OT: Fentanyl and your kids

[Jerry]

I recently came across and shared with my kids, who are now raising their own kids, an eye-opening documentary series titled Fentanyl Kills on the carnage this drug and others are causing across the country...now over 100,000 deaths annually. The majority of episodes focus on victims in the age range of 16-22, though there are also stories about people in their 20s or 30s.

You'd think this would be, like, headline news. Granted, a lot of people are vaguely aware but may not know some things that were highlighted in the accounts that feature parents looking into the camera and telling the stories of how their kids were victimized by the drug.

Some points that jumped out at me: A) the kids seemed to be mostly middle-class (or higher) with loving and supportive parents...or at least one parent; B) the problem typically started with marijuana use in early teen years; C) the drugs, in the form of pills, are terrifyingly easy to get and can be cheaply purchased via Snapchat with convenient terms of delivery; D) most of the victims were killed by one single pill that they thought was something like Xanax or Percocet or Oxycodone but actually contained Fentanyl.

It turns out that the manufacturers are pressing Fentanyl pills to look exactly like other drugs, and Fentanyl is so powerful that if the concentration in the pill is high enough, a single dose can be fatal.

You can find the series on YouTube. There are over 100 stories in it, generally 15-20 minutes each, and though I've only watched a handful, taken together, they're pretty chilling and instructive...definitely recommended for those raising kids these days. One theme that keeps recurring in these parents' stories: Don't make the mistake of thinking it can't happen to your family.

 

[Obliviax]

I recently came across and shared with my kids, who are now raising their own kids, an eye-opening documentary series titled Fentanyl Kills on the carnage this drug and others are causing across the country...now over 100,000 deaths annually. The majority of episodes focus on victims in the age range of 16-22, though there are also stories about people in their 20s or 30s.

You'd think this would be, like, headline news. Granted, a lot of people are vaguely aware but may not know some things that were highlighted in the accounts that feature parents looking into the camera and telling the stories of how their kids were victimized by the drug.

Some points that jumped out at me: A) the kids seemed to be mostly middle-class (or higher) with loving and supportive parents...or at least one parent; B) the problem typically started with marijuana use in early teen years; C) the drugs, in the form of pills, are terrifyingly easy to get and can be cheaply purchased via Snapchat with convenient terms of delivery; D) most of the victims were killed by one single pill that they thought was something like Xanax or Percocet or Oxycodone but actually contained Fentanyl.

It turns out that the manufacturers are pressing Fentanyl pills to look exactly like other drugs, and Fentanyl is so powerful that if the concentration in the pill is high enough, a single dose can be fatal.

You can find the series on YouTube. There are over 100 stories in it, generally 15-20 minutes each, and though I've only watched a handful, taken together, they're pretty chilling and instructive...definitely recommended for those raising kids these days. One theme that keeps recurring in these parents' stories: Don't make the mistake of thinking it can't happen to your family.

Thanks for the post. Two things I'd like to add.

it is common for dealers to lace F into lighter drugs to separate their product and be able to charge more. The problem is, that they don't have a clue what they are doing. There is no process, no control. So many deaths are accidental in that the kid doesn't know they are doing F. When you read an article that multiple kids suffered an overdose, this is the likely cause. The point here is that a kid can easily OD on F even if they don't know they are taking it.

Second, there has been legislation considered to make dealing F a manslaughter charge. The thinking is that if you are dealing F, you almost certainly will have killed someone. And if you kill someone by mistake during a crime, that is manslaughter.

 

[voltz99]

Thanks for the post. Two things I'd like to add.

it is common for dealers to lace F into lighter drugs to separate their product and be able to charge more. The problem is, that they don't have a clue what they are doing. There is no process, no control. So many deaths are accidental in that the kid doesn't know they are doing F. When you read an article that multiple kids suffered an overdose, this is the likely cause. The point here is that a kid can easily OD on F even if they don't know they are taking it.

Second, there has been legislation considered to make dealing F a manslaughter charge. The thinking is that if you are dealing F, you almost certainly will have killed someone. And if you kill someone by mistake during a crime, that is manslaughter.

Are you saying drug dealers are not all in jail for just a little pot?

 

[voltz99]

We can thank Brandon's failed drug policies, catch and release prisons, defund the police, open borders, and zero cash bail.

 

[Obliviax]

Are you saying drug dealers are not all in jail for just a little pot?

I don't understand the question.

 

[knickslions]

We can thank Brandon's failed drug policies, catch and release prisons, defund the police, open borders, and zero cash bail.

Fentanyl deaths have been high for a long time including during orange man’s term. They are finding more and more ways to incorporate it in other drugs.

 

[voltz99]

Fentanyl deaths have been high for a long time including during orange man’s term. They are finding more and more ways to incorporate it in other drugs.

Overdose deaths in Philly hit a record under Brandon.

Can you name any policies you ever supported that reduced crime or improved the schools?

 

[knickslions]

Overdose deaths in Philly hit a record under Brandon.

Can you name any policies you ever supported that reduced crime or improved the schools?

This is has been a national crisis for a long time and hasn’t mattered who was President.

 

[Obliviax]

This is has been a national crisis for a long time and hasn’t mattered who was President.

Agree and disagree. I agree in terms of drugs being a problem for several decades. But the stats show that it is getting worse.

So to that end, would agree that two issues have really hurt the war on drugs: failed COVID shutdown policies and open borders.

I'll no longer respond to this thread but am interested in your comments because, to me, this is not controversial but fact.

 

[voltz99]

This is has been a national crisis for a long time and hasn’t mattered who was President.

It got worse with Brandon. ODs were UP!

What is Brandon's plan? More of the same failed policies, expand the failed policies or will he go back to the policies we used when we had LESS ODs?

 

[knickslions]

Agree and disagree. I agree in terms of drugs being a problem for several decades. But the stats show that it is getting worse.

So to that end, would agree that two issues have really hurt the war on drugs: failed COVID shutdown policies and open borders.

I'll no longer respond to this thread but am interested in your comments because, to me, this is not controversial but fact.

I agree it’s getting worse daily and blame all of government. Sticking with fentanyl since it started to blossom in 2014 its deaths have gone up every year a lot no matter who was at the top. It will take a collective full government effort to attack this from both parties. It’s embarrassing and sad

 

[knickslions]

It got worse with Brandon. ODs were UP!

What is Brandon's plan? More of the same failed policies, expand the failed policies or will he go back to the policies we used when we had LESS ODs?

Last response to you. Ods went up a ton when your boy was in compared to previous president. It’s a national crisis that takes a collective effort to attack

 

[voltz99]

We should round up all the homeless and the druggies, give them a beating and make them work. It will be good for their mental heath. A steady schedule of work, sleep, exercise is good for them. Mix in a random beating for anyone who does not produce. We can start rebuilding the infrastructure and cleaning up the litter with cheap labor. T

Liberals who dont support my plan obviously hate infrastructure, clean energy and the environment.

 

[Fletchster1]

When bad actions aren't punished, society gets more bad actions...

 

[Jerry]

Thanks for the post. Two things I'd like to add.

it is common for dealers to lace F into lighter drugs to separate their product and be able to charge more. The problem is, that they don't have a clue what they are doing. There is no process, no control. So many deaths are accidental in that the kid doesn't know they are doing F. When you read an article that multiple kids suffered an overdose, this is the likely cause. The point here is that a kid can easily OD on F even if they don't know they are taking it.

Second, there has been legislation considered to make dealing F a manslaughter charge. The thinking is that if you are dealing F, you almost certainly will have killed someone. And if you kill someone by mistake during a crime, that is manslaughter.

Thanks, Obli, both excellent points.

As best as I can understand, Fentanyl is very cheap to produce and so is profitable as a counterfeit for any number of other drugs like Xanax and Percocet.

Obviously the dealers are aiming to hook, rather than kill, their client base, but as you note, the manufacturing process is not scientific. There are no controls.

This can lead to bizarre situations where two kids split a pill. One dies...the one that got the half with the most concentrated Fentanyl...while the other is not hurt.

I think I mentioned on the other board a couple weeks ago in the post about my jury duty that the state put a detective on the stand who testified that the drug counterfeit issue has gotten so acute that those buying pills on the street (or on Snapchat) are playing Russian Roulette with their lives. The guy said people are dying right and left from overdoses of Fentanyl that they never knew they took.

I'm deliberately not bringing politics into this because it's against the rules here...plus no matter how you assign blame, our kids are still potentially vulnerable, so that's the main thing now and also the reason for my post.

 

[RickinDayton]

I recently came across and shared with my kids, who are now raising their own kids, an eye-opening documentary series titled Fentanyl Kills on the carnage this drug and others are causing across the country...now over 100,000 deaths annually. The majority of episodes focus on victims in the age range of 16-22, though there are also stories about people in their 20s or 30s.

You'd think this would be, like, headline news. Granted, a lot of people are vaguely aware but may not know some things that were highlighted in the accounts that feature parents looking into the camera and telling the stories of how their kids were victimized by the drug.

Some points that jumped out at me: A) the kids seemed to be mostly middle-class (or higher) with loving and supportive parents...or at least one parent; B) the problem typically started with marijuana use in early teen years; C) the drugs, in the form of pills, are terrifyingly easy to get and can be cheaply purchased via Snapchat with convenient terms of delivery; D) most of the victims were killed by one single pill that they thought was something like Xanax or Percocet or Oxycodone but actually contained Fentanyl.

It turns out that the manufacturers are pressing Fentanyl pills to look exactly like other drugs, and Fentanyl is so powerful that if the concentration in the pill is high enough, a single dose can be fatal.

You can find the series on YouTube. There are over 100 stories in it, generally 15-20 minutes each, and though I've only watched a handful, taken together, they're pretty chilling and instructive...definitely recommended for those raising kids these days. One theme that keeps recurring in these parents' stories: Don't make the mistake of thinking it can't happen to your family.

Thank you. I'll tell my kids & their spouses about this and hope they will view with their kids.

 

[Obliviax]

Thanks, Obli, both excellent points.

As best as I can understand, Fentanyl is very cheap to produce and so is profitable as a counterfeit for any number of other drugs like Xanax and Percocet.

Obviously the dealers are aiming to hook, rather than kill, their client base, but as you note, the manufacturing process is not scientific. There are no controls.

This can lead to bizarre situations where two kids split a pill. One dies...the one that got the half with the most concentrated Fentanyl...while the other is not hurt.

I think I mentioned on the other board a couple weeks ago in the post about my jury duty that the state put a detective on the stand who testified that the drug counterfeit issue has gotten so acute that those buying pills on the street (or on Snapchat) are playing Russian Roulette with their lives. The guy said people are dying right and left from overdoses of Fentanyl that they never knew they took.

I'm deliberately not bringing politics into this because it's against the rules here...plus no matter how you assign blame, our kids are still potentially vulnerable, so that's the main thing now and also the reason for my post.

my wife has done some work in this area. unfortunately, once hooked, people are close to lost causes. It is really hard to get people back for a lot of different reasons. And the courts are now giving max sentences for dealers.

I found this, which is incredibly eye-opening on the subject:

What is fentanyl and why is it so dangerous?​

Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid that is up to 50 times stronger than heroin and 100 times stronger than morphine. Like other opioids, fentanyl use can lead to dependency and addiction. Most illicit fentanyl is made in labs outside the country and smuggled across the US-Mexico border.

Early in the opioid epidemic, overdose deaths were largely driven by a flood of prescriptions for drugs such as Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, Oxymorphone, and Morphine. Pharmaceutical fentanyl was approved by the Food and Drug Administration as a pain reliever in 1998 and was typically prescribed to patients with severe or chronic pain. As prescriptions for these drugs fell, heroin, and eventually illegally made fentanyl, became the main cause of opioid overdose deaths.

Drug dealers may mix fentanyl with other drugs such as heroin, cocaine, meth, and MDMA to increase the drugs’ effects — sometimes without the user’s knowledge.

 

[lion4ever76]

If you want to die, do drugs. There is a reason they used to call it dope. Only a dope would take drugs.

 

[EPC FAN]

We should round up all the homeless and the druggies, give them a beating and make them work. It will be good for their mental heath. A steady schedule of work, sleep, exercise is good for them. Mix in a random beating for anyone who does not produce. We can start rebuilding the infrastructure and cleaning up the litter with cheap labor. T

Liberals who dont support my plan obviously hate infrastructure, clean energy and the environment.

PLEASE MOVE THIS CRAP TO THE NUT JOB BOARD.

 

[Erial_Lion]

PLEASE MOVE THIS CRAP TO THE NUT JOB BOARD.

You’d probably need to tag @Richie O and/or @Dylan Callaghan-Croley , as I don’t believe they monitor the board too closely.

 

[jimarnp]

I recently came across and shared with my kids, who are now raising their own kids, an eye-opening documentary series titled Fentanyl Kills on the carnage this drug and others are causing across the country...now over 100,000 deaths annually. The majority of episodes focus on victims in the age range of 16-22, though there are also stories about people in their 20s or 30s.

You'd think this would be, like, headline news. Granted, a lot of people are vaguely aware but may not know some things that were highlighted in the accounts that feature parents looking into the camera and telling the stories of how their kids were victimized by the drug.

Some points that jumped out at me: A) the kids seemed to be mostly middle-class (or higher) with loving and supportive parents...or at least one parent; B) the problem typically started with marijuana use in early teen years; C) the drugs, in the form of pills, are terrifyingly easy to get and can be cheaply purchased via Snapchat with convenient terms of delivery; D) most of the victims were killed by one single pill that they thought was something like Xanax or Percocet or Oxycodone but actually contained Fentanyl.

It turns out that the manufacturers are pressing Fentanyl pills to look exactly like other drugs, and Fentanyl is so powerful that if the concentration in the pill is high enough, a single dose can be fatal.

You can find the series on YouTube. There are over 100 stories in it, generally 15-20 minutes each, and though I've only watched a handful, taken together, they're pretty chilling and instructive...definitely recommended for those raising kids these days. One theme that keeps recurring in these parents' stories: Don't make the mistake of thinking it can't happen to your family.

Fentanyl is coming over the open boarder in massive amounts. Much is from China through the cartels. It’s so powerful, that if it brushes up against your skin or mucosa, your blood pressure can drop to virtually zero. —-The greatest percentage of exposure and deaths caused by this drug can be easily prevented. They ( government) are choosing not to do so. The entire mess is heartbreaking.

 

[Jerry]

I agree it’s getting worse daily and blame all of government. Sticking with fentanyl since it started to blossom in 2014 its deaths have gone up every year a lot no matter who was at the top. It will take a collective full government effort to attack this from both parties. It’s embarrassing and sad

Yes, Fentanyl started showing up on the street around 10 years ago. Alarm bells were ringing by 2017. In fact, in January of that year, right here on Tom's board, I posted the article linked below about the damage being done in Wilkes Barre, just down the road from where I went to college.

Now, seven years from the date of that report, it's a full-blown epidemic...a crisis by any measure. Working-class communities in states like Pennsylvania have been hit hard. In West Virginia, stores and churches stock Narcan, a potentially life-saving antidote for drug overdoses. Kids all across the country are dying. Over 100,000 total deaths last year...and each year the number goes up.

Yet...crickets. Compare the relative silence now with the frantic outcries over other public health issues like AIDS, Covid, even deaths on the highway. There was a time when 50,000 people a year were killed in auto accidents, and we got mandated seat belts, air bags, etc. I mean, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, did it make a sound? If 100,000 people a year are killed in an epidemic of illegal drugs, starring Fentanyl, but no fuss is made about it, is it even happening? Apparently not.

How heroin turned this town into 'the most unhappy place' in the U.S.

Last year there were 137 fatal drug overdoses in a county of just 318,000 people.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[87 Penn St8]

Yes, Fentanyl started showing up on the street around 10 years ago. Alarm bells were ringing by 2017. In fact, in January of that year, right here on Tom's board, I posted the article linked below about the damage being done in Wilkes Barre, just down the road from where I went to college.

Now, seven years from the date of that report, it's a full-blown epidemic...a crisis by any measure. Working-class communities in states like Pennsylvania have been hit hard. In West Virginia, stores and churches stock Narcan, a potentially life-saving antidote for drug overdoses. Kids all across the country are dying. Over 100,000 total deaths last year...and each year the number goes up.

Yet...crickets. Compare the relative silence now with the frantic outcries over other public health issues like AIDS, Covid, even deaths on the highway. There was a time when 50,000 people a year were killed in auto accidents, and we got mandated seat belts, air bags, etc. I mean, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, did it make a sound? If 100,000 people a year are killed in an epidemic of illegal drugs, starring Fentanyl, but no fuss is made about it, is it even happening? Apparently not.

How heroin turned this town into 'the most unhappy place' in the U.S.

Last year there were 137 fatal drug overdoses in a county of just 318,000 people.

www.nbcnews.com

As a high school teacher and a parent who attends Compassionate Friends meetings I know of the epidemic all too well.

The kids from my area who have overdosed have names and often had issues. But not always. Occasionally an unexpected shock happens too. A kid who was looking for a little extra high, or maybe was unaware of a lacing, becomes a statistic.

My daughter passed in 2018 of a bizarre natural cause. Compassionate Friends is a Sad Ass Club for grieving parents who have lost children. The "new" members who have suffered loss from opioids or fentanyl are the top causes.

There are ads now in the Philly area for free/no questions asked Narcan available at pharmacies in NJ. Some college students are carrying Narcan when going out. This past Fall one of my pupils who is now at Bama wrote to share that someone overdosed at a party- and she watched as another partygoer saved their life. She was stunned.

There is plenty of blame to go around and nobody has the silver bullet. The bottom line is that we can and should do more.

Look up the history of The Opium Wars 1839-1860. England/Europe essentially conquered China by "introducing" opium to the population in order to have a desired good to trade for silks, porcelin and tea. They created millions of junkies which crippled the social structure. When the Chinese rebelled against the trade, Britain destroyed them, took all of their silver as reparations, voided any duties to be paid to the government, and then gave other countries areas to control. It is a shameful part of Western "Civilization."

Now the tables are turned. China is playing the long game. Cheap Vape carts and Fentanyl are addicting and killing our youth.

If "turnabout is fair play" then we can partially blame ourselves. The time to mount a defense is long past...

 

[Jerry]

As a high school teacher and a parent who attends Compassionate Friends meetings I know of the epidemic all too well.

The kids from my area who have overdosed have names and often had issues. But not always. Occasionally an unexpected shock happens too. A kid who was looking for a little extra high, or maybe was unaware of a lacing, becomes a statistic.

My daughter passed in 2018 of a bizarre natural cause. Compassionate Friends is a Sad Ass Club for grieving parents who have lost children. The "new" members who have suffered loss from opioids or fentanyl are the top causes.

There are ads now in the Philly area for free/no questions asked Narcan available at pharmacies in NJ. Some college students are carrying Narcan when going out. This past Fall one of my pupils who is now at Bama wrote to share that someone overdosed at a party- and she watched as another partygoer saved their life. She was stunned.

There is plenty of blame to go around and nobody has the silver bullet. The bottom line is that we can and should do more.

Look up the history of The Opium Wars 1839-1860. England/Europe essentially conquered China by "introducing" opium to the population in order to have a desired good to trade for silks, porcelin and tea. They created millions of junkies which crippled the social structure. When the Chinese rebelled against the trade, Britain destroyed them, took all of their silver as reparations, voided any duties to be paid to the government, and then gave other countries areas to control. It is a shameful part of Western "Civilization."

Now the tables are turned. China is playing the long game. Cheap Vape carts and Fentanyl are addicting and killing our youth.

If "turnabout is fair play" then we can partially blame ourselves. The time to mount a defense is long past...

Thanks, great comment and observations.

Very sorry to hear about your daughter.

 

[Dylan Callaghan-Croley]

Going to lock this discussion for now. Just to review everything.