OT - Car Talk...

[LionDeNittany]

Just was noticing that Toyota has revamped it's SUV lineup:

The levels appear to be:

2025 4runner starting at 43k

2025 Land Cruiser starting at 56k

2024 GX starting at $64k (although like the LX I imagine this is nearly impossible to get hands on)

I believe all are on the same platform and have different price levels.

Personally I'd go for the Land Cruiser. Not sure if it's limited at all (besides the special edition)

Any good competitors to these?

 

[91Joe95]

Between inflation, new stupid emission policies, Chinese EVs being made in Mexico to avoid tarriffs, etc, this thread screams future political complaints. Don’t blame me, we all know some posters can divine motives when none are stated, and then complain like whiny little bitches. There, I said it.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Between inflation, new stupid emission policies, Chinese EVs being made in Mexico to avoid tarriffs, etc, this thread screams future political complaints. Don’t blame me, we all know some posters can divine motives when none are stated, and then complain like whiny little bitches. There, I said it.

Yes. It does.

But any thoughts on the new Land Cruiser?

 

[91Joe95]

Yes. It does.

But any thoughts on the new Land Cruiser?

I love Toyota, and especially Lexus. Their vehicles may not have the most options, or be the most flashy, but they have everything needed, are built to last with simple regular maintenance, and quality at Toyota isn't something they trot out every few years and then let slip. I don't like the trend towards all these turbos, but Toyota has introduced their new breed of hybrids where the electric motor is used to add torque and hp to lighten the load on the engine instead of the previous versions where the motor was meant to power the car on its own at times and act as the transmission. When it comes to drive trains, they don't offer a lot of different options, but what they offer works and is robust. If it's comfortable and big enough, go for it. You'll pay a premium, won't feel like you're getting a good deal, but you'll actually get what you expect quality wise. They don't cut corners.

 

[SLUPSU]

Just was noticing that Toyota has revamped it's SUV lineup:

The levels appear to be:

2025 4runner starting at 43k

2025 Land Cruiser starting at 56k

2024 GX starting at $64k (although like the LX I imagine this is nearly impossible to get hands on)

I believe all are on the same platform and have different price levels.

Personally I'd go for the Land Cruiser. Not sure if it's limited at all (besides the special edition)

Any good competitors to these?

These prices are stupid, for the Land Cruiser First Edition

 

[LionDeNittany]

These prices are stupid, for the Land Cruiser First Edition

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If the dealership doesn't mark that up then the person who buys it from them will mark it up.

Dealer markup sucks, but why should they leave money on the table?

 

[SLUPSU]

If the dealership doesn't mark that up then the person who buys it from them will mark it up.

Dealer markup sucks, but why should they leave money on the table?

They're still stupid.

 

[LionDeNittany]

They're still stupid.

Floorplan rates are like 7% or 8% these days. Dealerships need to turn inventory pretty quickly.

Should help with lowering markups.

 

[91Joe95]

If the dealership doesn't mark that up then the person who buys it from them will mark it up.

Dealer markup sucks, but why should they leave money on the table?

Good thing inflation and supply chain problems have been solved.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Good thing inflation and supply chain problems have been solved.

Well no one said inflation has been solved.

Supply chain, for sure.

The Toyota Land Cruiser First Edition is a collectors car.

 

[fastlax16]

Considering the 4runner and LC as a replacement for my wife's bronco sport. Don't see a reason to go with the LC over the 4runner. Same platform. LC doesn't get the 6 cylinder since they saved it for the Lexus. No third row.

Markups are BS but its on the consumer to not pay them or shop around. My last 2 purchases were vehicles with markups at my local dealers. Called around and tracked down good dealerships selling at msrp or less several hours away. I doubt they last on any of these since Toyota is going to make as many as they can sell.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Considering the 4runner and LC as a replacement for my wife's bronco sport. Don't see a reason to go with the LC over the 4runner. Same platform. LC doesn't get the 6 cylinder since they saved it for the Lexus. No third row.

Markups are BS but its on the consumer to not pay them or shop around. My last 2 purchases were vehicles with markups at my local dealers. Called around and tracked down good dealerships selling at msrp or less several hours away. I doubt they last on any of these since Toyota is going to make as many as they can sell.

I think the 4runner looks really nice.
And at least they should be able to pump these our once production begins.

4runner is also priced right and value stays around.

LdN

 

[Obliviax]

I buy cars that are 3 to 4 years old. It is a great time to buy as the interest rates have caused havoc and car inflation is through the roof. Right now, 2020s are in abundance but 2021s and 22s will make things tight as these were the COVID years. So I think there is a window of good deal getting if you pay cash.

I am looking at the German small SUVs

• Mercedes GLE, GLC or GLB
• Audi Q5
• BMW X5 or X3

The low end I am seeing is $25k for the Q5 to $40k for the GLE. My experience is that their body integrity is much greater but ongoing maintenance is higher. To me, they just feel safe as compared to the Japanese cars. I still. don't trust the USA makers. I hear great things about the Korean cars but they feel like tin to me.

 

[slykens]

To me, they just feel safe as compared to the Japanese cars.

I think the German cars are generally safer than just about anything on the road. They drive better than just about anything else, too. Where they pale in comparison is in maintenance. Lots of studies to show a 2x-3x maintenance cost over 10 years versus Japanese non-luxury brands.

I will say I've been pretty lucky - my S4 will be 14 years old this summer and just turned 170,000 miles. The most invasive repair I've done was last spring - PCV replacement and while I was in there I did water pump and thermostat, too. Cost about $750 including tools and did it my garage. The 3.0T engine used in my car is probably the most reliable engine Audi has ever built.

That being said, anecdote is not data. IMO if you properly maintain the car you can drive a German car as long as you want, certainly as long as any Japanese car, but you'll pay for that privilege. I think its worth it, so far anyway.

 

[GregInPitt]

My son't manual transmission VW golf is fun to drive when it's not in the shop. But no more fun to drive than the manual 1988 Acura Integra or the 2002 RSX that I owned. I bought the Integra used with 26K on it the Saturday the dream team played their first exhibition game in August 1992 and put an additonal 200K on it over the next 10 years driving my 75 mi round trip daily work commute and hauling my sons around to their sports activities. Drive it as hard as you want and still get 30+ mpg. Only brakes and exhuaust (non-SS) and regular oil changes. I don't really get tempted by Audi's or BMW's. In fast a while back my son was thinking of a BMW and we were in my car driving along after I had picked him up for repair of his golf and I was lecturing him on not buying a BMW as I'd be picking him up every week when the BMW 3 series in fronto of us put its flashers on and pulled over to the side of the road.

Bought/ordered my wife a Camry XSE hybrid last year and it's by far the nicest car we have owned. First Toyota and may be the last as it may outlast us. I can't see how another car in this over priced car market could compete with it for $40K. 47 mpg, beautiful fit and finish, and Toyota reliability and resale value.

Knowing that the Camry won't be in the shop I bought a very low mileage C6 Corvette Grand Sport off of bringatrailor that I'm having a ball with, and drive my wife's old car (2012 Sonata) to golf. I sold the 2002 RSX (my old "fun car") when I bought the vette, advertising it for $6500 and getting $7500 for it.....

My hunting camp vehicle is a 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander, with a set of off road tires and wheels that I rotate on for hunting season and the winter. It's a great vehicle for that use as it has lock in 4 wheel drive (4 driving modes) and Mitsubishi has seemed to improved their reliability as well.

2 of my grandparents immigrated from Germany, and we have a relative that owns a Mercedes dealership in Barvaria, but no German cars for me.....

 

[LionDeNittany]

My son't manual transmission VW golf is fun to drive when it's not in the shop. But no more fun to drive than the manual 1988 Acura Integra or the 2002 RSX that I owned. I bought the Integra used with 26K on it the Saturday the dream team played their first exhibition game in August 1992 and put an additonal 200K on it over the next 10 years driving my 75 mi round trip daily work commute and hauling my sons around to their sports activities. Drive it as hard as you want and still get 30+ mpg. Only brakes and exhuaust (non-SS) and regular oil changes. I don't really get tempted by Audi's or BMW's. In fast a while back my son was thinking of a BMW and we were in my car driving along after I had picked him up for repair of his golf and I was lecturing him on not buying a BMW as I'd be picking him up every week when the BMW 3 series in fronto of us put its flashers on and pulled over to the side of the road.

Bought/ordered my wife a Camry XSE hybrid last year and it's by far the nicest car we have owned. First Toyota and may be the last as it may outlast us. I can't see how another car in this over priced car market could compete with it for $40K. 47 mpg, beautiful fit and finish, and Toyota reliability and resale value.

Knowing that the Camry won't be in the shop I bought a very low mileage C6 Corvette Grand Sport off of bringatrailor that I'm having a ball with, and drive my wife's old car (2012 Sonata) to golf. I sold the 2002 RSX (my old "fun car") when I bought the vette, advertising it for $6500 and getting $7500 for it.....

My hunting camp vehicle is a 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander, with a set of off road tires and wheels that I rotate on for hunting season and the winter. It's a great vehicle for that use as it has lock in 4 wheel drive (4 driving modes) and Mitsubishi has seemed to improved their reliability as well.

2 of my grandparents immigrated from Germany, and we have a relative that owns a Mercedes dealership in Barvaria, but no German cars for me.....

The new Outlander is very reasonable in price and specs.

I guess it may be slightly underpowered but that's overstated these days.

That camry you have gets really high marks.

 

[GregInPitt]

The new Outlander is very reasonable in price and specs.

I guess it may be slightly underpowered but that's overstated these days.

That camry you have gets really high marks.

My older brother bought a new 2021 Outlander on my advice after he nixed the 4Runner due to its poor gas mileage. Even though he has 5-10 race horses at any given time that he pays $50+/day to keep and train, plus Vet bills, etc, he couldn't get by the extra $35-$40/month for gas. My outlander is the generation before his but has the same 4 mode drive system that includes lock in 4 wheel drive and we have found they make excellent off road vehicles for our hunting camp that has decent dirt roads with occasional muddy spots when the weather is bad. We have some steep slopes and roads cut into the sides of mountains that when icy the lock in 4wd comes in handy. And they get nearly 30 mpg in ecco drive mode. The new gen Outlanders are a little bigger which for us is a negative. We like the somewhat narrower older models that have more than enough room for us but get nice mileage. I'm not a big fan of the belt transmissions but neither of us have had any problems with it. They have plenty of power for normal use even when fully loaded. Actually better than the Escape my brother traded in for his.

I don't see how there is a nicer, better engineered, more reliable, and long lasting mid size sedan on the market for $40K than the Camry XSE hybrid. All the modern safety systems came standard on it as well. Lane departure, blind spot, cross traffic, variable radar driven cruise, ......

The Vette is well, a Vette. The base LS3 has 436 hp and plenty scary for me. 100+mph in 3rd gear.... And the Grand Sport model has most of the features of the Z06 (rear side brake cooling inlets, wider tires, dry sump oil system,....) but with the more reliable LS3.

We should be set of a good while, unless the stock market (i.e. my positions in the market) do better than expected and I look for another toy.....

 

[Kasparaitis]

I think the German cars are generally safer than just about anything on the road. They drive better than just about anything else, too. Where they pale in comparison is in maintenance. Lots of studies to show a 2x-3x maintenance cost over 10 years versus Japanese non-luxury brands.

I will say I've been pretty lucky - my S4 will be 14 years old this summer and just turned 170,000 miles. The most invasive repair I've done was last spring - PCV replacement and while I was in there I did water pump and thermostat, too. Cost about $750 including tools and did it my garage. The 3.0T engine used in my car is probably the most reliable engine Audi has ever built.

That being said, anecdote is not data. IMO if you properly maintain the car you can drive a German car as long as you want, certainly as long as any Japanese car, but you'll pay for that privilege. I think its worth it, so far anyway.

I am on my third A4. They were all around 3 years old with less than 40,000 miles and I trade up at around 200,000 miles. This has worked out very well for me. I live on a mountain and never have trouble climbing with the quattro all wheel drive. Used car prices used to be very reasonable. I’m coming up on 175,000 so we’ll see what’s next. I inherited a 15 year old Tacoma from my father, drove it five years and traded that 20 year old truck for over a third of its original new price. I got a three year old Tacoma that was coming off a lease with 25,000 miles right before the pandemic at a very good price . From my experience I would say you can’t go wrong with Toyota trucks or Audi sedans.