OT: Can you solve this ostensibly simple 2nd grade math problem?

[LafayetteBear]

Stumbled across this on the Web/ Don't know why I clicked on it. Possibly the bluntness of the challenge. Normally hate stuff like this, but since I suffered through it, I want others to suffer as well. Can you solve it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...problem/ar-AAvdrXo?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

 

[Erial_Lion]

I did, but it's a horrible question.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

While quantitatively improbable, it’s quite possible to encounter “half a dog”.

One half is still lying in the street while the other half is being served up in a taco in Tijuana.

 

[NittPicker]

From strictly a statistical point of view, there can be a half of just about anything.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Stumbled across this on the Web/ Don't know why I clicked on it. Possibly the bluntness of the challenge. Normally hate stuff like this, but since I suffered through it, I want others to suffer as well. Can you solve it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...problem/ar-AAvdrXo?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Getting the math right wasn’t a problem. But the question is flawed. So getting the math right doesn’t actually solve the problem. Having the stones to show the right math then confront and convince the teacher should get that second grader some extra credit.

 

[Erial_Lion]

From strictly a statistical point of view, there can be a half of just about anything.

True...but it's gonna be a long year ahead if my 1st grader is going to be expected to think from a "strictly statistical point of view" next year and be able get past the whole "half a dog" thing.

 

[fairgambit]

Stumbled across this on the Web/ Don't know why I clicked on it. Possibly the bluntness of the challenge. Normally hate stuff like this, but since I suffered through it, I want others to suffer as well. Can you solve it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...problem/ar-AAvdrXo?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Why is this difficult? 42.5 small dogs.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Seven possible correct answers if there are averaged sized dogs and large dogs may or may not be part of the group. No need for all the stress, or half a dog in the street.

 

[Cowbell Man]

https://goo.gl/images/bs8nw8

CatDog would fix it.

 

[michnittlion]

From strictly a statistical point of view, there can be a half of just about anything.

True. For instance, "half of some" could equal 1/2.

 

[91Joe95]

Stumbled across this on the Web/ Don't know why I clicked on it. Possibly the bluntness of the challenge. Normally hate stuff like this, but since I suffered through it, I want others to suffer as well. Can you solve it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...problem/ar-AAvdrXo?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

It's not hard, it's simple algebra.

49 = 36 +2x

It's a stupid question, and not standard 2nd grade math. The child who received it was probably being taught to her level of advanced understanding.

 

[gamblepsu]

The article said the district ‘worded the problem wrong’. What’s more troubling is the article that states the actual answer of 42.5 ‘may’ be correct since it ‘makes sense mathematically’.

Ugh... I had a similar problem with first grade where they were trying to teach kids how many ‘sides’ a circle has. Finally got them to admit they are really asking for line segments which is a completely different question. Half the questions they asked the kids said sides have said line segments

 

[harbest]

Stumbled across this on the Web/ Don't know why I clicked on it. Possibly the bluntness of the challenge. Normally hate stuff like this, but since I suffered through it, I want others to suffer as well. Can you solve it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...problem/ar-AAvdrXo?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Whenever I come across something that doesn't make sense, I just tell myself people smarter than me have it all figured out and stop worrying about it..

 

[rohrmd9]

I guess I'm not understanding why people think the question is poorly worded. Seems pretty straightforward to me and the math is extremely simple. The only "odd" part is that the answer doesn't make physical sense (1/2 a dog) but whatever. I do agree though that it would be difficult for a 2nd grader to comprehend. There is no shortage of poorly worded questions on tests but I don't think this is that blatant of an example.

 

[psu1969a]

Stumbled across this on the Web/ Don't know why I clicked on it. Possibly the bluntness of the challenge. Normally hate stuff like this, but since I suffered through it, I want others to suffer as well. Can you solve it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...problem/ar-AAvdrXo?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

First the question is written incorrectly. It should have read:
"There are 49 dogs signed to compete in the dog show.
There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete.
How many large dogs are signed up to compete?

Solution: 49 dogs = 36 small + X large
49 dogs - 36 small = 36 small - 36 small + X large
13 = 0 + X large
13 = X large dogs

At lease when I went to school. BTW. Correct answer to the original question is 36 small dogs!

 

[91Joe95]

First the question is written incorrectly. It should have read:
"There are 49 dogs signed to compete in the dog show.
There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete.
How many large dogs are signed up to compete?

Solution: 49 dogs = 36 small + X large
49 dogs - 36 small = 36 small - 36 small + X large
13 = 0 + X large
13 = X large dogs

At lease when I went to school. BTW. Correct answer to the original question is 36 small dogs!

^^^ Not afraid to temp the fate known as LionJim.

 

[sluggo72]

First the question is written incorrectly. It should have read:
"There are 49 dogs signed to compete in the dog show.
There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete.
How many large dogs are signed up to compete?

Solution: 49 dogs = 36 small + X large
49 dogs - 36 small = 36 small - 36 small + X large
13 = 0 + X large
13 = X large dogs

At lease when I went to school. BTW. Correct answer to the original question is 36 small dogs!

in your answer there are only 23 MORE small dogs than large (36-13=23)

 

[Woodpecker]

I guess I'm not understanding why people think the question is poorly worded. Seems pretty straightforward to me and the math is extremely simple. The only "odd" part is that the answer doesn't make physical sense (1/2 a dog) but whatever. I do agree though that it would be difficult for a 2nd grader to comprehend. There is no shortage of poorly worded questions on tests but I don't think this is that blatant of an example.

I think that it is poorly worded because the answer doesn't make physical sense.

 

[psu1969a]

in your answer there are only 23 MORE small dogs than large (36-13=23)

Please read the problem more carefully. Or are you using new math? Maybe we should contact John Urschel.

 

[sluggo72]

Please read the problem more carefully.

I did.

 

[psu1969a]

I did.

And your next post will be that you are graduate of _______ (fill in the blank with a podunk or southern university).

 

[TenerHallTerror]

True. For instance, "half of some" could equal 1/2.

half of "some" could equal "all", genius

BOOM!

Epic BWI callback . . . I'm done for the day!

 

[sluggo72]

And your next post will be that you are graduate of _______ (fill in the blank with a podunk or southern university).

Gettysburg College Physics and Math
Your answer makes no sense , 'There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete.' if there are 36 more small dogs than large, and if as you say there are 13 large dogs, that means there are 49 small dogs for a total of 62 dogs!

 

[Fac]

Gettysburg College Physics and Math
You're answer makes no sense , 'There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete.' if there are 36 more small dogs than large, and if as you say there are 13 large dogs, that means there are 39 small dogs for a total of 52 dogs!

I'm with you Sluggo72.

 

[Lion84]

I was told there would be no math.

 

[Langmuir]

Sounds like a problem in quantum mechanics. Dogs are quantatized, just like an electron is. If you make a number of observations, you may say statistically that you have half a dog. But for a singular observation, either you have dog or you don't.

 

[Woodpecker]

As a call back to another thread, one of the dogs is in a box and has an equal probability of being large and small. Not sure why those second graders didn't go with this obvious answer.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

As a call back to another thread, one of the dogs is in a box and has an equal probability of being large and small. Not sure why those second graders didn't go with this obvious answer.

but we're still gonna poison the cat, right??

 

[Woodpecker]

but we're still gonna poison the cat, right??

Maybe

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Maybe

ahem PROBABLY

 

[PoquosonLion]

Sounds like a problem in quantum mechanics. Dogs are quantatized, just like an electron is. If you make a number of observations, you may say statistically that you have half a dog. But for a singular observation, either you have dog or you don't.

Right, “Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle” needs to be applied. And even with that, I can’t be certain the right answer will be obtained.

 

[LionJim]

^^^ Not afraid to temp the fate known as LionJim.

You rang?

 

[Op2]

First of all, if they're asking this in 2nd grade then 2nd grade has gotten harder since I was there.

Secondly, the 0.5 dog part aside, I think the problem should explicitly state that there can only be small or large dogs. When I did the problem and got 0.5 of a dog my first inclination wasn't to say that they're permitting 0.5 of a dog in the answer but rather that there is another category they're not telling us about and thus there isn't enough info to answer the question.

 

[gogolion]

First the question is written incorrectly. It should have read:
"There are 49 dogs signed to compete in the dog show.
There are 36 more small dogs than large dogs signed up to compete.
How many large dogs are signed up to compete?

Solution: 49 dogs = 36 small + X large
49 dogs - 36 small = 36 small - 36 small + X large
13 = 0 + X large
13 = X large dogs

At lease when I went to school. BTW. Correct answer to the original question is 36 small dogs!

You seem to have disappeared after being shown you were wrong. I also like how you said the problem was worded incorrectly, and it should read..., but proceeded to word it the same way as it was worded in the OP's article. Maybe that's why your answer was wrong? Because you forgot to reword the question to match your math?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

First of all, if they're asking this in 2nd grade then 2nd grade has gotten harder since I was there.

Secondly, the 0.5 dog part aside, I think the problem should explicitly state that there can only be small or large dogs. When I did the problem and got 0.5 of a dog my first inclination wasn't to say that they're permitting 0.5 of a dog in the answer but rather that there is another category they're not telling us about and thus there isn't enough info to answer the question.

Correct. Problem is we are not teaching kids to think outside the box. The inclination is to believe that all necessary information is within an exam question. Life doesn't work like that. A good (not 2nd grade) test would be to produce an exam that is known to have incomplete questions, and the students must then determine to figure the possibilities and/or questions that need to be asked to get a solution.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Correct. Problem is we are not teaching kids to think outside the box. The inclination is to believe that all necessary information is within an exam question. Life doesn't work like that. A good (not 2nd grade) test would be to produce an exam that is known to have incomplete questions, and the students must then determine to figure the possibilities and/or questions that need to be asked to get a solution.

It's math. No one should be making up parts of a question that don't exist or "thinking outside the box". They should be taking the info provided and coming up with the answer.

 

[gogolion]

It's math. No one should be making up parts of a question that don't exist or "thinking outside the box". They should be taking the info provided and coming up with the answer.

You are right, but this particular math problem does not have complete information. The answer results in half a dog, which doesn't makes logical sense. My first thought is that there was missing information, such has other sized dogs being part of the group.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

It's math. No one should be making up parts of a question that don't exist or "thinking outside the box". They should be taking the info provided and coming up with the answer.

You are obviously not an engineer. There are many, perhaps most problems in life that do not have only one answer. Usually depends on how much information we know or can gather. I'm simply implying that part of knowledge is knowing what questions to ask, or in otherwise knowing the possibilities.

 

[wbcincy]

It's not hard, it's simple algebra.

49 = 36 +2x

It's a stupid question, and not standard 2nd grade math. The child who received it was probably being taught to her level of advanced understanding.

Except you're solving for small dogs, not large, so 49 = 2x - 36. Obviously your answer could lead you to the right answer with simple subtraction afterwards, but that added an unnecessary step!

 

[NewEra 2014]

Please read the problem more carefully. Or are you using new math? Maybe we should contact John Urschel.

Doubling down even when terribly wrong. Nice! You ought to check out a little place we like to call "The Test Board".