...in before the hbo shitshow this weekend. There is nothing here that can be soundly refuted. Nothing. The secret Ira tape is the cherry on the sundae.
Listen here
Listen here
OT: Hate to do it, but new thread on JZ's best hour defense of JVP (w/ Secret Ira Tape)...
- Thread starter MtNittany
- Start date
The Ira segment was inaudible for me. Anyone able to hear it clearly? what is the gist of what Ira says from your view?
Yes - we need a transcript of what Ira is saying. The audio is rather tough to pick up.
Also, some context - who is the female asking Ira questions?
I listened --- I didn't hear any really new facts or arguments here.
Ziegler, as usual, struggles to keep to the rails. He talks at the beginning about how he's going to focus on JoePa (given the movie coming out). OK, fair enough.
Then he spends 40% of his time on Sandusky and Sandusky's "innocence", 30% of his time on McQueary, and 20% of his time on Paterno. Not Joe Paterno, mind you, but Scott Paterno. Only 10% of his time on JoePa.
Ira Lubert is not wrong when he says at 45:45 --- "at the end of the day, we have 5 people. 2 were convicted, 2 pled guilty, and 1 said, in hindsight, I wish I had done more."
Ziegler, as usual, struggles to keep to the rails. He talks at the beginning about how he's going to focus on JoePa (given the movie coming out). OK, fair enough.
Then he spends 40% of his time on Sandusky and Sandusky's "innocence", 30% of his time on McQueary, and 20% of his time on Paterno. Not Joe Paterno, mind you, but Scott Paterno. Only 10% of his time on JoePa.
Ira Lubert is not wrong when he says at 45:45 --- "at the end of the day, we have 5 people. 2 were convicted, 2 pled guilty, and 1 said, in hindsight, I wish I had done more."
Ira basically said Joe, Tim, Gary & Graham are good guys, but there was a failure of leadership. Ergo they had to go. He'd expect the same of anyone who worked for him.
Some of the victims were on the gravy train, others claimed more happened to them then they originally said, some of the lawyers upped the claims.
Meh. Nothing to get excited about.
All likely true. We settled with ~36 victims. Were all of them telling the 100% truth? I doubt it.
That's the uglier side of our species. There are quite a few lying conniving humans out there. When Prince died a few years ago, all of a sudden there were several hundred folk who were Prince's "half-sibling" that appeared on the scene. Uh huh.
All that said, I think Lubert's big-picture strategy was right. Settle with nearly everyone, don't investigate their claims overly much. It's better in the long-run (public image) to get the claims off the books vs. fighting protracted struggles. That strategy also serves the best interests of those folk who truly ARE victims. It doesn't do them any good to go through those experiences yet again.
As for any folk who may have gotten some "free $$$" from Penn State by making up lies --- I believe in the afterlife and eventual justice. They won't get away with their misdeeds forever.
Anyway, Michigan State appears ready to try the opposite strategy as regards Nassar's victims (some of those folk probably aren't telling the 100% truth either). I don't think that strategy is going to play out well for MSU.
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Removing the Paterno quote, because he obviously doesn't understand it... He conveniently ignores that his actions are the reason for most of those outcomes. That doesn't validate his actions. Had he and the rest of the BOT not thrown everybody under the bus, the outcome would have been much different "at the end of the day".
I also don't understand his reference to 5 people. Why 5? Why does he lump JS in with the 4 other PSU employees, but ignore the failures of MM, JM, Dranov, and JR?
Don't forget Ira's summer camp......he could have put himself in there as well.
Done more is exactly Lubert's style.
Lubert was the trustee who chaired the board committee that oversaw negotiations. A real estate and private equity executive, Lubert is a longtime friend of former Second Mile board chair Bob Poole; the two share a suite at Penn State football games. In the 2000s, state records show, Lubert was also part-owner of a summer camp the Second Mile visited. (Poole and former Second Mile executive director Jack Raykovitz did not respond to multiple requests to comment. In 2012, the Second Mile shuttered, and another charity took over some of its programs and assets.)
In a phone interview, Lubert denied his Second Mile connections influenced negotiations. Penn State spokesman Lawrence Lokman, in an email, termed it “an absurd stretch of reality” for anyone to consider Lubert had a conflict of interest.
Nicholas Mirkay, a University of Hawaii law school professor and nonprofit governance expert, said Lubert’s relationship with the Second Mile gave the appearance of a potential conflict and board members were right to question it. Mirkay found it surprising Penn State leadership allowed a board member with even a tangential connection to the Second Mile to lead settlement negotiations.
The lawyer for the man alleging abuse in 1976 and other alleged victims strongly disagreed Penn State made little effort to verify claims.
“My 13 clients were HEAVILY vetted,” attorney Slade McLaughlin wrote in an email. “I think Penn State played it smart in resolving the cases and getting them into their rearview mirror as soon as possible.”
Only one was convicted of real crimes. Two plead guilty because research demonstrated how tainted the jury pool was and they made the mistake of trusting that the OAG would keep their deal of no jail time.
Wishing you had done more is not, nor ever has been, a crime or even a moral failing.
“My 13 clients were HEAVILY vetted,” attorney Slade McLaughlin wrote in an email. “I think Penn State played it smart in resolving the cases and getting them into their rearview mirror as soon as possible.”
Millions of reasons why he would say that.
This board sorely needed another 18 page thread of people arguing about Sandusky and what MM actually saw. thank God.
A
anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
Pretty sure you could have skipped over it. But since you didn’t AND felt the need to chime in how about you go juggle a choad?
When the females athletes at MSU refer to Nassar as the crotch doctor...that strategy will not end well for MSU.
It's great to have another JZ thread. This way everything that was said in the last 100
JZ threads can be repeated here.
WITH. THE. BENEFIT. OF. HINDSIGHT.
you know, listening to Zig's podcast reminds me of what a great criminal genius Joe Paterno was
first, he covers up all these sex crimes committed by Jerry for 40 years
then, when asked by investigators about Mike McQueary's allegations, Joe pulls the brilliant unprecedented movie of vaguely confirming Mike's story to the OAG so they can secure charges against Sandusky
then while practically on his death bed, he manages to tell a vague lie about his knowledge and role in Sandusky's crimes, which contradicts some vague emails from 1998
and all this time never telling any witnesses to remain silent.
CRIMINAL. MASTERMIND.
I've skipped over them just about everyday for the past 8 years. I can only take so much without commenting. I'm sure this one will be the one that breaks the case though.
Well, I know a way you can help fix the problem... stop posting on JZ threads. But I'm guessing you can't help yourself.
And I'm curious..though different cases of course...what ultimately may be a "better" strategy. Of course the Sandusky Travesty came out first...and had a blood thirsty media and GP that wanted to tear everyone down...and...Joe Paterno was a name that was put out there with no one but family associated with the school to defend him.
Will be very interesting how MSU draws out...though the payout will be staggering as much for the number of victims as anything...it really...at least IMO has not drawn the same attention...what MSU will end up paying...AND how blatant MSU administrators were in sweeping Nassar under the rug...with much more examples of coverup...does not come close to Penn State and IMO some bad judgement calls ...not meant to cover anything up...just made bad decisions...
MSU...covered things up and that is more than clear...
Things are not going well for MSU.
Brooke Lemmen, a colleague of Nassar's at MSU SportsMEDICINE, resigned in January 2017 following a series of controversial actions.
Lemmen was interviewed by then-MSU Title IX coordinator Kristine Moore as an expert, not a witness, in the 2014 Title IX investigation into Nassar. The Lansing State Journal reported that Lemmen, as well as other experts interviewed for the investigation, were chosen based on Nassar's recommendation despite the personal relationships with him.
Lemmen also removed some of Nassar's patient files from the university at his request in September 2016.
According to a police report obtained by Michigan Radio, Nassar asked Lemmen to give him charts that could help identify a "Jane Doe" who had filed a federal lawsuit against him.
Lemmen had second thoughts about removing the records and called MSU Health Administrator Susan Dolby to talk before she was supposed to give them to Nassar. Dolby convinced Lemmen to return the records, and Lemmen secured them in a locked cage at MSU and tipped off police about the situation.
Lemmen was interviewed by police in her office a week later, Michigan Radio reports. In the interview, Lemmen described a close friendship with Nassar and expressed a sentiment that the women filing complaints against him might be just misunderstanding his treatments.
“There is this accusation and it’s hard,” Lemmen told police, according to Michigan Radio. “This is a friend that is going through a crappy time. If he is guilty that is bad. We all sin. Some sins might be felt to be worse than others. I’m not that judge. I am still a friend... (Nassar) is one of those people that I tell him I love him."
Shortly after interviewing Lemmen, police interviewed Jeffrey Kovan, then-director of MSU Sports Medicine.
Koven said he first heard about the accusations against Nassar in 2014 when then-Dean of the College of Osteopathic Medicine William Strampel put Nassar on temporary suspension.
Kovan said "we were livid" when MSU fired Nassar in 2016, and at the time they were learning about the protocols put in place for Nassar following the 2014 investigation.
Strampel now faces four charges in court, in part because of his failure to enforce or supervise those protocols. Other charges relate to allegations of sexual misconduct. Strampel was arraigned March 27 and awaits a preliminary exam.
According to Michigan Radio, the police report states Kovan said he was unsure if Nassar did anything wrong.
“Kovan stated that Nassar is a good person with a good core, who believes people are good," according to the report. "Kovan stated the procedure and the things Nassar stated Nassar was doing were intended for the right reasons. ... Kovan stated Nassar is too good of a person, with the right intentions, to end up in prison.”
Nassar is currently serving a 60-year sentence in an Arizona federal prison for child pornography-related charges. Nassar has also been sentenced to 40 to 175 years in Ingham County and 40 to 125 years in Eaton County on first degree criminal sexual conduct charges.
Both Lemmen and Kovan are defendants in some civil suits against Nassar and MSU. Kovan still works for MSU.
Michy - would you cut the effn sh!t already - seriously are you that much of a sheep ????!!!!
JUST STOP
Please take this opportunity to remember that larry nassar is a graduate of the university of michigan.
Not that anyone, of course, wanted another case like this.
But the MSU case does provide a "control situation" --- what if a University went down a different path vs. our own BoT's path.
Will provide some evidence (of sorts) in terms of a judgment on our own BoT.
And started his career in sports medicine courtesy of Bo Schembechler. #BoKnows
michigan and michigan state should both be shut down. Make Central Michigan University the state's flagship university.
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