OT: Hunting Hitler

[toobadface]

I'm extremely curious to know the thoughts of folks on this board regarding the "Hunting Hitler" program on the History Channel. Typically, I'm very skeptical of so-called "reality shows" but with this one, I'm having a hard time blowing it off. The fact that there is no concrete forensic evidence that the dead guy in the bunker was Hitler (according to the program the skull that was alleged to be Hiltler's was proven to be that of a woman), and there is a mountain of declassified files indicating the possibility of Hitler's survival beyond WW2, my mind is open to the possibility that he may have somehow escaped the Allied Forces at the end of WW2. While I'd sleep better at night knowing that the son of bitch died a dishonorable death at his own hands, it does not seem a stretch to think that he would have had an intricate underground, international escape network. The fact that this piece of shit was willing to force 14 year old children onto the battlefield of a war that was already lost indicates to me that he had considered every possible means to save his own ass. In other words, the motivation of a true, dedicated coward, can never be underestimated.

As a disclaimer, I'm not an expert on WW2 history, or anything else for that matter. That said, I'm interested enough in the topic to try to continue to educate myself. Any opinions and/or ridicule is welcome and appreciated. Thank you folks, Merry Christmas!!

Steve

 

[psu00]

I'm extremely curious to know the thoughts of folks on this board regarding the "Hunting Hitler" program on the History Channel. Typically, I'm very skeptical of so-called "reality shows" but with this one, I'm having a hard time blowing it off. The fact that there is no concrete forensic evidence that the dead guy in the bunker was Hitler (according to the program the skull that was alleged to be Hiltler's was proven to be that of a woman), and there is a mountain of declassified files indicating the possibility of Hitler's survival beyond WW2, my mind is open to the possibility that he may have somehow escaped the Allied Forces at the end of WW2. While I'd sleep better at night knowing that the son of bitch died a dishonorable death at his own hands, it does not seem a stretch to think that he would have had an intricate underground, international escape network. The fact that this piece of shit was willing to force 14 year old children onto the battlefield of a war that was already lost indicates to me that he had considered every possible means to save his own ass. In other words, the motivation of a true, dedicated coward, can never be underestimated.

As a disclaimer, I'm not an expert on WW2 history, or anything else for that matter. That said, I'm interested enough in the topic to try to continue to educate myself. Any opinions and/or ridicule is welcome and appreciated. Thank you folks, Merry Christmas!!

Steve

I've watched it and been intrigued as well with what they've found and the declassified documents which point out certain things in detail which were often confirmed when they went to look at them in person. I'm a bit of a history buff so it caught my attention when I saw the program started.

That said, while they've found a lot of corroborating info and interesting stuff in Spain, Berlin, the Canary Islands and Argentina, all of it is mostly anecdotal or circumstantial when it comes to any real proof about Hitler. Lots of interesting and promising theories but no smoking gun. The fact the Russians just butchered the Hitler remains 'chain of evidence' over decades doesn't help matters either.

I missed the episode today but will track it down this week. I'd like to see what else they find. The theories are interesting but at this late stage I really doubt they'll ever find any smoking gun 1 way or another. The fact that the FBI was pretty much convinced (or highly suspicious) that he got away and tracked rumors/ witnesses for years is interesting and really adds to the mystery.

 

[toobadface]

psu00...I think we're on the same page here. My gut leans to the historical account but the fact that there is no conclusive, scientific evidence of his demise gives me pause. According to the show, there is no DNA evidence to prove that Hitler was killed by the Allies; however, maybe the show's facts are bullshit. I have no idea. If they are bullshit though, then the stated credentials of the investigators must also be bullshit which is a challenge that I'm certainly not willing to stand behind.

 

[psu00]

psu00...I think we're on the same page here. My gut leans to the historical account but the fact that there is no conclusive, scientific evidence of his demise gives me pause. According to the show, there is no DNA evidence to prove that Hitler was killed by the Allies; however, maybe the show's facts are bullshit. I have no idea. If they are bullshit though, then the stated credentials of the investigators must also be bullshit which is a challenge that I'm certainly not willing to stand behind.

It's been a while since I've revisited the last days of Hitler and the following events so I'm going only from memory here. The story is he took cyanide and shot himself with Eva Braun just doing cyanide. Bodies were then wrapped in a carpet and burned just outside the bunker in the chancellory garden area. That bunker is now inaccessible under a parking lot by a preschool after German reunification and the significant 'makeover' of Berlin that followed (I've actually been in that parking lot). This lines up with the show.

The Russians controlled that area during the war. The chain of evidence regarding the remains IIRC was very shaky. Several different stories over the years. Everything from remains taken straight to Moscow to the remains being buried under a garage in East Germany in what was a former Russian or Stasi base (IIRC). They were then supposedly dug up in the 70s/80s and sent to Moscow. What remains the Russians now claim are Hitlers (a skull apparently) is likely questionable at best which makes the female DNA aspect interesting but of questionable significance. Too bad Eva Braun's only living relative didn't consent to DNA testing for corroboration.

 

[JoeLion]

I agree someone needs to steal her toothbrush to get the DNA!

 

[royboy]

Where would the cable channels be without?
Home Improvements
Hitler
Alaska

 

[Ranger Dan]

I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, and don't want to watch a show that amounts to a snipe hunt for viewers. If there was evidence of Hitler, or Bigfoot, or ghosts, they it would be on the 6:00 news and not on some cable channel at midnight.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, and don't want to watch a show that amounts to a snipe hunt for viewers. If there was evidence of Hitler, or Bigfoot, or ghosts, they it would be on the 6:00 news and not on some cable channel at midnight.

This is more or less how I feel.

With that said, I don't exactly trust the news media.

 

[BBG65]

Not buying it. I believe he died by his own hand just as history has said all along. Now, many of the Nazis did hide in various South American countries and there's some interesting story lines there.

 

[NittPicker]

It's been an interesting show and there is a very slim chance those guys are onto something but as has been stated above, they'll need to produce real facts to make a case. As it is now they look at one old photograph and accept it as proof of something they want to be true. And I'm also suspicious of programs which create drama. A couple examples... First (and this one makes me laugh), two guys are out looking for evidence or conducting interviews when they see or hear something they feel helps prove what they want to be true. They then look at each other, nod their heads and roll their eyes. Come on guys, leave the bad acting to the professionals. Second, recall the isolated house 40 miles from nowhere which is only accessible via a boat?? I found the place on Google maps and today a highway runs very nearby the property. The guys on the show use a boat to get there and act like they're trying to land at Omaha Beach on D-Day. If they want to trespass they can make it very easy - have someone drive you to the property then get out and walk down over the hill. Don't believe me?? Check the link.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-40.7150758,-71.700295,695m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

With that in mind I'll keep watching but I don't expect anything to be proven. It'll still be better than watching the latest high jinks of our politicians.

 

[Cletus11]

he would have to be dead now or be about the oldest person on the planet, so although it would be interesting to know, does it matter. We know the Russians were a bunch of liers back then so even if they did cover something up, it doesn't matter at this point in history.

 

[Obliviax]

I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, and don't want to watch a show that amounts to a snipe hunt for viewers. If there was evidence of Hitler, or Bigfoot, or ghosts, they it would be on the 6:00 news and not on some cable channel at midnight.

Yeah...well...I've seen how the 6:00 news reported on Paterno and others. Lets just say I don't share your confidence.

 

[Obliviax]

I've been watching it on and off. While there is no proof of Hitler's demise, their "proof" is flimsy at best. They have a 90 something year old lady who delivered food to the house and was told it was Hitler by someone, but she never saw him. Underground tunnel? Lots of reasons for that that can have nothing to do with Hitler.

Clearly the "evidence" that Hitler killed himself at the bunker is tainted, at best but its the best we've got. I enjoyed the series and there are some interesting aspects to the show, but hardly any solid evidence that Hitler lived there.

 

[kgilbert78]

(I've actually been in that parking lot). This lines up with the show..

So have I....

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

I've been watching it on and off. While there is no proof of Hitler's demise, their "proof" is flimsy at best. They have a 90 something year old lady who delivered food to the house and was told it was Hitler by someone, but she never saw him. Underground tunnel? Lots of reasons for that that can have nothing to do with Hitler.

Clearly the "evidence" that Hitler killed himself at the bunker is tainted, at best but its the best we've got. I enjoyed the series and there are some interesting aspects to the show, but hardly any solid evidence that Hitler lived there.

Exactly!

The show, as neat as it is, has more in common with Animal Planet's "Finding Bigfoot" or your garden variety Geraldo Rivera exposition than anything else.

 

[Still in State College]

I think South Park summed this up best:

 

[Marshall30]

Exactly!

The show, as neat as it is, has more in common with Animal Planet's "Finding Bigfoot" or your garden variety Geraldo Rivera exposition than anything else.

Yes, this is a nonsense show.

 

[JJTopp99]

I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, and don't want to watch a show that amounts to a snipe hunt for viewers. If there was evidence of Hitler, or Bigfoot, or ghosts, they it would be on the 6:00 news and not on some cable channel at midnight.

Tens of thousands of Americans are charged with (and many convicted of) "conspiracy to commit" (insert crime here) every year but you aren't a believer in conspiracy theories? Right, got it.

 

[Tweedbear]

Much of the history was over dramatized. During the Peron years Argentina was very pro German.
Uboats were consistently resupplied from ships in Argentinian waters. Large post war German community. Many war criminals relocated there.

CIA helped relocate Nazis as reward for post war anticommunist intelligence activities.
Also large German immigration after WWI which gave Base for WWII activities.

 

[kgilbert78]

CIA helped relocate Nazis as reward for post war anticommunist intelligence activities.
Also large German immigration after WWI which gave Base for WWII activities.

There's *always* been a large German immigration. Considerable amounts of Germans came over before WW I.

 

[Michael.Felli]

I don't know about Hitler, but the moon landing was staged and Area 54 contains an alien.

 

[Michael.Felli]

I'm extremely curious to know the thoughts of folks on this board regarding the "Hunting Hitler" program on the History Channel. Typically, I'm very skeptical of so-called "reality shows" but with this one, I'm having a hard time blowing it off. The fact that there is no concrete forensic evidence that the dead guy in the bunker was Hitler (according to the program the skull that was alleged to be Hiltler's was proven to be that of a woman), and there is a mountain of declassified files indicating the possibility of Hitler's survival beyond WW2, my mind is open to the possibility that he may have somehow escaped the Allied Forces at the end of WW2. While I'd sleep better at night knowing that the son of bitch died a dishonorable death at his own hands, it does not seem a stretch to think that he would have had an intricate underground, international escape network. The fact that this piece of shit was willing to force 14 year old children onto the battlefield of a war that was already lost indicates to me that he had considered every possible means to save his own ass. In other words, the motivation of a true, dedicated coward, can never be underestimated.

As a disclaimer, I'm not an expert on WW2 history, or anything else for that matter. That said, I'm interested enough in the topic to try to continue to educate myself. Any opinions and/or ridicule is welcome and appreciated. Thank you folks, Merry Christmas!!

Steve

 

[Ranger Dan]

Yeah...well...I've seen how the 6:00 news reported on Paterno and others. Lets just say I don't share your confidence.

The fact that the press couldn't report their version of the truth soon enough is proof of my argument... Sure, the press back in 1945 wanted to report Hitler was dead, and would have been reluctant to change their story. If Hitler was alive decades afterwards, however, there would be new/different press/news people jumping on the opportunity to get that scoop.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Tens of thousands of Americans are charged with (and many convicted of) "conspiracy to commit" (insert crime here) every year but you aren't a believer in conspiracy theories? Right, got it.

A conspiracy and conspiracy theories are two different things.

 

[Obliviax]

The fact that the press couldn't report their version of the truth soon enough is proof of my argument... Sure, the press back in 1945 wanted to report Hitler was dead, and would have been reluctant to change their story. If Hitler was alive decades afterwards, however, there would be new/different press/news people jumping on the opportunity to get that scoop.

Hitler was reported dead because the Soviets said so...this is hardly a "free press" or a press of any kind. Shocked that you don't get that. The fact is, without access to Soviet records, there wasn't any way to prove Hitlers demise so the press had nothing to go on. As such, the "Hitler shot himself" narrative was, and had to be, accepted (having said that, there has always been stories undermining that narrative and there is no evidence to prove it's true). Finally, we have access to Soviet, East German and, even, unclassified US documents. Perhaps you didn't see the show, it does unearth a ton of US Intel and FBI reports that show the US didn't accept the Soviet story.

Again, that't not to say that Hitler lived after WW2. I agree that Hitler probably died during the Soviet invasion in some fashion. But there is little evidence to form ANY conclusions. While over the top, I have found the show to be "interesting" and thought provoking....but the evidence they've shown isn't conclusive at all; just thought provoking.

 

[Judge Smails]

Read the book "Grey Wolf: The Hunt for Adolf Hitler" by Dunstan and Williams. Great book. $14 on Amazon. There is a mountain of evidence pointing to Hitler's survival after the war.



In 1952, Dwight D. Eisenhower said: "We have been unable to unearth one bit of tangible evidence of Hitler's death. Many people believe that Hitler escaped from Berlin." When President Truman asked Josefh Stalin at the Potsdam conference in 1945 whether or not Hitler was dead, Stalin replied bluntly, 'No.' Stalin's top army officer, Marshall Gregory Zhukov, whose troops were the ones to occupy Berlin, flatly stated after a long thorough investigation in 1945: "We have found no corpse that could be Hitler's." The chief of the U.S. trial counsel at Nuremberg, Thomas J. Dodd, said: "No one can say he is dead." Major General Floyd Parks, who was commanding general of the U.S. sector in Berlin, stated for publication that he had been present when Marshall Zhukov described his entrance to Berlin, and Zhukov stated he believed Hitler might have escaped. Lt. Gen. Bedell Smith, Chief of Staff to Gen. Eisenhower in the European invasion and later Director of the CIA, stated publicly on Oct. 12, 1945, "No human being can say conclusively that Hitler is dead." Col. W.J. Heimlich, former Chief, United States Intelligence, at Berlin, stated for publication that he was in charge of determining what had happened to Hitler and after a thorough investigation his report was: "There was no evidence beyond that of HEARSAY to support the THEORY of Hitler's suicide." He also stated, "On the basis of present evidence, no insurance company in America would pay a claim on Adolf Hitler." Nuremberg judge Michael Mussmanno said in his book "Ten Days to Die," "Russia must accept much of the blame [to the extent that it still exists] that Hitler did not die in May 1945." However, Mussmanno STATED that he interviewed Hitler's personal waiter, his valet, his chauffeur, his two secretaries, pilots, top generals, etc., and they all 'agreed' perfectly that Hitler committed suicide.

-The Gestapo chief Heinrich Müller told his US CIC interrogators in 1948, that he arranged Hitler's escape from Berlin and that Hitler together with Eva Braun flew to Barcelona, Spain on April 26th, 1945.

-Soviet Marshall J. Stalin in 1945 told many Allied Leaders that Hitler escaped from Berlin.
-There never was an identifiable corpse of Adolf Hitler nor of Eva Braun.
-The whole suicide story of Hitler rests solely on the testimony of four loyal Nazis.
-The Russians found the buried (and un-burned) corpse of the double of Adolf Hitler near the bunker.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Hitler was reported dead because the Soviets said so...this is hardly a "free press" or a press of any kind. Shocked that you don't get that. The fact is, without access to Soviet records, there wasn't any way to prove Hitlers demise so the press had nothing to go on. As such, the "Hitler shot himself" narrative was, and had to be, accepted (having said that, there has always been stories undermining that narrative and there is no evidence to prove it's true). Finally, we have access to Soviet, East German and, even, unclassified US documents. Perhaps you didn't see the show, it does unearth a ton of US Intel and FBI reports that show the US didn't accept the Soviet story.

Again, that't not to say that Hitler lived after WW2. I agree that Hitler probably died during the Soviet invasion in some fashion. But there is little evidence to form ANY conclusions. While over the top, I have found the show to be "interesting" and thought provoking....but the evidence they've shown isn't conclusive at all; just thought provoking.

No, I never saw the show. My original response was a way of saying that I never watch any of these bigfoot hunt shows. Of course Hitler could have lived, if there was any real evidence then it would be on the news, not on some TV show.

 

[Judge Smails]

No, I never saw the show. My original response was a way of saying that I never watch any of these bigfoot hunt shows. Of course Hitler could have lived, if there was any real evidence then it would be on the news, not on some TV show.

Ah yes, "news" shows only broadcast 100% verifiable facts. If a middle aged man with impeccable hair who is paid multiple millions from a huge corporation doesn't read it from a script on his teleprompter, it isn't true.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Read my response to Obli above. I'm saying that the desire for the "news" to break the story would ensure that it was publicized. What would any of the new outlets have to lose by publishing information about Hitler surviving the end of WWII? I can tell you that they would gain notoriety and acclaim. When you look at a story, consider who has something to gain and who has something to lose.

Of course, governments who may have been involved with Hitler's survival would have lots to lose, but that's not what we are talking about.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Ah! Geraldo opens Al Capone's vault. The humiliation and ridicule he received was so very well deserved and was a very just dessert!

 

[artsandletters]

I'm extremely curious to know the thoughts of folks on this board regarding the "Hunting Hitler" program on the History Channel. Typically, I'm very skeptical of so-called "reality shows" but with this one, I'm having a hard time blowing it off. The fact that there is no concrete forensic evidence that the dead guy in the bunker was Hitler (according to the program the skull that was alleged to be Hiltler's was proven to be that of a woman), and there is a mountain of declassified files indicating the possibility of Hitler's survival beyond WW2, my mind is open to the possibility that he may have somehow escaped the Allied Forces at the end of WW2. While I'd sleep better at night knowing that the son of bitch died a dishonorable death at his own hands, it does not seem a stretch to think that he would have had an intricate underground, international escape network. The fact that this piece of shit was willing to force 14 year old children onto the battlefield of a war that was already lost indicates to me that he had considered every possible means to save his own ass. In other words, the motivation of a true, dedicated coward, can never be underestimated.

As a disclaimer, I'm not an expert on WW2 history, or anything else for that matter. That said, I'm interested enough in the topic to try to continue to educate myself. Any opinions and/or ridicule is welcome and appreciated. Thank you folks, Merry Christmas!!

Steve

I hear that the ghost of Hitler is trying to distance himself from Trump.

 

[Judge Smails]

Read my response to Obli above. I'm saying that the desire for the "news" to break the story would ensure that it was publicized. What would any of the new outlets have to lose by publishing information about Hitler surviving the end of WWII? I can tell you that they would gain notoriety and acclaim. When you look at a story, consider who has something to gain and who has something to lose.

Of course, governments who may have been involved with Hitler's survival would have lots to lose, but that's not what we are talking about.

There is a knowledge filter at work in this country that any facts that go against the accepted history or story are caught in this filter and not disseminated.

 

[jabba2]

Dont think its possible. Hitler was getting ill at the time of his death with parkisons and possible other illnesses. His time was short even if Germany hung on in the war.

 

[Obliviax]

No, I never saw the show. My original response was a way of saying that I never watch any of these bigfoot hunt shows. Of course Hitler could have lived, if there was any real evidence then it would be on the news, not on some TV show.

you know, it took Drudge to unearth the Monica Lewinsky issue...it was the national enquierer to end Edward's run for president when they published that he had a lover and love child.

Both of these were known by the MSM, and this is just recently. Kennedy was ushering in gals by the truckload for him and his brothers. MSM only lets you know what they want you to know. Why aren't these paterno issues being printed? Three years ago, a picture of Joe with JS got you 100m hits, today, they are worth nothing.

Press is as bad as the politicians....just slightly different.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Dont think its possible. Hitler was getting ill at the time of his death with parkisons and possible other illnesses. His time was short even if Germany hung on in the war.

According to Amazon's The Man in the High Castle, he was still firmly in charge!

 

[Art]

Read the book "Grey Wolf: The Hunt for Adolf Hitler" by Dunstan and Williams. Great book. $14 on Amazon. There is a mountain of evidence pointing to Hitler's survival after the war.



In 1952, Dwight D. Eisenhower said: "We have been unable to unearth one bit of tangible evidence of Hitler's death. Many people believe that Hitler escaped from Berlin." When President Truman asked Josefh Stalin at the Potsdam conference in 1945 whether or not Hitler was dead, Stalin replied bluntly, 'No.' Stalin's top army officer, Marshall Gregory Zhukov, whose troops were the ones to occupy Berlin, flatly stated after a long thorough investigation in 1945: "We have found no corpse that could be Hitler's." The chief of the U.S. trial counsel at Nuremberg, Thomas J. Dodd, said: "No one can say he is dead." Major General Floyd Parks, who was commanding general of the U.S. sector in Berlin, stated for publication that he had been present when Marshall Zhukov described his entrance to Berlin, and Zhukov stated he believed Hitler might have escaped. Lt. Gen. Bedell Smith, Chief of Staff to Gen. Eisenhower in the European invasion and later Director of the CIA, stated publicly on Oct. 12, 1945, "No human being can say conclusively that Hitler is dead." Col. W.J. Heimlich, former Chief, United States Intelligence, at Berlin, stated for publication that he was in charge of determining what had happened to Hitler and after a thorough investigation his report was: "There was no evidence beyond that of HEARSAY to support the THEORY of Hitler's suicide." He also stated, "On the basis of present evidence, no insurance company in America would pay a claim on Adolf Hitler." Nuremberg judge Michael Mussmanno said in his book "Ten Days to Die," "Russia must accept much of the blame [to the extent that it still exists] that Hitler did not die in May 1945." However, Mussmanno STATED that he interviewed Hitler's personal waiter, his valet, his chauffeur, his two secretaries, pilots, top generals, etc., and they all 'agreed' perfectly that Hitler committed suicide.

-The Gestapo chief Heinrich Müller told his US CIC interrogators in 1948, that he arranged Hitler's escape from Berlin and that Hitler together with Eva Braun flew to Barcelona, Spain on April 26th, 1945.

-Soviet Marshall J. Stalin in 1945 told many Allied Leaders that Hitler escaped from Berlin.
-There never was an identifiable corpse of Adolf Hitler nor of Eva Braun.
-The whole suicide story of Hitler rests solely on the testimony of four loyal Nazis.
-The Russians found the buried (and un-burned) corpse of the double of Adolf Hitler near the bunker.

Little problem here: "Gestapo" Muller disappeared in April/May 1945 and was never seen or heard from since.

 

[spydersabich]

I found Hitler in England



(sorry, don't know how to link any other way)

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

According to Amazon's The Man in the High Castle, he was still firmly in charge!

Not in the book.(spoiler alert):



......

......







He was alive, but he was incapacitated by syph.

Bormann was in charge.

And then.....





He dies....

Setting things in motion.

 

[Cletus11]

I don't think it is that crazy to think Hitler had an escape plan. He obviously had the $$$ to put in place as elaborate of a system as humanly possible at the time. To think that a day or two before Berlin fell that he went through some underground tunnels out of Berlin and made his way to the coast where a boat picked him up and took him abroad is realistic. He is dead now, so not sure other than good dinner conversation what it matters.

 

[elvis63]

It was aliens.

I kind of don't care because it doesn't really change anything. We won the war.