OT: Ohio State suspends fraternity activities

[Lion8286]

The Ohio State University suspended the activities of almost all of its fraternities Thursday, citing a large number of ongoing investigations into hazing and alcohol -- making it the latest US school to take action against Greek student organizations in the wake of troubling incidents.

Of the 37 fraternities that are part of the Interfraternity Council, 11 have been under investigation since the start of the school year for possible violations of the student code of conduct, Ohio State said. The majority of the cases involve "hazing and/or alcohol," a statement said.

"This is an unacceptably high number, and the university will not tolerate behavior that puts the health and safety of students at risk," read a message sent to fraternity chapter presidents by the school's director of Greek life, Ryan Lovell.

"As a result ... I am hereby suspending all social, recruitment and new member activities for Interfraternity Council chapters until further notice, effective immediately."

Ohio State said the move was not based on any specific case, but instead on the high number of investigations.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/us/ohio-state-suspends-fraternity-activities/index.html

 

[jrs1024]

Really don’t see why frats need universities to tell them what to do. Also don’t understand how universities get to protect them and not have it be a criminal issue.

 

[kgilbert78]

But do note that this may be a little disingenuous, as tOSU now has a vested interest in students living in dorms, as they now require both frosh and sophs to live in dorms and have put millions into new ones. I have no problem with them suspending the troublemakers, BTW. But there are some honest frats that will be hurt by a blanket prohibition.

 

[Pardlion]

Really don’t see why frats need universities to tell them what to do. Also don’t understand how universities get to protect them and not have it be a criminal issue.

Have what be a criminal issue? Low-level hazing where no one gets hurt? No one cares. On the other hand, police get involved in serious matters.

 

[LemonEars]

I wonder what universities will be like say 50 years from now. I predict:

1. No fraternities or sororities of any kind.
2. No football. Soccer will be the elite sport.
3. Many students will complete their degree online without ever walking on a campus.
4. No paper. Everything will be electronic.

Any other opinions?

 

[interrobang]

Maybe next they'll make underage drinking and hazing illegal. Oh wait.

 

[Lion8286]

I wonder what universities will be like say 50 years from now. I predict:

1. No fraternities or sororities of any kind.
2. No football. Soccer will be the elite sport.
3. Many students will complete their degree online without ever walking on a campus.
4. No paper. Everything will be electronic.

Any other opinions?

3 & 4 are already happening. Not much of a prediction.

 

[BobPSU92]

I thought this was just a Penn State problem.

 

[LemonEars]

3 & 4 are already happening. Not much of a prediction.

You're right. My perspective is the 1960s when I was on campus. I'd be interested in what other more current students think college life will be like in 50 years.

 

[BobPSU92]

You're right. My perspective is the 1960s when I was on campus. I'd be interested in what other more current students think college life will be like in 50 years.

Everyone gets an 'A' just for enrolling. SNOWFLAKES.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

I wonder what universities will be like say 50 years from now. I predict:

1. No fraternities or sororities of any kind.
2. No football. Soccer will be the elite sport.
3. Many students will complete their degree online without ever walking on a campus.
4. No paper. Everything will be electronic.

Any other opinions?

I’d add:
5. No alphabetic-based grades. Students will receive a “post-course status” of

High Pass or Pass with Distinction
Pass
Fail (they’ll probably also adopt a softer synonym for “fail” because it could be interpreted as being too harsh)​

 

[LemonEars]

Everyone gets an 'A' just for enrolling. SNOWFLAKES.

You are right there. I watched my two daughters as they recently went through college. Very different than my experience in the 1960s. My profs didn't care at all if they were being tough or if I had to stay up all night to complete a difficult assignment or prepare for a tough exam. My daughters had kind and gentle profs. Not nearly as much homework and much easier exams.

 

[Pardlion]

I wonder what universities will be like say 50 years from now. I predict:

1. No fraternities or sororities of any kind.
2. No football. Soccer will be the elite sport.
3. Many students will complete their degree online without ever walking on a campus.
4. No paper. Everything will be electronic.

Any other opinions?

5. No fun.

 

[Nitt1300]

as with most things, follow the money

every kid they keep out of the frats has to rent a bed and buy a meal plan from the school

punishing the innocent to maybe also get the guilty is how dictatorships work- it's not supposed to be accepted in the country formerly known as the United States of America

 

[BobPSU92]

You are right there. I watched my two daughters as they recently went through college. Very different than my experience in the 1960s. My profs didn't care at all if they were being tough or if I had to stay up all night to complete a difficult assignment or prepare for a tough exam. My daughters had kind and gentle profs. Not nearly as much homework and much easier exams.

Society has changed. The common student complaint when I was in college was that each professor assigned work as though the students were taking no other courses but their own. They didn't care what else you had on your plate. Each course had a minimum requirement to get a certain grade. You either fulfilled it or you didn't. It's called work.

 

[Nitt1300]

Society has changed. The common student complaint when I was in college was that each professor assigned work as though the students were taking no other courses but their own. They didn't care what else you had on your plate. Each course had a minimum requirement to get a certain grade. You either fulfilled it or you didn't. It's called work.

work? you can't ask these precious flowers to work- what do you think "illegal aliens" are for?

 

[LemonEars]

Society has changed. The common student complaint when I was in college was that each professor assigned work as though the students were taking no other courses but their own. They didn't care what else you had on your plate. Each course had a minimum requirement to get a certain grade. You either fulfilled it or you didn't. It's called work.

Yep. That is exactly the way it was taking engineering in the 1960s at PSU. Each professor thought that he could load you up and all your time outside of class was his. I remember impossible take home exams in one course at the same time another professor assigned 15 hours of homework. I guess the pressure prepared us well for work life.

 

[lionfan83]

You are right there. I watched my two daughters as they recently went through college. Very different than my experience in the 1960s. My profs didn't care at all if they were being tough or if I had to stay up all night to complete a difficult assignment or prepare for a tough exam. My daughters had kind and gentle profs. Not nearly as much homework and much easier exams.

You started that family pretty late, if your daughters recently finished college & you went in the ‘60s.

 

[84Lion]

That is exactly the way it was taking engineering in the 1960s at PSU. Each professor thought that he could load you up and all your time outside of class was his. I remember impossible take home exams in one course at the same time another professor assigned 15 hours of homework. I guess the pressure prepared us well for work life.

It was that way in the 1980s when I got an engineering degree. I remember when I graduated and started my job with a large company which did work in my major (aerospace engineering), going to work felt like a vacation to me...and it's not like my days weren't filled with all kinds of things to do, and learn, at my job. I still like to regale my wife and kids (when they'll listen) that at that time, the degree for AE required only a few credits less than pre-med. My grades weren't spectacular by any means but I was proud to have graduated.

 

[jrs1024]

We’ll research is primary and teaching is secondary anymore. That’s probably a big difference. And if you piss off students, aka customers, it hurts your long term internal political prospects.

Also, i know some kids that graduated within the last year or so from UF, and apparently the vast majority of classes are online and in class where you can choose which venue you prefer. Lectures posted online. There’s really almost no need to set foot on campus.

It makes you wonder if these giant institutions and infrastructure are becoming outdated. If you can get all the classes online, living there is just a paid party (another reason why universities have softened their stance on catering to students). If the nonsense US News and World Report rankings go away, what differentiates any school from another other than on campus experience (which is again just like being on a cruise ship for 4 years with a part time job)?

I’d also add separately that generationally, when millennials become parents you are more likely to hear “i got to do xyz” rather than the current mantra of “i had to do xyz”. Again, another reason to kiss student rear end.

 

[LemonEars]

You started that family pretty late, if your daughters recently finished college & you went in the ‘60s.

Actually they started college late! One worked as a registered nurse for about 15 years before going back for her nursing degree.

 

[lurkerlion]

Bricks and mortar are becoming unnecessary for 2 reasons. Online schooling is growing exponentially and college degrees are no longer a requirement for a career, especially in tech. Bill Gates and his ilk argue that college is a waste of time where innovation is not necessarily encouraged.

Universities know this and compete for every student they can. Beyond that they also try to retain all students which means that courses can't be too impossible like the old days.

I don't know about PSU, but I hear that many colleges don't even have Friday afternoon classes because it is inconvenient for students who want to go home or begin partying early.

 

[BobPSU92]

work? you can't ask these precious flowers to work- what do you think "illegal aliens" are for?

 

[MontereyLion]

Who here remembers going to Saturday classes? When did that stop? I remember going to Saturday class and then heading on out to catch the afternoon football game. Stadium held 57,000 back in the 70s.

 

[LemonEars]

Who here remembers going to Saturday classes? When did that stop? I remember going to Saturday class and then heading on out to catch the afternoon football game. Stadium held 57,000 back in the 70s.

Saturday classes were the norm in the 1960s. Don't they have Saturday classes anymore?

 

[gogolion]

I’d add:
5. No alphabetic-based grades. Students will receive a “post-course status” of

High Pass or Pass with Distinction
Pass
Fail (they’ll probably also adopt a softer synonym for “fail” because it could be interpreted as being too harsh)​

I actually went to a school that had a grading system similar to this. Worcester Polytechnic Institute had a 3 grade system. AD (Acceptable with Distinction), AC (Acceptable) or NR (No Record). NR, meant you failed and there would be no record of the course on your academic record. If you flunked all your classes it was known as a snowflake because your report card would be all white (blank, because no record of any courses). Midway through my 4 years they changed to a 4 grade system (A, B, C or NR). Actually I think there was a grandfather clause and you could choose between the 2 grading systems. It was an interesting system.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

I actually went to a school that had a grading system similar to this. Worcester Polytechnic Institute had a 3 grade system. AD (Acceptable with Distinction), AC (Acceptable) or NR (No Record). NR, meant you failed and there would be no record of the course on your academic record. If you flunked all your classes it was known as a snowflake because your report card would be all white (blank, because no record of any courses). Midway through my 4 years they changed to a 4 grade system (A, B, C or NR). Actually I think there was a grandfather clause and you could choose between the 2 grading systems. It was an interesting system.

Interesting. I really like the "Acceptable with Distinction"....

 

[zwick19050]

I thought this was just a Penn State problem.

You thought it was just a PSU BOT problem and the DA was out to get you.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I thought this was just a Penn State problem.

The problem is a national problem, and stems from a combination of: (1) the fact that federal legislation (and its threat of withholding federal highway funds) forced every state to raise the minimum legal drinking age to 21; and (2) court rulings that have effectively put the responsibility for policing underage drinking on colleges, universities, and fraternities.

Colleges, universities and national fraternities spend millions each year on alcohol awareness training but, inevitably, college kids are gonna drink, a number of them are gonna drink irresponsibly, and a few are gonna get hurt or even killed. Which means millions more spent on insurance, litigation and damage awards.

I can at least understand putting some of that responsibility on fraternities; they are social organizations first and foremost, and should be expected to make a serious attempt to educate their younger members about managing alcohol use. But colleges and universities should not have that responsibility dumped in their laps. That is poor public policy..

 

[Woodpecker]

Fail (they’ll probably also adopt a softer synonym for “fail” because it could be interpreted as being too harsh)

Achievment Status Suboptimal

 

[Big 0]

We’ll research is primary and teaching is secondary anymore. That’s probably a big difference. And if you piss off students, aka customers, it hurts your long term internal political prospects.

Also, i know some kids that graduated within the last year or so from UF, and apparently the vast majority of classes are online and in class where you can choose which venue you prefer. Lectures posted online. There’s really almost no need to set foot on campus.

It makes you wonder if these giant institutions and infrastructure are becoming outdated. If you can get all the classes online, living there is just a paid party (another reason why universities have softened their stance on catering to students). If the nonsense US News and World Report rankings go away, what differentiates any school from another other than on campus experience (which is again just like being on a cruise ship for 4 years with a part time job)?

I’d also add separately that generationally, when millennials become parents you are more likely to hear “i got to do xyz” rather than the current mantra of “i had to do xyz”. Again, another reason to kiss student rear end.

My daughter graduated from UF in 2011 and took maybe 2 online courses the whole time, but those were her humanities type requirements. Since she was a NucE major, there were basically no online classes in her major. I believe she may have had maybe one online course in grad school (received her doctorate in NucE from GA Tech in 2015). I will qualify that her lack of online courses was likely due to her placing out of many freshman level courses, which helped her to graduate in 4 years in a 5 year degree program, saving me lots of money. IMO, it depends upon ones major whether one can take primarily online courses. I don’t think you would want your physician to have graduated from a medical school where all classes were online.

 

[WestSideLion]

I’d add:
5. No alphabetic-based grades. Students will receive a “post-course status” of

High Pass or Pass with Distinction
Pass
Fail (they’ll probably also adopt a softer synonym for “fail” because it could be interpreted as being too harsh)​

That’s what the grades were like when I was at Columbia Business School, except we had Low Pass, of shock too many got you into trouble with the Dean’s office.

 

[dailybuck77]

OSU like most universities is infected with political correctness simpletons. What really got me was that about 3 years ago the band director was fired because of comparatively minor off campus harassment involving band members. The director had absolutely no involvement in anything dealing with the incident. The university claimed that he had allowed a bad climate to develop within the band.

It didn't matter at all that he was a world class band director of arguably the best marching band in the US.

 

[kijanacat]

OSU like most universities is infected with political correctness simpletons. What really got me was that about 3 years ago the band director was fired because of comparatively minor off campus harassment involving band members. The director had absolutely no involvement in anything dealing with the incident. The university claimed that he had allowed a bad climate to develop within the band.

It didn't matter at all that he was a world class band director of arguably the best marching band in the US.

Really, since the school has the ability to determine that students live in dorms, then the school has a conflict of interest in telling students where they can and can't live. Therefore, their function should be merely to advise, not regulate.
As some have said, it is time for the frats to get away from university sanction and go on their own.

 

[demlion]

I wonder what universities will be like say 50 years from now. I predict:

1. No fraternities or sororities of any kind.
2. No football. Soccer will be the elite sport.
3. Many students will complete their degree online without ever walking on a campus.
4. No paper. Everything will be electronic.

Any other opinions?

My wife got an associate's degree from psu in 04, and her bachelor's in 08 from Rutgers. Never stepped on either campus until she went to a psu game with me.

The bricks and mortar deal is not a growth area for education.

 

[kgilbert78]

OSU like most universities is infected with political correctness simpletons. What really got me was that about 3 years ago the band director was fired because of comparatively minor off campus harassment involving band members. The director had absolutely no involvement in anything dealing with the incident. The university claimed that he had allowed a bad climate to develop within the band.

It didn't matter at all that he was a world class band director of arguably the best marching band in the US.

There were other issues there--that's just the one that made the news. The main prob;em was insubordination--if you read the tOSU documents on his firing (note--I live in Columbus, so I'm a little more familiar with the case than some on these boards). And some of the stuff was on campus--during band camp and the like.

 

[dailybuck77]

KG: Could you please summarize the insubordination with a link? In matters such as this, that is quite often a made up justification to paper over the real reasons for a firing. Here is a link that summarizes some of the things that happened at OSU. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/05/ohio-state-sexual-director-fired_n_5649531.html The behavior is gross and childish, but not firing worthy unless he was told to stop it and didn't. He should have been given a chance to clean it up. Almost surely that behavior had been going on for at least 50 years.

 

[kgilbert78]

KG: Could you please summarize the insubordination with a link? In matters such as this, that is quite often a made up justification to paper over the real reasons for a firing. Here is a link that summarizes some of the things that happened at OSU. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/05/ohio-state-sexual-director-fired_n_5649531.html The behavior is gross and childish, but not firing worthy unless he was told to stop it and didn't. He should have been given a chance to clean it up. Almost surely that behavior had been going on for at least 50 years.

Go look up the tOSU report. Should be somewhere on their site.

As I noted, the press focused on the sexual stuff.

However (and its been awhile), I seem to recall he had an issue (perhaps with the press--and not about this topic) and tOSU told him to leave it alone. He didn't.

 

[LafayetteBear]

There were other issues there--that's just the one that made the news. The main prob;em was insubordination--if you read the tOSU documents on his firing (note--I live in Columbus, so I'm a little more familiar with the case than some on these boards). And some of the stuff was on campus--during band camp and the like.

kg: Your reference to "band camp" pretty much required this post...