ADVERTISEMENT

OT: PGA's Bryson DeChambeau is awfully slow.........

katchthis

katchthis

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2004
22,396
7,456
1
Each shot timed versus his playing partner. I have no problem with guys taking their time, but
they should be prepping for their shot while waiting for the next player to hit. JB Holmes is really a
killer in this regard. Jack and Tiger are supposedly on the slower side of average, but no one would
take umbrage with those two greats. PGA really needs to have some enforced policy for slow play.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/br...1ZWGq7mZ0iXdfmbPsZeSZmz5na4FsKC-uoEhLvSUBDgsI
 
a) They didn't time him correctly. It doesn't matter when you mark your ball, the clock starts when your fellow competitors are out of the way and it's clear for you to putt. I like the idea of this article, but when you write the below, it's clear you don't know what you're doing or you were just looking to sensationalize how long golf takes to play:

'As such, he often had a generous amount of prep that wasn't clocked (we didn't time him during Reavie's setup and shot). Even with the asterisk, DeChambeau's average time of 43.57 seconds is more nuanced than the number conveys.'

b) Why do people care how fast PGA tour players play? You're lying to yourself if you think speeding up PGA tour pros will speed up your Saturday afternoon round
 
  • Like
Reactions: MaconNitt
I was taught golf by an old-time who was absolutely religious about golf etiquette. I mean, the whole nine yards. He hated, hated Jack Nicklaus for ruining golf in terms of play. He'd rail at Jack for pacing off a 100 yard shot rather than trusting his eyes or yardage book. It's one thing to do it on the back nine of the final round of the US Open when within a few shots of the lead. It is another to do it on the front nine on Friday at the Rocket Mortgage Classic. PGA has rivaled the NCAA in terms of being impotent. They need to start to grow a pair in terms of slow play AND equipment.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PSUTENN1
Obliviax said:
I was taught golf by an old-time who was absolutely religious about golf etiquette. I mean, the whole nine yards. He hated, hated Jack Nicklaus for ruining golf in terms of play. He'd rail at Jack for pacing off a 100 yard shot rather than trusting his eyes or yardage book. It's one thing to do it on the back nine of the final round of the US Open when within a few shots of the lead. It is another to do it on the front nine on Friday. PGA has rivaled the NCAA in terms of being impotent. They need to start to grow a pair in terms of slow play AND equipment.
Click to expand...
Equipment is ruining golf. When it was built, back in the mid 60s, Spyglass was a really hard course. Equipment has made it a putt putt, for the pros
 
MontereyLion said:
Equipment is ruining golf. When it was built, back in the mid 60s, Spyglass was a really hard course. Equipment has made it a putt putt, for the pros
Click to expand...

I agree somewhat. But after seeing 320 yard drives, I think viewership would drop way off for 260 yard drives except for a few "purists" who would probably watch anyway.
 
katchthis said:
I agree somewhat. But after seeing 320 yard drives, I think viewership would drop way off for 260 yard drives except for a few "purists" who would probably watch anyway.
Click to expand...
IDK...how can you tell the distance of a drive on TV? In person, at least the events I've attended, unless you are directly behind the player you have no idea where the ball went. I often hear the gallery hoot "nice drive" on a drive that was clearly 50 yards left of right of the target.

I recall Jack being asked about John Daley as he was a couple of holes away from winning the open. "he plays a game of which I am unfamiliar". Brandle Chamblee often talks about this. If you can drive over the fairway bunker and land 160 yards from the pin behind a lake it is a lot different than having to be between two fairway bunkers and having to hit over the lake and stop it on the green from 195. The strategy today is to bomb a driver 325 over the bunker and loft a wedge onto the green. If its a tight landing area, his your 265 3 wood and use an 8 iron.

The strategy of the game is minimal today. It used to be, in the old days, you'd get on the tee and spend some time balancing the game situation aggressiveness versus risk. That included weather and how you were hitting the ball. On your second shot, you balanced lie with pin location. Today, these athletes combined with the equipment simply blast the drive past the fairway dangers and then hit a short iron regardless of pin location.
 
Obliviax said:
IDK...how can you tell the distance of a drive on TV? In person, at least the events I've attended, unless you are directly behind the player you have no idea where the ball went. I often hear the gallery hoot "nice drive" on a drive that was clearly 50 yards left of right of the target.

I recall Jack being asked about John Daley as he was a couple of holes away from winning the open. "he plays a game of which I am unfamiliar". Brandle Chamblee often talks about this. If you can drive over the fairway bunker and land 160 yards from the pin behind a lake it is a lot different than having to be between two fairway bunkers and having to hit over the lake and stop it on the green from 195. The strategy today is to bomb a driver 325 over the bunker and loft a wedge onto the green. If its a tight landing area, his your 265 3 wood and use an 8 iron.

The strategy of the game is minimal today. It used to be, in the old days, you'd get on the tee and spend some time balancing the game situation aggressiveness versus risk. That included weather and how you were hitting the ball. On your second shot, you balanced lie with pin location. Today, these athletes combined with the equipment simply blast the drive past the fairway dangers and then hit a short iron regardless of pin location.
Click to expand...
Still a lot of strategy, but the strategy has changed. Every golfer should read "Every Shot Counts". The author reviewed all the Shot LInk data for over ten years on the tour. Mark Broadie helped developed more meaningful statistics now used on Tour.

https://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2014/5/every-shot-counts
 
katchthis said:
Each shot timed versus his playing partner. I have no problem with guys taking their time, but
they should be prepping for their shot while waiting for the next player to hit. JB Holmes is really a
killer in this regard. Jack and Tiger are supposedly on the slower side of average, but no one would
take umbrage with those two greats. PGA really needs to have some enforced policy for slow play.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/br...1ZWGq7mZ0iXdfmbPsZeSZmz5na4FsKC-uoEhLvSUBDgsI
Click to expand...
Almost nothing worse than a slow golfer. They ruin the game for me. You want to spend your time golfing not waiting on every shot.
 
Obliviax said:
It's one thing to do it on the back nine of the final round of the US Open when within a few shots of the lead. It is another to do it on the front nine on Friday at the Rocket Mortgage Classic.
Click to expand...

I understand where you're coming from and I definitely support the cause of playing faster. However, to play devil's advocate, I spent a lot of time in the scoring area at the BMW Championship last week and a lot of time there at the Wyndham Championship last year and when the difference between getting your card or getting into the Tour Championship is 1 measly shot, you're not gonna break your concentration just to save 20 seconds. So that blowing off a 2nd shot at Rocket just because it's Friday could end up coming back to cost you when you really need it. I'm sure Kevin Tway or JT Poston (both players who missed out on the Tour Championship by a shot) wishes they hadn't half-assed a shot on Thursday at Genesis or early Saturday morning at Honda.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obliviax
CDLionFL said:
I understand where you're coming from and I definitely support the cause of playing faster. However, to play devil's advocate, I spent a lot of time in the scoring area at the BMW Championship last week and a lot of time there at the Wyndham Championship last year and when the difference between getting your card or getting into the Tour Championship is 1 measly shot, you're not gonna break your concentration just to save 20 seconds. So that blowing off a 2nd shot at Rocket just because it's Friday could end up coming back to cost you when you really need it. I'm sure Kevin Tway or JT Poston (both players who missed out on the Tour Championship by a shot) wishes they hadn't half-assed a shot on Thursday at Genesis or early Saturday morning at Honda.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It is a hard thing to know or administer. But, in the end, the players have to police each other. Some stuff is just outrageous
 
MontereyLion said:
The course record was 67 at Spyglass for years and years. Then Phil and Luke Donald (Luke Donald!!) shot 62 to tie for the record. The juiced ball is hurting golf.
Click to expand...
I used to go to Kiawah and play their courses. And while I am a crappy golfer, I LOVED the strategy.

  • Cougar Point was the first course and was designed by Gary Player. Player was not a "long" player but was really talented. So, of course, his track was short with crap you needed to avoid everywhere. This included lots of water, trees in the middle of the course, and small/hilly greens. You needed every club in your bag and that included teeing off on a par 3 with a five iron.
  • Turtle Point is a Nicklaus design. Like his game, it is long with open fairways and big greens. He was the power player of his generation with great skills around the greens.
  • The famed Ocean Course is on the ocean. So you get a constant 25mph wind off the water. If you can't spin it into the wind, you are screwed. I have a natural fade and landed several drives on the left side of the fairway only to see the fade and wind drive the ball across the entire fairway and into the right rough. There are a couple of holes the other direction that require you to fade it into the wind.

The joy was playing these three tracks with totally different requirements. The worst golfer on Cougar Point was the best golfer on Turtle Point. Today, I fear, a 300 yard driver would just blast it past all of that and play the same game course in and course out.
 
MontereyLion said:
The course record was 67 at Spyglass for years and years. Then Phil and Luke Donald (Luke Donald!!) shot 62 to tie for the record. The juiced ball is hurting golf.
Click to expand...

No, making people play persimmon woods and balata balls would kill golf. Allowing amateurs to hit better shots with better equipment has actually saved golf
 
cjrugger said:
No, making people play persimmon woods and balata balls would kill golf. Allowing amateurs to hit better shots with better equipment has actually saved golf
Click to expand...
Aluminum and wooden bats. No reason why the PGA can't regulate some level of equipment performance for tour events regardless of what is available to amateurs. I mean, they limit the shank on sand wedges, for example. I suspect the tour and TV makes so much on product endorsements that they don't want to threaten that income.

if the average golfer could hit the ball 300 yards, it would only mean that they are deeper in the woods, not further down the fairway
 
Obliviax said:
Aluminum and wooden bats. No reason why the PGA can't regulate some level of equipment performance for tour events regardless of what is available to amateurs. I mean, they limit the shank on sand wedges, for example. I suspect the tour and TV makes so much on product endorsements that they don't want to threaten that income.

if the average golfer could hit the ball 300 yards, it would only mean that they are deeper in the woods, not further down the fairway
Click to expand...

I’m fine with bifurcation, but as you say, almost everyone would lose a lot of money if they did it. And I’d guess the tour has figured out that viewers prefer to watch their guys hit it 315 more than 270

New club technology isn’t just about hit it farther though, it has a lot to do with off-center hits going straighter
 
cjrugger said:
I’m fine with bifurcation, but as you say, almost everyone would lose a lot of money if they did it. And I’d guess the tour has figured out that viewers prefer to watch their guys hit it 315 more than 270

New club technology isn’t just about hit it farther though, it has a lot to do with off-center hits going straighter
Click to expand...
can you really tell if someone hit it 315 or 270? I can't. I can tell you when a guy hits a five iron into a green versus a 9 iron...especially if the pin is marked in the back behind water. Also do have to factor in that today's golfers are "cut" compared to Jack and Lee Trevino.

I agree on the club weighting...I just got new pings and it knocked 8 strokes off of my handicap.

But, bottom line, is the bottom line. As long as revenues go up, we will get the same old same old.
 
cjrugger said:
No, making people play persimmon woods and balata balls would kill golf. Allowing amateurs to hit better shots with better equipment has actually saved golf
Click to expand...
The average golfer can't compress the new balls enough to take advantage of their added distance. To cater to the big hitters the courses keep getting longer and longer. It's like the pros have "magic" balls.
 
MontereyLion said:
The average golfer can't compress the new balls enough to take advantage of their added distance. To cater to the big hitters the courses keep getting longer and longer. It's like the pros have "magic" balls.
Click to expand...

You think a 15 handicap would hit a balata and a ProV1 the same distance?
 
Obliviax said:
can you really tell if someone hit it 315 or 270? I can't. I can tell you when a guy hits a five iron into a green versus a 9 iron...especially if the pin is marked in the back behind water. Also do have to factor in that today's golfers are "cut" compared to Jack and Lee Trevino.

I agree on the club weighting...I just got new pings and it knocked 8 strokes off of my handicap.

But, bottom line, is the bottom line. As long as revenues go up, we will get the same old same old.
Click to expand...

Yeah I can. Watch a PGA tour event and then watch an LPGA or Champions event
 
  • Like
Reactions: katchthis
Obliviax said:
I used to go to Kiawah and play their courses. And while I am a crappy golfer, I LOVED the strategy.

  • Cougar Point was the first course and was designed by Gary Player. Player was not a "long" player but was really talented. So, of course, his track was short with crap you needed to avoid everywhere. This included lots of water, trees in the middle of the course, and small/hilly greens. You needed every club in your bag and that included teeing off on a par 3 with a five iron.
  • Turtle Point is a Nicklaus design. Like his game, it is long with open fairways and big greens. He was the power player of his generation with great skills around the greens.
  • The famed Ocean Course is on the ocean. So you get a constant 25mph wind off the water. If you can't spin it into the wind, you are screwed. I have a natural fade and landed several drives on the left side of the fairway only to see the fade and wind drive the ball across the entire fairway and into the right rough. There are a couple of holes the other direction that require you to fade it into the wind.

The joy was playing these three tracks with totally different requirements. The worst golfer on Cougar Point was the best golfer on Turtle Point. Today, I fear, a 300 yard driver would just blast it past all of that and play the same game course in and course out.
Click to expand...


Kiawah Courses--

Out of the non-Ocean courses I'd play Osprey>Cougar>Turtle. I never like Jack's courses. Old Corkscrew outside of Ft. Myers Florida is definitely my least favorite Jack course. The Kiawah Island Public courses have gotten much better after the recent refreshes have been completed.
Have been fortunate enough to play Cassique and River Course on the Island 3-4 times each. Recently, Guest fees on these private courses have jumped up to Pebble Prices. And while they are really nice, they ain't PB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obliviax
You must log in or register to reply here.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back