OT: electric cars - why the hype for Tesla?

[nitanee123]

I'm not a "car guy" so I'm not familiar with alot of the specs on vehicles or what they mean. I've seen a few youtube videos of of Tesla's and they look phenomenal. So is the hype due to its performance? Is it due to Elon Musk and his reputation as a visionary?

The 2019 Jaguar i-Pace looks sharp and I've seen a youtube of the iPace vs. the Tesla. iPace seemed to outperform (although it was just on a track).

If somebody was choosing between the Tesla and Jag, I would think the Jag would win hands down because Tesla is so new the market and (I would assume) not much data to determine reliability.

 

[blion72]

I'm not a "car guy" so I'm not familiar with alot of the specs on vehicles or what they mean. I've seen a few youtube videos of of Tesla's and they look phenomenal. So is the hype due to its performance? Is it due to Elon Musk and his reputation as a visionary?

The 2019 Jaguar i-Pace looks sharp and I've seen a youtube of the iPace vs. the Tesla. iPace seemed to outperform (although it was just on a track).

If somebody was choosing between the Tesla and Jag, I would think the Jag would win hands down because Tesla is so new the market and (I would assume) not much data to determine reliability.

Tesla is an anomaly in the car business. It has not made any profit to speak of, and is burning cash at about $1B per quarter - after 10 years of operation. It has an astronomical market price due to inflated expectations - i.e. that it will own the market. It also has numerous production and product quality issues, that would sink most car companies. Their only real products are aimed at the upper market segments (even the Model 3's that are shipping are the expensive ones). Tesla is ONE of the leaders in EV technology, but not autonomous driving (which technically is not related to EV - but all the EV guys promote it).

Elon Musk is the reason (even though he has never run any company that was profitable). Elon is good at getting something started and then selling it (the company) at a profit for the original investors. Eventually, Tesla will be seen an valued as an automotive company - not some winner take all internet company.

His latest buyout idea may get him in the soup with the SEC. He appears to have broken several SEC rules.

 

[fastlax16]

I'm not a "car guy" so I'm not familiar with alot of the specs on vehicles or what they mean. I've seen a few youtube videos of of Tesla's and they look phenomenal. So is the hype due to its performance? Is it due to Elon Musk and his reputation as a visionary?

The 2019 Jaguar i-Pace looks sharp and I've seen a youtube of the iPace vs. the Tesla. iPace seemed to outperform (although it was just on a track).

If somebody was choosing between the Tesla and Jag, I would think the Jag would win hands down because Tesla is so new the market and (I would assume) not much data to determine reliability.

I’m a car guy and most car guys don’t like Teslas. They’re soulless machines.

As far as the jag v Tesla question. I think most buyers looking at higher end electric cars are more progressive thinkers and actually view Tesla as the established player in the electric space with Jag as the newcomer. Bell made telephones well before Apple but no one would say bell is the established player if they announced a smart phone tomorrow.

 

[Obliviax]

I’m a car guy and most car guys don’t like Teslas. They’re soulless machines.

As far as the jag v Tesla question. I think most buyers looking at higher end electric cars are more progressive thinkers and actually view Tesla as the established player in the electric space with Jag as the newcomer. Bell made telephones well before Apple but no one would say bell is the established player if they announced a smart phone tomorrow.

taught my 17 year old nephew how to drive a six speed Sunday. When he finally "got" it, it was clear he'll never be the same.

 

[Locolion]

I'm not a "car guy" so I'm not familiar with alot of the specs on vehicles or what they mean. I've seen a few youtube videos of of Tesla's and they look phenomenal. So is the hype due to its performance? Is it due to Elon Musk and his reputation as a visionary?

The 2019 Jaguar i-Pace looks sharp and I've seen a youtube of the iPace vs. the Tesla. iPace seemed to outperform (although it was just on a track).

If somebody was choosing between the Tesla and Jag, I would think the Jag would win hands down because Tesla is so new the market and (I would assume) not much data to determine reliability.

My $0.02: Zero, zero problems with the Tesla I have (3-4 years). Drive one. It’s awesome. Best car I’ve ever owned, not even close (Honda, Audi- which was the worst car, 2 Mercedes along the way).

 

[retsio]

Elon Musk is great/good at 'ideas' and has been the founder of several companies that do work. He was one of the major founders of 'PayPal' and has used that notoriety for other companies (space) and Tesla.

HIs vision is electric use after the tremendous success of the Nissan Leaf overseas in several countries. And since the US automotive market has already announced downsizing of all big cars in the next 4 years (mpg regs.), the Tesla SUV (rear bench seat) is amazing for room and drivability. That is not to say Tesla is not unlike other car companies -- overpriced, reliability, infrastructure, production -- but in years to come, the US will change to electric......if the power grid is developed with solar power (not enough in FLA so far).

Drive one, it is different and the tax savings should be investigated (if you need them). Fill the tank for $6.00 rather than $30.00+ in only 20 minutes or so.

 

[nitanee123]

I’m a car guy and most car guys don’t like Teslas. They’re soulless machines.

As far as the jag v Tesla question. I think most buyers looking at higher end electric cars are more progressive thinkers and actually view Tesla as the established player in the electric space with Jag as the newcomer. Bell made telephones well before Apple but no one would say bell is the established player if they announced a smart phone tomorrow.

Performance wise, are the Jag and Tesla comparable?

My $0.02: Zero, zero problems with the Tesla I have (3-4 years). Drive one. It’s awesome. Best car I’ve ever owned, not even close (Honda, Audi- which was the worst car, 2 Mercedes along the way).

Do you only charge at your house? And do all electric vehicles use the same type of charger? For example, I assume it is not like an Apple vs. Samsung cell phones which have different plugs.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

I'm not a "car guy" so I'm not familiar with alot of the specs on vehicles or what they mean. I've seen a few youtube videos of of Tesla's and they look phenomenal. So is the hype due to its performance? Is it due to Elon Musk and his reputation as a visionary?

The 2019 Jaguar i-Pace looks sharp and I've seen a youtube of the iPace vs. the Tesla. iPace seemed to outperform (although it was just on a track).

If somebody was choosing between the Tesla and Jag, I would think the Jag would win hands down because Tesla is so new the market and (I would assume) not much data to determine reliability.

Jag will have success with the I Pace, but I think it will take market share from BMW and Mercedes’s gas compact SUV lines more so than Tesla.

Tesla’s current advantages over Jag (and the other luxury automakers breaking into EVs) is the supercharging infrastructure, software integration and 10-years of battery development which translates into range/efficiency. For example, the I Pace’s true range is likely below 200 miles, per Top Gear, at a starting price of $70k. The Tesla Model 3 Long Range is a true 310 mike range starting at $50k. Those advantages will dissipate as more EV offerings come online, but Tesla will have an edge for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Beachwineguy]

Test drove one a few years ago with the father-in-law. It was awesome. The acceleration is seamless, making for a very smooth ride. The thing that impressed me most was that the car automatically updates. No need to take it to the dealer if there is a new update. You'll wake up one day and the car does things it couldn't do before.

 

[artsandletters]

Tesla is an anomaly in the car business. It has not made any profit to speak of, and is burning cash at about $1B per quarter - after 10 years of operation. It has an astronomical market price due to inflated expectations - i.e. that it will own the market. It also has numerous production and product quality issues, that would sink most car companies. Their only real products are aimed at the upper market segments (even the Model 3's that are shipping are the expensive ones). Tesla is ONE of the leaders in EV technology, but not autonomous driving (which technically is not related to EV - but all the EV guys promote it).

Elon Musk is the reason (even though he has never run any company that was profitable). Elon is good at getting something started and then selling it (the company) at a profit for the original investors. Eventually, Tesla will be seen an valued as an automotive company - not some winner take all internet company.

His latest buyout idea may get him in the soup with the SEC. He appears to have broken several SEC rules.

“He appears to have broken several SEC rules.”

What?! He’s not paying his players? Disgraceful if true.

 

[fastlax16]

taught my 17 year old nephew how to drive a six speed Sunday. When he finally "got" it, it was clear he'll never be the same.

Good man. My car is a stick even though the dual clutch is faster. I've been struggling with my gf not being able to drive it and not being willing to learn because of the car's power so it may be time to give up the dream and get an automatic.

 

[Obliviax]

Good man. My car is a stick even though the dual clutch is faster. I've been struggling with my gf not being able to drive it and not being willing to learn because of the car's power so it may be time to give up the dream and get an automatic.

never an automatic. get her her own damn car!

A friend of mine, two years ago, traded in his 911 4S for a tiptronic Porsche so his wife could drive it. he was just telling me it was the worst car mistake he ever made. His wife doesn't like to drive the Porsche anyway, and now he hates it too. He was going to take a $50k hit and trade it in on a new 911 4S just to get his manual transmission back (no tears, he can afford it).

he actually bought a BMW 4 series, which he likes a lot, but it just isn't a Porsche. So he's going to dump the 400 and the older 911 4S for a new 911 4S Targa.

 

[MJG-90]

I've been struggling with my gf not being able to drive it and not being willing to learn

Doesn't she have her own car? Why does it matter if she can drive it or not? My wife has driven my car exactly once in the last at least 6 years. And only because my truck (third vehicle) wasn't inspected at the time.

 

[manatree]

If somebody was choosing between the Tesla and Jag, I would think the Jag would win hands down because Tesla is so new the market and (I would assume) not much data to determine reliability.

Considering Jaguar's terrible reputation in the reliability department, I don't think it would take much to beat them in that aspect.

 

[Class of 67]

There are charging stations all over Austin and saw them this weekend at NJ Tnpk rest stops. Germany and other Europeans phasing out internal combustion engines. U.S. naturally lags, helped by current administration, but the ship has sailed.

 

[Bessmoney]

My father-in-law has owned every car known to man (he gets a new car every 2-3 years) including two 750i BMW, BMW M3, Porsche Cayene, two ML350 Mercedes, two Audi A6, two Lexus RX 300, two Volvos, a Saab, two E350 Mercedes and several other small convertibles (we had a long discussion about cars this weekend being that I'm aiming to get a new car in the Spring).

He said hands-down, his Tesla Model S (which is his current car) is the best car he has ever owned. Period. The 750i BMW would be his #2. And the Tesla cost about $40,000 less than the 750i. He also went through ~12 tires over a 3 year period in the 750i, as the car is too heavy to support the low-profile run flats BMW puts on the M sport models.

I was out with him late one night and he took a bend on a 35 MPH road at 75 MPH and neither of us moved. Zero shoulder dip. I think 80% of the Tesla's weight (due to the two batteries) is basically 9-12 inches off the road.

 

[psuro]

Good man. My car is a stick even though the dual clutch is faster. I've been struggling with my gf not being able to drive it and not being willing to learn because of the car's power so it may be time to give up the dream and get an automatic.

No. Give up the dream, then you might as well give up your man card. You can leave on the counter next to Latte Bob's.

 

[fastlax16]

Doesn't she have her own car? Why does it matter if she can drive it or not? My wife has driven my car exactly once in the last at least 6 years. And only because my truck (third vehicle) wasn't inspected at the time.

We live in downtown Chicago and I pay almost 300 a month for a parking spot so doubling that isn’t happening. She does not have a car.

 

[fastlax16]

No. Give up the dream, then you might as well give up your man card. You can leave on the counter next to Latte Bob's.

I’d be getting the same car with dsg. It’ll be a ten second car. Man card will be fine.

 

[fastlax16]

never an automatic. get her her own damn car!

A friend of mine, two years ago, traded in his 911 4S for a tiptronic Porsche so his wife could drive it. he was just telling me it was the worst car mistake he ever made. His wife doesn't like to drive the Porsche anyway, and now he hates it too. He was going to take a $50k hit and trade it in on a new 911 4S just to get his manual transmission back (no tears, he can afford it).

he actually bought a BMW 4 series, which he likes a lot, but it just isn't a Porsche. So he's going to dump the 400 and the older 911 4S for a new 911 4S Targa.

I have a 500 hp vw golf r at the moment. A car for her is not an option (city living) ill either get the same car with the dsg or an m2/rs3 with dual clutch. They’re faster anyway so it’ll offset the sadness of losing the third pedal. If we ever leave the city I’ll pickup a 2 seater with a stick (probably a low mileage s2000 or cayman s) as a weekend car.

 

[bdgan]

Elon Musk is great/good at 'ideas' and has been the founder of several companies that do work. He was one of the major founders of 'PayPal' and has used that notoriety for other companies (space) and Tesla.

HIs vision is electric use after the tremendous success of the Nissan Leaf overseas in several countries. And since the US automotive market has already announced downsizing of all big cars in the next 4 years (mpg regs.), the Tesla SUV (rear bench seat) is amazing for room and drivability. That is not to say Tesla is not unlike other car companies -- overpriced, reliability, infrastructure, production -- but in years to come, the US will change to electric......if the power grid is developed with solar power (not enough in FLA so far).

Drive one, it is different and the tax savings should be investigated (if you need them). Fill the tank for $6.00 rather than $30.00+ in only 20 minutes or so.

I think the tax savings have expired.

I'm not sure why the power grid has to be solar for EV use to grow.

 

[fastlax16]

I think the tax savings have expired.

I'm not sure why the power grid has to be solar for EV use to grow.

The grid needs to be solar (or renewable at least) for the overlal emissions to actually go down. Otherwise you’re just trading car pollution for power plant pollution. At least that’s the argument i think he is making.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

The grid needs to be solar (or renewable at least) for the overlal emissions to actually go down. Otherwise you’re just trading car pollution for power plant pollution. At least that’s the argument i think he is making.

That is a common misconception. Oil burning power plants are about 2x more efficient than car engines, and the grid is about 93% efficient. So if we switched to EVs, we’d need 40-50% less oil to power the US fleet - and reduce emissions proportionally.

The most substantial benefit, to me, is the opening up of regional energy alternatives to oil. If you buy a gas car today, you are locked into buying thousands of gallons of gas over the life of the car. An EV allows regional competition for energy. If natural gas or solar or hydro or wind is cheap and plentiful in your region, then that energy source will win - until something better comes along. An EV permits the market to transition based on new technology and market forces - gas cars tether us to the global oil market.

 

[Lion78]

"It also has numerous production and product quality issues, that would sink most car companies." Quite the drama queen statement.

Yes, my Model S (second one) is the best car I've owned. That's not because Telsa makes a better car than MB or BMW or Lexus, etc. It's because they make a better electric car than anybody and they continually improve the it while it sits in my garage. These two reasons could easily be done by any of the major manufacturers yet they won't.

 

[Lion78]

The grid needs to be solar (or renewable at least) for the overlal emissions to actually go down. Otherwise you’re just trading car pollution for power plant pollution. At least that’s the argument i think he is making.

Then he's wrong. The refinement and distribution of gasoline is one of the most inefficient going. It uses more electricity (generated through the same power plant infrastructure) to generate a single gallon of gasoline (not including distributing it to the car) than I use traveling 30 miles in my Tesla.
So the ICE car is responsible for more pollution well before the gas actually gets out of Texas (or whatever refinery is used), pumped up a pipeline (more electricity burned), trucked to a gas station (more gas, therefore more electricity burned) pumped out into the car and burned.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

Do you only charge at your house? And do all electric vehicles use the same type of charger? For example, I assume it is not like an Apple vs. Samsung cell phones which have different plugs.

About 90% of charging is done at home from my experience. Supercharging stations tend to be for road trips or people in apartments with street parking.

There are several different charger types but there are adapters that let just about any EV charge anywhere.

 

[uhlerlion]

I’m a car guy and most car guys don’t like Teslas. They’re soulless machines.

As far as the jag v Tesla question. I think most buyers looking at higher end electric cars are more progressive thinkers and actually view Tesla as the established player in the electric space with Jag as the newcomer. Bell made telephones well before Apple but no one would say bell is the established player if they announced a smart phone tomorrow.

Beg to differ - consider my self a car guy [not the take down an engine type]-- but owned an M5 (6 spd manual) and My P100D outclasses it in every way except one.. the lack of shifting [as if thats a detriment-- but i do miss it on occasion ]but hey as if paddleshifting nowdays is so awesome?

 

[uhlerlion]

The grid needs to be solar (or renewable at least) for the overlal emissions to actually go down. Otherwise you’re just trading car pollution for power plant pollution. At least that’s the argument i think he is making.

I have solar

 

[fastlax16]

Beg to differ - consider my self a car guy [not the take down an engine type]-- but owned an M5 (6 spd manual) and My P100D outclasses it in every way except one.. the lack of shifting [as if thats a detriment-- but i do miss it on occasion ]but hey as if paddleshifting nowdays is so awesome?

E39, E60 or F10 M5? Definitely doesn't outclass it on exhaust note

 

[uhlerlion]

E39, E60 or F10 M5? Definitely doesn't outclass it on exhaust note

E39
Dinan Stage 3

 

[Locolion]

Performance wise, are the Jag and Tesla comparable?



Do you only charge at your house? And do all electric vehicles use the same type of charger? For example, I assume it is not like an Apple vs. Samsung cell phones which have different plugs.

I rarely charge anywhere but house (maybe twice?) but the chargers seem to all work with my Tesla. Not sure if diff ones.

 

[fastlax16]

E39

Not to be a dick, and I love e39s, but I'd hope a p100d would outclass a car that was released in 1998 in every conceivable way.

 

[uhlerlion]

Not to be a dick, and I love e39s, but I'd hope a p100d would outclass a car that was released in 1998 in every conceivable way.

I had it brand new in 2002 till 2017 --so new car to new car experience. You may not know what it was like to drive "the Beast" in 2002

 

[fastlax16]

I had it brand new in 2002 till 2017 --so new car to new car experience. You may not know what it was like to drive "the Beast" in 2002

It isn’t 2002 anymore although I’m sure it was great. I wanted an e46 m3 in the worst way when they were new. Got to race one recently and it was a never meet your heros moment. Still think that’s the most beautiful bmw ever made outside of the z8.

By 2018 standards an e39 is an average to below average car from a performance standpoint and completely obsolete regarding features. There are 4 cylinders on the market today with more performance and tech.

 

[step.eng69]

My father-in-law has owned every car known to man (he gets a new car every 2-3 years) including two 750i BMW, BMW M3, Porsche Cayene, two ML350 Mercedes, two Audi A6, two Lexus RX 300, two Volvos, a Saab, two E350 Mercedes and several other small convertibles

He may have the opportunity to try another electric car by 2022.


link:
Saudi Arabia Could Dump Musk for 'Tesla Killer'

The $1B infusion could expedite production for the start-up and insulate Saudi against non-gasoline…

 

[heckmans]

I'm not a "car guy" so I'm not familiar with alot of the specs on vehicles or what they mean. I've seen a few youtube videos of of Tesla's and they look phenomenal. So is the hype due to its performance? Is it due to Elon Musk and his reputation as a visionary?

The 2019 Jaguar i-Pace looks sharp and I've seen a youtube of the iPace vs. the Tesla. iPace seemed to outperform (although it was just on a track).

If somebody was choosing between the Tesla and Jag, I would think the Jag would win hands down because Tesla is so new the market and (I would assume) not much data to determine reliability.

Aside from Musk's personality to drive media and position Tesla as THE EV, Tesla does have one major advantage, battery technology. I work for (a diferent dividion of) Panasonic who is the battery partner for Tesla and co-owns the Gigafactory in NV. They have significant advantages in price and power density over the other players.

 

[ivan brunetti]

Everybody loves ludicrous mode.