OT: Breasts...

[Hotshoe]

This thread is unbelievable if this is what our society has come to. Send it to HR, then send it to the President. Well someone has to pony up and be in charge. No HR? Company policy anywhere? No, then make one and deal with it. Those complaining? The fair labor standards act should put them right in their place. And I wouldn't have a discussion about it. Simply post the Federal Law. End of discussion.

 

[heckmans]

Don’t answer that question without first talking to HR. Better yet let HR handle it.

^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ Get guidance from HR. The opinion is bullsh*t. It's temporary and for a baby. It's not like she's taking smoke breaks for 10 mins every hour.
Then, tell the complainers that if they want to get up 4 times every night to feed and change a crying infant, get thrown up on several times a week, have their breasts start to throb during a meeting from being full of milk, and feel like a zombie all day, they can have a "break" too, in order to hook a pump up to their nipples that milks them like a cow...otherwise, tell them to STFU and remind them that checking their facebook feed on company time is not being productive.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

The OP stated there is no HR department. I'm surprised that everyone is suggesting CF should specifically address or tell the complainers that the person is breastfeeding and is covered. To avoid any potential issue, he really shouldn't mention the reason or need for someone's breaks to another person.

Source: HR Experience

 

[PSU2UNC]

..pumping.

I took a new job about a month ago and have about 35 people reporting to me. One of them just returned to work from maternity leave and pumps during the day. Others (primarily women) are now complaining to me that they don't get a similar break.

WTF...I never imagined I'd ever have to deal with this kind of pettiness. One female complainer actually asked me what I thought was a reasonable time to perform a breast pumping .

Any suggestions?

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but it is not clear to me why we give pregnant women/women with newborns special privileges. This is not a medical condition; this is a choice you made. If you can't balance that choice that you made with your job, then you need to take time off.

 

[Dr. Evel]

We are a small business, less than 50 employees. No HR group. It's not that we aren't accommodating her it's more an issue of dealing with those that think that are complaining about it.

Tell the ones complaining to get pregnant. 9 months later they can get the pumping break, too.

I really can't believe that someone would complain about this. That is ridiculous.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Report it and let the proper people handle it? Shouldn’t he call the police or investigate it himself?

Oh, sorry. Wrong topic.

This was funny. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[eidolon21]

WORST title to a BWI Thread ever!!

 

[palmettolion]

Considering there is no HR at your company, the next best move is to email the next person up the ladder and get the hell out of the way, don't discuss it in person with your superior. Get your neck out of the noose and make sure it's documented. Ignore those whining or at best, tell them the situation has been reported to your boss and it's up to her/him to make the decision as to what happens. Then state that you will not discuss this matter again and all questions/complaints should be directed to that person.

 

[pandaczar12]

it is not clear to me why we give pregnant women/women with newborns special privileges. This is not a medical condition; this is a choice you made. If you can't balance that choice that you made with your job, then you need to take time off.

Women = capable of having a baby
Had a baby = Took time off work
Took time off work = Passed over for promotion

This can be canceled down to:
Passed over for promotion = Women

Which is = lawsuit for discrimination.

 

[lionroar88]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but it is not clear to me why we give pregnant women/women with newborns special privileges. This is not a medical condition; this is a choice you made. If you can't balance that choice that you made with your job, then you need to take time off.

Says a man who has no clue what he is talking about.

It isn't a f'ing 'privilege'. It is called child rearing and our society has made is damn near impossible to live off a single income. This isn't the 1950s, women have every right to be in the workforce and they have every right to be allowed time to pump so they can provide nourishment for their babies. Formula can be a viable alternative, but why give something that is not natural to your child if you can provide natural milk?

It takes all of 5 - 10 minutes to pump... that is it. She isn't taking a damn break! The pettiness of some people never ceases to amaze me. All that should matter is if the new mother is getting her work done.

As for paternity leave... yes men should get time off to help with the initial rearing of their children. My son had colic for the first 3 months, and it was rough. My wife and I were getting, at most, 4 hour sleep at night and it was broken sleep. No matter what you think, when your baby cries you are awake with a start and tending to their needs. Thankfully our employers were understanding and we were able to alternate work-from-home days after the first 6 weeks.

As for the 'its a choice' argument. It is also your 'choice' to NOT have kids... just because you chose that route for your life, does not mean other people should be punished for having children... I guess your parents would have been smarter and more compassionate for society had they chosen to not have sex and left you in a condom?

What happened to compassion and empathy?

 

[lionroar88]

Considering there is no HR at your company, the next best move is to email the next person up the ladder and get the hell out of the way, don't discuss it in person with your superior. Get your neck out of the noose and make sure it's documented. Ignore those whining or at best, tell them the situation has been reported to your boss and it's up to her/him to make the decision as to what happens. Then state that you will not discuss this matter again and all questions/complaints should be directed to that person.

Yeah - pass the buck.

How about being a REAL leader and explain to the complainers:

1. This is an arrangement worked out between you and the employee
2. This is a manager/employee related item that does not require external involvement
3. There is no 'special' benefit being provided to the other employee
4. The matter is closed and is not open for debate, nor further comment, and further comment on the matter will not be tolerated

 

[PSU2UNC]

Women = capable of having a baby
Had a baby = Took time off work
Took time off work = Passed over for promotion

This can be canceled down to:
Passed over for promotion = Women

Which is = lawsuit for discrimination.

I don't agree with this logic.

Man decides to cut off testicles; requires time off to recover
Time off = passed over for promotion
passed over for promotion = man

Pregnancy is still a choice.

 

[LuvDaLions]

Simple solution, tell each one of them they can have a breast pumping break as well, as long as you get to man the pump.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Says a man who has no clue what he is talking about.

It isn't a f'ing 'privilege'. It is called child rearing and our society has made is damn near impossible to live off a single income.
What does a single income have to do with having children? You can be married (or better yet have a dual income household without being married) and not have children.

This isn't the 1950s, women have every right to be in the workforce
Wholeheartedly agree.

and they have every right to be allowed time to pump so they can provide nourishment for their babies. Formula can be a viable alternative, but why give something that is not natural to your child if you can provide natural milk?
Nope. You lost me here. This results from a personal choice they made that affects their work.

It takes all of 5 - 10 minutes to pump... that is it. She isn't taking a damn break! The pettiness of some people never ceases to amaze me. All that should matter is if the new mother is getting her work done.
For the record, I wasn't talking just about pumping. I'm talking about all of the ways employers bend over backwards for parents (of both genders) that is biased against those who choose not to have children.

As for the 'its a choice' argument. It is also your 'choice' to NOT have kids... just because you chose that route for your life, does not mean other people should be punished for having children...
You have to live with the results of your choices. A choice not to have kids doesn't impact your ability to do your job.

I guess your parents would have been smarter and more compassionate for society had they chosen to not have sex and left you in a condom?
I'd be fine with that because I wouldn't know the difference.

What happened to compassion and empathy?
I have compassion and sympathy for people who have bad things happen to them that are out of the their control (illness, death of a loved one, etc). Again, we are talking about a choice, not something out of your control.

 

[Ski]

..pumping.

I took a new job about a month ago and have about 35 people reporting to me. One of them just returned to work from maternity leave and pumps during the day. Others (primarily women) are now complaining to me that they don't get a similar break.

WTF...I never imagined I'd ever have to deal with this kind of pettiness. One female complainer actually asked me what I thought was a reasonable time to perform a breast pumping .

Any suggestions?

Tell the complainers they can have a break for however long they show you their breasts. Win/win.

 

[pandaczar12]

I don't agree with this logic.

Man decides to cut off testicles; requires time off to recover
Time off = passed over for promotion
passed over for promotion = man

Pregnancy is still a choice.

It doesn’t matter if you agree with it, it is still a reason someone can choose to bring a lawsuit against a company. Something they want to avoid.

Your analogy is ridiculous. If a man injures himself as you suggest, he has some serious mental health issues. It would be easy to show that he was passed over for a promotion, or even let go, because of those issues.

 

[PSU2UNC]

It doesn’t matter if you agree with it, it is still a reason someone can choose to bring a lawsuit against a company. Something they want to avoid.

Your analogy is ridiculous. If a man inures himself as you suggest, he has some serious mental health issues. It would be easy to show that he was passed over for a promotion, or even let go, because of those issues.

Oh, I understand the law and the HR implications. Everyone's advice as it relates to that is correct.

My problem is at a more macro scale (why give procreators special treatment?)

Regarding my analogy, it is obviously hyperbolic. However, I would argue that anyone who chooses to have children also has mental health issues. This is obviously just my opinion.

 

[palmettolion]

Yeah - pass the buck.

How about being a REAL leader and explain to the complainers:

1. This is an arrangement worked out between you and the employee
2. This is a manager/employee related item that does not require external involvement
3. There is no 'special' benefit being provided to the other employee
4. The matter is closed and is not open for debate, nor further comment, and further comment on the matter will not be tolerated

Not a chance I'd expose myself or employment to this problem if I absolutely didn't have to. It's not his fault there is no HR and this is not his call as a manager. It is not an "arrangement" worked out between him and the breast pumping employee, it's a Federal law. Furthermore, refer to PA Oracle's post a few above mine. There are several different ways this can come back to bite him in the ass if he says or does the wrong thing. Not to mention these women have already shown an extreme level of pettiness.

So notify your superiors. What could go wrong? Does your boss oversee the local police department by any chance?

So don't notify anyone, jump feet first into something that has potential federal violations. What could go wrong? My boss handles situations that aren't clear cut and certainly aren't judgment calls on my end. Then again, my boss has asked me to involve her in these type of scenarios. I guess I'm just lucky to have a boss that wants to be involved and gives me a clear line of communication.


Did no one catch that this is a relatively new job for him? This is a delicate situation and imo, it's best to seek a superiors advice before proceeding and document it to cya.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but it is not clear to me why we give pregnant women/women with newborns special privileges. This is not a medical condition; this is a choice you made. If you can't balance that choice that you made with your job, then you need to take time off.

You’re right.

Unpopular opinion. Runs afoul of law and all rational public policy.

 

[PSU2UNC]

You’re right.

Unpopular opinion. Runs afoul of law and all rational public policy.

I agree that my opinion is not inline with the current law or with current public policy. Not what I am arguing. But carry on.

 

[nittanyfan333]

Wife and I have a 16 month old. they HAVE to pump, or risk issues like mastitis and blocked ducts which are a nightmare for them. On average, my wife would take about 20-30 minutes to pump every 3-4 hours, but it depends on whether they're high volume producers or not. She would also pump on her way to work in the morning, then pump on her lunch break. That might also be an option for the new mothers. Would it be worth it to talk to them and ask them, NOT BECAUSE OTHERS WERE COMPLAINING, but would it be an option for them to pump on their way to work and on their lunch break? I think a lot of that depends on whether they are getting their work done. but like i said, when they have to pump, THEY HAVE TO PUMP.

re: the others bitching about it.... i dunno man. on one hand, it's the way of the world today. everything HAS to be fair, and if it's not then people complain. annoys the crap out of me. i mean do they also complain about smokers getting 5-10 minutes breaks to go smoke? Let me ask you this, do these people that pump have offices or cubicles? My wife has an office, and when she needed to pump at work she would flip a sign over on her door, and close it and work while pumping. Is that an option for these pumping women?

Sounds to me like you have an office full of people that have ZERO understanding or empathy. Like someone already said, it's not a permanent thing so how about a little empathy for the mother who is getting ZERO sleep while taking care of an infant, and has to inconvenience her life to pump for her child. Grow the eff up and get over it.

MAN this stuff really pisses me off.... this is why i could never be HR or work in a corporate environment. Something liek this would happen and i'd look them square in the eyes and tell them "well if you don't like it, go get pregnant, go through 9 months of wrecking your body and mind physically and emotionally, then have a baby and get ZERO sleep for the foreseeable future so you too can take breaks to relieve some of the worst pressure you've ever had on your body.

 

[psuro]

This thread has gone well.

 

[interrobang]

This thread has gone well.

Pumped full of emotion

 

[lein]

Tell the complainers that cows have to be milked, else they can get mastitis, which would be painful and mean they would be missing even more work.

 

[katchthis]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but it is not clear to me why we give pregnant women/women with newborns special privileges. This is not a medical condition; this is a choice you made. If you can't balance that choice that you made with your job, then you need to take time off.

Well, it is nice to give considerations to working mothers having children. I'm a small employer with about 12 employees. In 30 years, just had my first mom, that is pumping breast milk. We have been supportive, and all the employees love it. She is appreciative. And while it might appear that 2 breaks during the day decrease her "monetary value", she is very happy during her working hours. Much more so than if we said no.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

WORST title to a BWI Thread ever!!

No shit! I was expecting something completely different from the OP’s thread title. Needless to say, SO disappointed!!

 

[PSU2UNC]

Well, it is nice to give considerations to working mothers having children. I'm a small employer with about 12 employees. In 30 years, just had my first mom, that is pumping breast milk. We have been supportive, and all the employees love it. She is appreciative. And while it might appear that 2 breaks during the day decrease her "monetary value", she is very happy during her working hours. Much more so than if we said no.

You sound like a good employer and it is nice to care about your employees. But I would ask if you would consider making a similar accommodation for other reasons. For example, if giving me (your hypothetical employee) 30 minutes of paid time to work out every day keeps me a happy employee, would you do it?
If not, then you are putting a value on having children above other "quality of life" issues. That's where I disagree (and I don't have to agree with you, because you can run your company however you want, within the law).

 

[interrobang]

Though I guess for the sake of equality, men should also have a breast pumping room.

 

[BobPSU92]

WORST title to a BWI Thread ever!!

Agreed. Imagine my disappointment when I saw it wasn’t about chicken.

 

[BobPSU92]

I don't agree with this logic.

Man decides to cut off testicles; requires time off to recover
Time off = passed over for promotion
passed over for promotion = man

Pregnancy is still a choice.

You have me wondering if my medical insurance covers castration. Hmm...

 

[Woodpecker]

Pumped full of emotion

To keep milking it ...

 

[Langmuir]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but it is not clear to me why we give pregnant women/women with newborns special privileges. This is not a medical condition; this is a choice you made. If you can't balance that choice that you made with your job, then you need to take time off.

We as a society have decided to place a priority on continuing the human race. If this is not a priority for you, maybe you do not belong in this society.

 

[slykens]

Treat everyone fairly, not necessarily equally. Good employees (in effort, outcomes, and overall cultural fit) get benefits of the doubt all the time. Others with issues in effort or fit, don't. Too bad. Some turnover is expected and is often for the good. Sort of like encouraging them to put their name in a transfer portal....

Very much this.

At my company we have worked to weed out the complainers... people who want to bitch about anything or clock watch are often not nearly as productive as people who focus on their work instead, obviously.

In return, we have a laid back work place. The employees are aware of the expectations and generally meet them, if they don't then we sit down all together and figure out how we can help them to meet them. There's no yelling or screaming, no threats of job loss or punitive measures unless their behavior is very poor, and if someone has a special need everyone is willing to pitch in to help them through the situation.

I know that once we reach a certain size (only 11 employees now) that this will cease to be but I'm really enjoying the minimal amount of babysitting I have to do right now.

 

[PSU2UNC]

We as a society have decided to place a priority on continuing the human race. If this is not a priority for you, maybe you do not belong in this society.

I'd argue that we have too many people as it is and we should de-value making more people, but as I said: it's an unpopular opinion.

 

[katchthis]

Though I guess for the sake of equality, men should also have a breast pumping room.

Hey as long as the local 5-0 doesn't find out about it.....

 

[Alphalion75]

..pumping.

I took a new job about a month ago and have about 35 people reporting to me. One of them just returned to work from maternity leave and pumps during the day. Others (primarily women) are now complaining to me that they don't get a similar break.

WTF...I never imagined I'd ever have to deal with this kind of pettiness. One female complainer actually asked me what I thought was a reasonable time to perform a breast pumping .

Any suggestions?

Tell them it's none of their business.

 

[bytir]

It is a federal law under the Affordable Care Act:

https://www.dol.gov/whd/nursingmothers/faqbtnm.htm.

Never said it wasn't. Sorry if my post wasn't clear - my reference is to the "Lactation Rooms" being required (yet) by building code, which is what we are required to meet when designing facilities. However, I have not checked the latest version of IBC because i am not currently using it on a project.

 

[LafayetteBear]

You sound like a good employer and it is nice to care about your employees. But I would ask if you would consider making a similar accommodation for other reasons. For example, if giving me (your hypothetical employee) 30 minutes of paid time to work out every day keeps me a happy employee, would you do it?
If not, then you are putting a value on having children above other "quality of life" issues. That's where I disagree (and I don't have to agree with you, because you can run your company however you want, within the law).

A breast pumping accommodation is temporary. The workout accommodation you posed is not.

 

[Glen]

It is a federal law under the Affordable Care Act:

https://www.dol.gov/whd/nursingmothers/faqbtnm.htm

Nursing mothers are legally entitled to time and space for expressing breast milk. PLEASE DO NOT bring it up with the mother. You will be exposing yourself to sanctions (fines) and/or lawsuits.

You should explain to anyone that complains that this is a federally protected right and they will need to complain to their senator and/or congressperson if they have an issue.

Realistically, anyone complaining about such a no brainier can't possibly be a valued asset.

This thread is a case study of why we have these laws and why they are necessary. The above post is exactly what should happen. No drama, it is the law and there are consequences to be on the wrong side.

It doesn’t matter if you agree or not - in the work place and in management, there is no counter argument- just provide the space and time for a lawful action.

And whether you talk to HR or the next level of management or a lawyer, get someone else to partner with in dealing with the issue.

 

[PSU2UNC]

A breast pumping accommodation is temporary. The workout accommodation you posed is not.

But the principle is the same.