure. As the infrastructure improves, EVs will be much more convenient for daily drivers. I get by with level one charging (120v with about 1.5 miles of driving per hour). I could add level 2 (220 and get about 30 miles of driving for every hour. meaning, a ten-hour overnight charge would get me 300 miles of driving). level 3, superchargers, take between 15 min to 45 minutes to get close to a full charge. Add to this no oil changes and very few moving parts compared to ICE.

Lastly, I've got several dozen friends who own Teslas and despite the media reporting to the contrary, none of them will go back to ICE vehicles. I am getting a kick out of the media reporting that 2m Teslas have been recalled. The recall is because the icons for certain options (like 4-way flasher) is too small on the screen. The recall is an over-the-air Wifi update (which shows the power of EVs over ICE, really). Another thing nobody seems to be reporting on is the self-driving feature and what that means in the future. The reality is that self-driving is literally over a thousand times less risky than human driving. the media concentrates on the one screw-up but never gives the story context of humans crashing because they were drunk, texting, or just not fast enough to react. I've heard that Tesla is looking into offering their own car insurance because insurance companies don't want you to know how much better, and cheaper, it will be. This will represent a sea change when perfected. With Uber and self-driving cars, you really may no longer need to own a car.


If you know what you are getting into and buy for the right reasons, you'll love them. Right now, you can buy a brand new Tesla Model Y for less than $40k.
He stopped way before the adertised max range due to the fact that the batteries charge faster for the first 70-80% than they do from there to full charge. If he had waited for full charge it would have actually extended the total trip time.

I don't want to have my car limit my trip length, and that priority exists for many people. We are retired and want to go where we want to go when we want to go. And regardless of how many long trips a person or family take per year, if they want to take their new car they need it to be able to get them there. We have 4 cars but we want to usually take the new one for long trips. I'm not going to take the Vette, the SUV set up for hunting camp, or even the 12 year old sedan in great shape I use for golf. EV's seem like only a 2nd car capable luxury and that's only if you like driving a sewing machine to begin with.

The bottom line is opinions vary. Mine is different from yours, and so on. And if this is still the land of the free we will see how the market takes to them, regardless of how they are pushed by who ever is running the country.

The media can only report statistics. Those you know that like them are likely included in the statistical averages. Time will tell how this plays out but I wouldn't base a prediction of the future strickly on what my friends do. The couple across the street from us had one of the big Tesla's and got rid of it for an S8 Audi because of the limited range. Couldn't even get to his son's AAU baseball games in Ohio and back. And my son's friend that works for Tesla traded his Tesla for a BMW. Opinions vary.

.

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Not sure what the "right reasons" are. Every one has their own priorities. My wifes new top of the line Camry was $40k out the door and obviously we wouldn't trade it for a Tesla. Or two Tesla's.........


 
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My 911 was oil cooled so an oil change used 9 quarts. So it was very expensive. I ordered filters online to minimize the cost. I also learned, the hard way, that they don't include spare tires or donuts. The old adage is true, if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it. You can typically find an old grease monkey that loves working on them for cheap.

The dry sump oil system in my Grand Sport's LS3 takes 10.5 quarts. I'm guessing around $250 for an oil change at the Chevy dealer. But with the way you have to even check the oil level in that system I'll leave it to them to do. Small price to pay for hearing the dual mode exhaust open up at 3500 RPM as you go through a couple gears......
 
He stopped way before the adertised max range due to the fact that the batteries charge faster for the first 70-80% than they do from there to full charge. If he had waited for full charge it would have actually extended the total trip time.

I don't want to have my car limit my trip length, and that priority exists for many people. We are retired and want to go where we want to go when we want to go. And regardless of how many long trips a person or family take per year, if they want to take their new car they need it to be able to get them there. We have 4 cars but we want to usually take the new one for long trips. I'm not going to take the Vette, the SUV set up for hunting camp, or even the 12 year old sedan in great shape I use for golf. EV's seem like only a 2nd car capable luxury and that's only if you like driving a sewing machine to begin with.

The bottom line is opinions vary. Mine is different from yours, and so on. And if this is still the land of the free we will see how the market takes to them, regardless of how they are pushed by who ever is running the country.

The media can only report statistics. Those you know that like them are likely included in the statistical averages. Time will tell how this plays out but I wouldn't base a prediction of the future strickly on how my friends. The couple across the street from us had one of the big Tesla's and got rid of it for an S8 Audi because of the limited range. Couldn't even get to his son's AAU baseball games in Ohio and back. And my son's friend that works for Tesla traded his Tesla for a BMW. Opinions vary.

Not sure what the "right reasons" are. Every one has their own priorities. My wifes new top of the line Camry was $40k out the door and obviously we wouldn't trade it for a Tesla. Or two Tesla's.........
Agreed. But if it is a second car and used as your daily driver, it is pretty cool. They are a pleasure to drive and have a lot of features that will never be in ICE vehicles. Musk has designed the car to be more about software upgrades than hardware. For example, the new 3s have a left and right button on the wheel for left and right turn signals. And it is initially inconvenient for drivers. But once you get used to it, it is far easier to use and than a turn signal stick designed in 1939 or whatever. IMHO, here is why I love teslas:

  1. Quiet smooth ride
  2. never having to stop and fill up the gas tank, just plug it in every night when I get home
  3. single pedal driving
  4. software upgrades that improve the experience at no cost
If my biggest complaint is that I have to take the other car if going on a long drive, I am OK with that.
 
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My 911 was oil cooled so an oil change used 9 quarts. So it was very expensive. I ordered filters online to minimize the cost. I also learned, the hard way, that they don't include spare tires or donuts. The old adage is true, if you have to ask how much it is, you can't afford it. You can typically find an old grease monkey that loves working on them for cheap.

What year 911? 993 and before were air cooled and 996-today are water cooled...
 
What year 911? 993 and before were air cooled and 996-today are water cooled...
2006. it is actually both. it is air-cooled but also takes ~ 9 quarts of oil. Why so much oil? A lot of the reason is to also cool the engine. The engine is designed to be high rev so it takes a lot of oil and also recommends 20W 50.
 
We are currently in what will likely be seen as the greatest generation of sports car manufacturing. Most companies are going all in on building at least one or two sports car models for the enthusiast that could be thrown on the track with a little issue. Honda, Toyota, VW, Hyundai, are all manufactures that build for the masses, but have great performance vehicles that can be had for an affordable price.

I bought a mustang GT back in 2021 right before the market lost its mind. Changed the suspension and have a blast with it.
 
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We are currently in what will likely be seen as the greatest generation of sports car manufacturing. Most companies are going all in on building at least one or two sports car models for the enthusiast that could be thrown on the track with a little issue. Honda, Toyota, VW, Hyundai, are all manufactures that build for the masses, but have great performance vehicles that can be had for an affordable price.

I bought a mustang GT back in 2021 right before the market lost its mind. Changed the suspension and have a blast with it.
Good to hear. I once got a GT 5.0 as a rental car and thought the engine was WAY TOO big for its suspension. I was actually afraid to drive it. It lept forward when you tapped the gas, which was impressive. The problem was that it swayed when you turned the wheel. I felt like it might break lose at any moment if it hit a slick spot.

While my 911 may have had less power (0-60 in 4.6) it was on rails. The handling was a dream.
 
Good to hear. I once got a GT 5.0 as a rental car and thought the engine was WAY TOO big for its suspension. I was actually afraid to drive it. It lept forward when you tapped the gas, which was impressive. The problem was that it swayed when you turned the wheel. I felt like it might break lose at any moment if it hit a slick spot.

While my 911 may have had less power (0-60 in 4.6) it was on rails. The handling was a dream.
Yes, the stock suspension on a GT is a joke. Even the performance pack 1 suspension is not enough. I installed the Ford Performance track suspension and it completely changed the car.

I have yet to drive a 911 but can imagine how great it handles.
 
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I suspect there will be sports and performance cars manufactured with manuals for a long time. BMW is still doing pretty well with them.

And BMW is killing off manuals.


" There are fun products, but let's be honest, the volumes are getting smaller and smaller. And so it doesn't make sense to develop them anymore." “If you want a manual M, you need to buy it now,” Weber concluded.
 
Couple of things here.

First, PA to Austin is about 1,700 miles. If the range of the car is 300 miles but he stops every 200, that is about 8 stops one way. But most people stop every 200 miles anyway (about 2.5 hours driving time). If you put your destination into a Tesla, it will tell you everywhere to stop to minimize the inconvenience along the way. I agree that ICE vehicles are better for long trips but how many of those does the average driver take per year? That is playing into the EVs' weakness instead of strength. I have a PHEV and plug it in every night into a 120 outlet. I go about two months before I get gas. I find not having to stop in the cold, snow, wind, rain to be very convenient.

If one needs a car for long trips, an EV isn't the best choice currently. I actually rent cars for long trips as I don't want the wear and tear, I don't have to buy a big car for my once or twice a year trips, and I save money in the long run. Why buy a GMC Denali for $80k when 355 days of the year a Rav4 does great, is cheaper to run and is easier to drive?

the Hertz case is interesting. The challenge Hertz had is that EVs are so different to use people didn't want to take the time or effort. But once you use one for a week, it is more convenient than an ICE vehicle. Plus the acceleration, convenience, and noise are superior by almost any measure. I rented one in Palm Springs last year and simply loved it and the driver experience (especially the ding when a red light turns green, not having to stare at the red light in the desert sky was a great benefit). I also really like the one-pedal driving, especially on highly congested freeways. It is a great commuter car in larger cities.

Climate is a big issue. Warm weather is helpful as batteries are less efficient in cold weather. I've got a friend that has two Teslas and lives outside of San Diego. She just put in solar panels and the Tesla Powerwall. She said that they use zero electricity and charge two cars every night.

To me the real issues are a) familiarity and b) infrastructure. As the infrastructure improves, EVs will be much more convenient for daily drivers. I get by with level one charging (120v with about 1.5 miles of driving per hour). I could add level 2 (220 and get about 30 miles of driving for every hour. meaning, a ten-hour overnight charge would get me 300 miles of driving). level 3, superchargers, take between 15 min to 45 minutes to get close to a full charge. Add to this no oil changes and very few moving parts compared to ICE.

Lastly, I've got several dozen friends who own Teslas and despite the media reporting to the contrary, none of them will go back to ICE vehicles. I am getting a kick out of the media reporting that 2m Teslas have been recalled. The recall is because the icons for certain options (like 4-way flasher) is too small on the screen. The recall is an over-the-air Wifi update (which shows the power of EVs over ICE, really). Another thing nobody seems to be reporting on is the self-driving feature and what that means in the future. The reality is that self-driving is literally over a thousand times less risky than human driving. the media concentrates on the one screw-up but never gives the story context of humans crashing because they were drunk, texting, or just not fast enough to react. I've heard that Tesla is looking into offering their own car insurance because insurance companies don't want you to know how much better, and cheaper, it will be. This will represent a sea change when perfected. With Uber and self-driving cars, you really may no longer need to own a car.


If you know what you are getting into and buy for the right reasons, you'll love them. Right now, you can buy a brand new Tesla Model Y for less than $40k.
I must be odd then. I drive KC to State College (approx 100 miles) on two fuel stops in 14.5 hours.
 
My wife's Camry Hybrid would get between 45 and 50 mpg at 65 mph and it has a 13.2 gal tank. Not much trouble going 550+ miles between fill-ups.....
 
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