OT: Is there an established protocol for civilians during the National Anthem?

[Class of 67]

What do you do? I may not recall correctly, but it seems to me that hand over heart has become a practice over the past few decades. I recall standing at attention in my younger years with arms at sides. Certainly hats should be removed. In school we were taught to place hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. Since 9/11, some/all MLB teams play Good Bless America in a later inning. It now seems to be a secondary anthem, with most people removing caps and placing hand over heart. I'm not aware of anything official for the latter. I have mixed feelings about "two anthems," particularly a religious centric one.

Edit: Subsequently found the following from the American Legion. Nothing about "God Bless America."http://legionstuff.blogspot.com/2011/11/proper-protocol-for-allegiance-natl.html

 

[Nitt1300]

Hat off, hand over heart

veterans can choose to salute the flag rather than put hand over heart

 

[Nitt1300]

http://www.ehow.com/about_6304399_protocol-flag-during-national-anthem_.html

 

[Class of 67]

http://www.ehow.com/about_6304399_protocol-flag-during-national-anthem_.html

"All U.S. citizens, whether military or civilian, are expected to stand and salute when the national anthem is played." ALL citizens. Really!

 

[Nitt1300]

"All U.S. citizens, whether military or civilian, are expected to stand and salute when the national anthem is played." Really!

yep-
non veterans- hat off, hand over heart

veterans can choose to salute the flag rather than put hand over heart

 

[hagberg]

When I was on active duty (USMC), if we were in civvies and the National anthem played, we simply faced the flag and stood at attention. I do the same now that I'm retired.

 

[Peetz Pool Boy]

Apparently it's okay to talk on your cell phone if under the age 30

 

[Ranger Dan]

No there is no protocol for civilians. This is a free country, and people can choose how they want to react to or show respect for the national anthem.

 

[artsandletters]

When I was on active duty (USMC), if we were in civvies and the National anthem played, we simply faced the flag and stood at attention. I do the same now that I'm retired.

I stand still (impatiently I admit). When it's over I say Play Ball. Can't help it, just comes out and I'm sure that's common.

 

[Royal_Coaster]

What's the proper protocol when you're watching the Olympics at home with your ass on the couch or in the recliner and they play the Star Spangled Banner?

 

[NittPicker]

No there is no protocol for civilians. This is a free country, and people can choose how they want to react to or show respect for the national anthem.

If I'm at an event I stand at attention with my arms at my side. Gabby Douglas has been taking online heat for the past couple days for doing the same thing while on the Olympic podium. It's sad how the patriotism Nazis have been trying to dictate how to show respect for the flag and anthem. I'm going to keep my arms at my side. Arrest me.

 

[Ranger Dan]

If I'm at an event I stand at attention with my arms at my side. Gabby Douglas has been taking online heat for the past couple days for doing the same thing while on the Olympic podium. It's sad how the patriotism Nazis have been trying to dictate how to show respect for the flag and anthem. I'm going to keep my arms at my side. Arrest me.

I'll match my patriotism and love of country with anyone, but someone else deciding how you should act is wrong and is the opposite of free speech. Of course, this free speech doesn't protect you from criticism... it only means that you are legally (within reason) allowed to say what you want without being arrested or otherwise face punishment for saying it. If someone wants to flip the bird, put one fist in the air, blow bubblegum bubbles, laugh, cry, or blow their nose during the national anthem we are all allowed to form our own opinion of it. I have no idea what Gabby Douglass did or didn't do, but I think I can tell the difference between someone intentionally disrespecting the the national anthem and someone who just got caught up in the moment or whatever. Again, its my opinion, and it's only potential impact is whether I buy products endorsed by this person. That is my form of free speech (not really the same though).

 

[Nitt1300]

No there is no protocol for civilians. This is a free country, and people can choose how they want to react to or show respect for the national anthem.

There is a protocol. That isn't the same as saying it's required by law. No one is getting arrested for being a dick while the anthem is playing.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Apparently, there are some who believe that their biggest obligation is to yell "O" as loud as they can when the time comes.

Seriously, we need not argue about protocol until that thing right there is run out of town.

 

[lionroar88]

It is in the US Code, while not a strict law where you are committing a crime, it is a standard that you should, but do not have to, follow.

Male veterans and active duty military not in uniform should remove their headdress and place their right hand over their heart - or remove their headdress and salute (which I find rather odd looking) - or leave their headdress in place and salute.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

 

[psu1969a]

What do you do? I may not recall correctly, but it seems to me that hand over heart has become a practice over the past few decades. I recall standing at attention in my younger years with arms at sides. Certainly hats should be removed. In school we were taught to place hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. Since 9/11, some/all MLB teams play Good Bless America in a later inning. It now seems to be a secondary anthem, with most people removing caps and placing hand over heart. I'm not aware of anything official for the latter. I have mixed feelings about "two anthems," particularly a religious centric one.

Edit: Subsequently found the following from the American Legion. Nothing about "God Bless America."http://legionstuff.blogspot.com/2011/11/proper-protocol-for-allegiance-natl.html

See the following page 8.
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf

 

[jjsocrates]

Hat off, hand over heart

veterans can choose to salute the flag rather than put hand over heart

Hand over heart is for the Pledge of Allegiance. Not for the national anthem. People often confuse the two.

 

[Nitt1300]

Hand over heart is for the Pledge of Allegiance. Not for the national anthem. People often confuse the two.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7235926_salute-flag-during-national-anthem.html

or

Section 301(b)(1) of title 36, United States Code, is amended by
striking subparagraphs (A) through (C) and inserting the following new
subparagraphs:
``(A) individuals in uniform should give the
military salute at the first note of the anthem and
maintain that position until the last note;
``(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who
are present but not in uniform may render the military
salute in the manner provided for individuals in
uniform; and
``(C) all other persons present should face the flag
and stand at attention with their right hand over the
heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should
remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it
at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

Note: Part (C) applies to those not in the military and non-veterans. The phrase "men not in uniform" refers to civil service uniforms like police, fire fighters, and letter carriers - non-veteran civil servants who might normally render a salute while in uniform.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

I get that the individual in question does not look like you and I. But, for instance, shouting O in the middle of the thing should be the first "crime" we take down. Don't ya think? I mean if we are being serious and not disingenuous as to our motivation for expressing "concern?"

You know what?

 

[Sandinista!]

The hand over heart thing seems like a newer thing to me. I don't remember ever having to do hand over heart when I was a kid in the 80s. Hand over heart was for the pledge and that makes sense to me. Nothing wrong with holding your hands in front of you or hands behind the back respectfully.

People are idiots if they say you are "doing it wrong" provided you are not being overtly disrespectful.

 

[simons96]

you must sing the anthem, know all the words, hand over heart, wear 17 flag pins, 18 pieces of flair, have a flag on an article of clothing, and a piece of macaroni up your butt

otherwise, you're a traitor in my eyes and deserve to be executed

 

[Lion8286]

I get that the individual in question does not look like you and I. But, for instance, shouting O in the middle of the thing should be the first "crime" we take down. Don't ya think? I mean if we are being serious and not disingenuous as to our motivation for expressing "concern?"

You know what?

View embedded media

I found it interesting that Gabby Douglas was criticized for not putting hand to heart, but Michael Phelps laughing through the national anthem wasn't.

 

[Sandinista!]

Very curious indeed. I wonder what that is all about? hmm

I found it interesting that Gabby Douglas was criticized for not putting hand to heart, but Michael Phelps laughing through the national anthem wasn't.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The hand over heart thing seems like a newer thing to me. I don't remember ever having to do hand over heart when I was a kid in the 80s. Hand over heart was for the pledge and that makes sense to me. Nothing wrong with holding your hands in front of you or hands behind the back respectfully.

People are idiots if they say you are "doing it wrong" provided you are not being overtly disrespectful.

Same people use military analogies while bragging that they've 'never had' to serve. When you call them on it they say it's 'a figure of speech' - to some, sure. Free country and all...

 

[simons96]

I found it interesting that Gabby Douglas was criticized for not putting hand to heart, but Michael Phelps laughing through the national anthem wasn't.

same mentality that produces this:

 

[simons96]

Same people use military analogies while bragging that they've 'never had' to serve. When you call them on it they say it's 'a figure of speech' - to some, sure. Free country and all...

I served. and for once I agree with Ranger Dan.

I didn't serve so people who NEVER served could tell other citizens what they MUST do during the national anthem. those people are f**king fascists, man.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I served. and for once I agree with Ranger Dan.

I didn't serve so people who NEVER served could tell other citizens what they MUST do during the national anthem. those people are f**king fascists, man.

Same brother.

 

[LionDeNittany]

I found it interesting that Gabby Douglas was criticized for not putting hand to heart, but Michael Phelps laughing through the national anthem wasn't.

I find none of this curious. It's just a made up story with the flames being fanned by Gabby and the media.

LdN

 

[Schizophrenic_MackDaddy]

What do you do? I may not recall correctly, but it seems to me that hand over heart has become a practice over the past few decades. I recall standing at attention in my younger years with arms at sides. Certainly hats should be removed. In school we were taught to place hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. Since 9/11, some/all MLB teams play Good Bless America in a later inning. It now seems to be a secondary anthem, with most people removing caps and placing hand over heart. I'm not aware of anything official for the latter. I have mixed feelings about "two anthems," particularly a religious centric one.

Edit: Subsequently found the following from the American Legion. Nothing about "God Bless America."http://legionstuff.blogspot.com/2011/11/proper-protocol-for-allegiance-natl.html

What if you're Native American, then what?

What if Roseanne Barr sings the National Anthem, then what?

 

[jjsocrates]

http://www.ehow.com/how_7235926_salute-flag-during-national-anthem.html

or

Section 301(b)(1) of title 36, United States Code, is amended by
striking subparagraphs (A) through (C) and inserting the following new
subparagraphs:
``(A) individuals in uniform should give the
military salute at the first note of the anthem and
maintain that position until the last note;
``(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who
are present but not in uniform may render the military
salute in the manner provided for individuals in
uniform; and
``(C) all other persons present should face the flag
and stand at attention with their right hand over the
heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should
remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it
at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

Note: Part (C) applies to those not in the military and non-veterans. The phrase "men not in uniform" refers to civil service uniforms like police, fire fighters, and letter carriers - non-veteran civil servants who might normally render a salute while in uniform.

That's about as complicated (and enforceable) as the dress code at an all-girls Catholic high school.

Sure, somebody wrote it down - but who's going to actually follow the rules over the custom?

Seriously though - can someone write a law or a code that tries to enforce a custom? (custom: an action or way of behaving that is usual and traditional among the people in a particular group or place)...when people start trying to enforce customs, that's when I start to get worried.

 

[Nitt1300]

That's about as complicated (and enforceable) as the dress code at an all-girls Catholic high school.

Sure, somebody wrote it down - but who's going to actually follow the rules over the custom?

Seriously though - can someone write a law or a code that tries to enforce a custom? (custom: an action or way of behaving that is usual and traditional among the people in a particular group or place)...when people start trying to enforce customs, that's when I start to get worried.

I'm not sure why this would worry anyone. We also have a flag code, and it isn't a new thing either. Nobody is getting arrested for being disrespectful, not should they be. But it is disrespectful to do some things during the anthem. I wish I was surprised at how many people didn't know the proper way to act during the anthem, but it's not surprising at all- only disappointing.

 

[Schizophrenic_MackDaddy]

I'm not sure why this would worry anyone. We also have a flag code, and it isn't a new thing either. Nobody is getting arrested for being disrespectful, not should they be. But it is disrespectful to do some things during the anthem. I wish I was surprised at how many people didn't know the proper way to act during the anthem, but it's not surprising at all- only disappointing.

If a "code of conduct" for an anthem or flag was so important, why didn't our forefathers do something about it? Give that some thought, get back to me.

 

[summitlion1]

same mentality that produces this:

View embedded media

People are always looking for a new way to be offended. If Ledecky was the most decorated Olympian in history, I'm sure she would have received the headline as well.

As for the National Anthem, both Phelps and Gabby were criticized on Twitter for their actions on the podium. Again, people always look for a new way to be offended.

 

[Nitt1300]

If a "code of conduct" for an anthem or flag was so important, why didn't our forefathers do something about it? Give that some thought, get back to me.

It's very simple. It's a free country- the code doesn't make it criminal to act like a doucebag, nor does it prohibit someone calling out such doucebaggery.

 

[simons96]

People are always looking for a new way to be offended. If Ledecky was the most decorated Olympian in history, I'm sure she would have received the headline as well.

As for the National Anthem, both Phelps and Gabby were criticized on Twitter for their actions on the podium. Again, people always look for a new way to be offended.

right because when women set world records, it isn't as important as the most decorated Olympian in history placing 2nd.

 

[summitlion1]

right because when women set world records, it isn't as important as the most decorated Olympian in history placing 2nd.

Correct

 

[psu1969a]

Hand over heart is for the Pledge of Allegiance. Not for the national anthem. People often confuse the two.

Wrong. Read the US Code.

 

[manatree]

I've never understood the purpose of playing the national anthem before sporting events. That being said, what offends me the most are those anthem singers that turn it into an operatic, showboating, look at me moment.

 

[Schizophrenic_MackDaddy]

It's very simple. It's a free country- the code doesn't make it criminal to act like a doucebag, nor does it prohibit someone calling out such doucebaggery.

How do you feel about courtrooms making you "Swear on the Bible" before taking the stand, in a US Court of Law where we have separation of Church and State? Or am I a douchebag for asking?

 

[Schizophrenic_MackDaddy]

The hand over heart thing seems like a newer thing to me. I don't remember ever having to do hand over heart when I was a kid in the 80s. Hand over heart was for the pledge and that makes sense to me. Nothing wrong with holding your hands in front of you or hands behind the back respectfully.

People are idiots if they say you are "doing it wrong" provided you are not being overtly disrespectful.