OT: Scientific American on Americans perspective of wealth distribution....
- Thread starter Michael.Felli
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For those of you from Pennsylvania, is the term "Commonwealth"
becoming more associated with "wealth redistribution and equality" (I.e. the commonality of wealth) as opposed to a community seeking "common good"?
This post was edited on 3/31 1:56 PM by Peetz Pool Boy
becoming more associated with "wealth redistribution and equality" (I.e. the commonality of wealth) as opposed to a community seeking "common good"?
This post was edited on 3/31 1:56 PM by Peetz Pool Boy
the people who bltch about income equality are too lazy to...
go to that route. more fun (and way easier) to just complain.... they're just a minimum wage hike away from the big time.
go to that route. more fun (and way easier) to just complain.... they're just a minimum wage hike away from the big time.
wow you either did not read or did not understand the linked article
one of the main points is your idea of pull yourself up by your own bootstrap, work hard and make something of your self ideal (that is widely held in this country) turns out in reality to not actually bear up.........US with less social mobility than Canadia and Europenea
one of the main points is your idea of pull yourself up by your own bootstrap, work hard and make something of your self ideal (that is widely held in this country) turns out in reality to not actually bear up.........US with less social mobility than Canadia and Europenea
most of the shelves are stocked by outside vendors working on comm, the
floors are scubbed by an outside contractor, who is probably doing the work them selves, and Aldi's pays me a $quarter to bring my cart back. Wal mart will figure a way to not only not pay someone to bring the carrts back, but make money at it in the meantime!!
floors are scubbed by an outside contractor, who is probably doing the work them selves, and Aldi's pays me a $quarter to bring my cart back. Wal mart will figure a way to not only not pay someone to bring the carrts back, but make money at it in the meantime!!
and despite "stocking" the shelves, none of them know where anything
is located when you ask them about an item. Part of me thinks they're just messing with me becaipuse I'm______________.
You can fill in blank.
This post was edited on 3/31 3:43 PM by Peetz Pool Boy
is located when you ask them about an item. Part of me thinks they're just messing with me becaipuse I'm______________.
You can fill in blank.
This post was edited on 3/31 3:43 PM by Peetz Pool Boy
Several things....
Scientific American used to be at the vanguard of layman/scientific periodicals, but no more ( had a subscription from 1983-2005). About 8-10 years ago they began to become absolutely "loaded " with eco/green science that was clearly agenda driven.----Also, they site "Perspectives in PSYCHOLOGY" as a source . Psychology is one of the LEAST verifiable sciences .....Hence the word "perspectives". It is not a hard science.----Additionally, If you are unhappy with your financial position in life, make a concerted effort to work harder/better your earning position. For the vast majority of individuals, he/she is the only one who can hold themselves back from progressing. ----You own your own position.....don't blame others.
Scientific American used to be at the vanguard of layman/scientific periodicals, but no more ( had a subscription from 1983-2005). About 8-10 years ago they began to become absolutely "loaded " with eco/green science that was clearly agenda driven.----Also, they site "Perspectives in PSYCHOLOGY" as a source . Psychology is one of the LEAST verifiable sciences .....Hence the word "perspectives". It is not a hard science.----Additionally, If you are unhappy with your financial position in life, make a concerted effort to work harder/better your earning position. For the vast majority of individuals, he/she is the only one who can hold themselves back from progressing. ----You own your own position.....don't blame others.
that's not true, there are many 'jobbers' that come on site to stock and
oranize shelves. Most if not all of the cosmetics lines are done by jobbers, as are the clothes and sporting goods. My wifes company, Handleman, did all the CD's videos etc. All of her people, got way more than minium wage, a bonus, a company car, and per diem while on the road. a store manager a Wal Mart, HD, Lowes etc will make well into 6 figures. Most of them come through the ranks.
This post was edited on 3/31 3:47 PM by sluggo72
oranize shelves. Most if not all of the cosmetics lines are done by jobbers, as are the clothes and sporting goods. My wifes company, Handleman, did all the CD's videos etc. All of her people, got way more than minium wage, a bonus, a company car, and per diem while on the road. a store manager a Wal Mart, HD, Lowes etc will make well into 6 figures. Most of them come through the ranks.
This post was edited on 3/31 3:47 PM by sluggo72
Re: Several things....
This has been touched on, but let's do a hypothetical. Let's imagine that every single person works their ass off to their greatest abilities. Let's even imagine they all get accepted into Harvard and graduate with honors. Now they are out there in the job market. Will all of them get high paying jobs? Or will some of them need to flip burgers and clean toilets?
So yes, a single individual may be able to better themselves and reach the "American dream." But he leaves a hole behind that the system requires be filled. So what are you going to do about it?
This is largely bullshit. Perhaps a sole individual can change the course of their livelihood, but it does nothing to solve the larger problem. What people who prefer a capitalist system (and almost all of us do) need to accept is that the system absolutely requires that some individuals will get shit on. Unemployment is a requirement, low skill/low wage jobs are a requirement. It's up to society at large to determine how to handle those individuals.
This has been touched on, but let's do a hypothetical. Let's imagine that every single person works their ass off to their greatest abilities. Let's even imagine they all get accepted into Harvard and graduate with honors. Now they are out there in the job market. Will all of them get high paying jobs? Or will some of them need to flip burgers and clean toilets?
So yes, a single individual may be able to better themselves and reach the "American dream." But he leaves a hole behind that the system requires be filled. So what are you going to do about it?
As an economist, educated at a fine University I might add,
What people say they want and then what they do in a free market is always at odds. Sometimes even in the complete opposite direction. The articles definition of "ideal" is what the average American wants it to be. Not at all the basis for deciding what it should be. Technically the free market has, is and will decide what distribution should be. If the Government has an interest in changing this then they need to drastically change their current policy which has made income inequality worse. By taking on more services to provide the "poor" they have downgraded the quality of those services and have made it harder for mobility. They have created glass ceilings that are killing the lower and middle class. If they backed off and let the private sector educate and provide options and competition for the services of the lower and middle the class then those people would gain better human capital which would lead to more economic mobility.
Also, income inequality doesn't account for the whole pie growing from year to year. Even if 40% of the country only has .3% of the wealth if that .3% is 100% or 1000% larger than last year it is better than that percentage growing to .4% if then nominal value is a negative percentage of the nominal value of .3% in year n-1.
Basically the left can suck it.
What people say they want and then what they do in a free market is always at odds. Sometimes even in the complete opposite direction. The articles definition of "ideal" is what the average American wants it to be. Not at all the basis for deciding what it should be. Technically the free market has, is and will decide what distribution should be. If the Government has an interest in changing this then they need to drastically change their current policy which has made income inequality worse. By taking on more services to provide the "poor" they have downgraded the quality of those services and have made it harder for mobility. They have created glass ceilings that are killing the lower and middle class. If they backed off and let the private sector educate and provide options and competition for the services of the lower and middle the class then those people would gain better human capital which would lead to more economic mobility.
Also, income inequality doesn't account for the whole pie growing from year to year. Even if 40% of the country only has .3% of the wealth if that .3% is 100% or 1000% larger than last year it is better than that percentage growing to .4% if then nominal value is a negative percentage of the nominal value of .3% in year n-1.
Basically the left can suck it.
Re: Very biased article
Median CEO pay is over $10 million.
You're kind of proving the point of the Scientific American article. People just don't understand how skewed the system is.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101709473
Median CEO pay is over $10 million.
You're kind of proving the point of the Scientific American article. People just don't understand how skewed the system is.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101709473
It's much easier to just blame it on laziness....
Frankly, your viewpoint is incredibly simple minded. There are plenty of other variables to financial success:
intelligence
quality of parenting
income class of your parents
role models
race
opportunities presented to you in your youth
quality of education available
The idea that anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be financially successful is very naive.
Frankly, your viewpoint is incredibly simple minded. There are plenty of other variables to financial success:
intelligence
quality of parenting
income class of your parents
role models
race
opportunities presented to you in your youth
quality of education available
The idea that anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be financially successful is very naive.
Very few people payed attention in the 1980s when the U.S government (you know - for the people?) (Republicans and Democrats) changed the tax system which fueled income inequality. And the excuse was - job creation?? Unfortunately the jobs are overseas 
Keep in mind WHO makes the rules. The only thing that prevents a REAL revolution is that ANYONE has a chance. Well, if you are part of the really wealthy, then your chance is assured BUT for others you could win the lottery.
Many get really upset when they realize we actually live in a "feudal system". Those who get to hold a spear to guard the wall "think" one day they will get invited to sit at THE table.
I really support "working and earning" wealth. I would just rather see 1000 millionaires than 1 billionaire! PLUS unearned income should be taxed at a MUCH higher rate to truly encourage economic growth.
Witness that the turnout for the last general election was the lowest in 75 years. Most people know it is hopeless. Our "system" only works in theory NOT in reality. Free Market ??? What? Where? When?
This post was edited on 3/31 3:05 PM by dawgduice
This post was edited on 3/31 5:08 PM by dawgduice
Keep in mind WHO makes the rules. The only thing that prevents a REAL revolution is that ANYONE has a chance. Well, if you are part of the really wealthy, then your chance is assured BUT for others you could win the lottery.
Many get really upset when they realize we actually live in a "feudal system". Those who get to hold a spear to guard the wall "think" one day they will get invited to sit at THE table.
I really support "working and earning" wealth. I would just rather see 1000 millionaires than 1 billionaire! PLUS unearned income should be taxed at a MUCH higher rate to truly encourage economic growth.
Witness that the turnout for the last general election was the lowest in 75 years. Most people know it is hopeless. Our "system" only works in theory NOT in reality. Free Market ??? What? Where? When?
This post was edited on 3/31 3:05 PM by dawgduice
This post was edited on 3/31 5:08 PM by dawgduice
Re: Several things....
Reject the premise. People /jobs are not static. Most have the ability to move/adapt/think and progress. That is in large part up to the individual. Do you have more chances of success by working hard and knocking on 5 doors? How about 55 doors? How about making your own door. How about crawling through the window ? The metaphors are easy because the possibilities are nearly infinite .---The economy is not a zero sum gain. It can and will grow. Is there an end point? Likely. But we won't see it. The answer is work harder and smarter and you will ultimately ( with Rare exception) succeed. ----Now , if you require your success to be measured by Bill Gates / George Soros money .....the problem then isn't financial equality......it's that you can't be satisfied. Addictions are made of this.---- It matters what drives you.......why ,and if you are motivated
This post was edited on 3/31 6:41 PM by jimarnp
Reject the premise. People /jobs are not static. Most have the ability to move/adapt/think and progress. That is in large part up to the individual. Do you have more chances of success by working hard and knocking on 5 doors? How about 55 doors? How about making your own door. How about crawling through the window ? The metaphors are easy because the possibilities are nearly infinite .---The economy is not a zero sum gain. It can and will grow. Is there an end point? Likely. But we won't see it. The answer is work harder and smarter and you will ultimately ( with Rare exception) succeed. ----Now , if you require your success to be measured by Bill Gates / George Soros money .....the problem then isn't financial equality......it's that you can't be satisfied. Addictions are made of this.---- It matters what drives you.......why ,and if you are motivated
This post was edited on 3/31 6:41 PM by jimarnp
People probably don't deserve what they earn
The government should definitely give us what they have since they clearly don't deserve it. At least that is what the comedian that delivers my "news" says.
The government should definitely give us what they have since they clearly don't deserve it. At least that is what the comedian that delivers my "news" says.
Yeah, there's a lot of the nonsense you see when elections roll around regarding class warfare type stuff. There's no doubt some CEOs make obscene money but frankly people who are upset at that never seem to get upset when their team's NFL football/ NBA basketball/ major league baseball stars or Hollywood stars get obscene money. They are all good with that. ..... Then you get the arguments on if you want the best you have to pay the most (like when Franklin's contract came up compared to Paterno's pay for example).
The issue regarding CEOs where the system has fallen apart (IMO) is (much like at Penn State) at the board level. Too many boards want just to be a club and let a small few 'run the show' where a lot of quid pro quo happens. Companies routinely ask for shareholders to turn over voting rights to a select few. If company boards did their job a lot of this could be reigned in- but that still won't stop CEOs from making millions compared to a person who re-stocked shelves.
This post was edited on 3/31 8:10 PM by psu00
The issue regarding CEOs where the system has fallen apart (IMO) is (much like at Penn State) at the board level. Too many boards want just to be a club and let a small few 'run the show' where a lot of quid pro quo happens. Companies routinely ask for shareholders to turn over voting rights to a select few. If company boards did their job a lot of this could be reigned in- but that still won't stop CEOs from making millions compared to a person who re-stocked shelves.
This post was edited on 3/31 8:10 PM by psu00
"unearned income should be taxed at a much higher rate to truly encourage economic growth"... really!?!... do you even know what capital is? and that capital investment is sort of needed to fuel economic growth... you must be a self-described liberal, no offense.
Anyone notice how long a thread with a decidedly liberal agenda lasts on
this board while the hint of a conservative thread is gone in seconds? At some point this will drive half of BWI's costumer base away.
this board while the hint of a conservative thread is gone in seconds? At some point this will drive half of BWI's costumer base away.
Re: Anyone notice how long a thread with a decidedly liberal agenda lasts on
How is this article liberally biased???
Is it advocating redistribution of wealth or simply reporting on our misconception of wealth?
Enough of this nonsense - when people disagree with science, the first thing they do is blame politics.
How is this article liberally biased???
Is it advocating redistribution of wealth or simply reporting on our misconception of wealth?
Enough of this nonsense - when people disagree with science, the first thing they do is blame politics.
Only if you substantially qualify/narrow the definition of a CEO.
I know quite a few CEOs in the metro DC area who lucky to crack $400K. That's the nature of a small business.
If you narrow the definition of a CEO to Fortune 500 companies, you get a decidedly different result than using all those with an official title of CEO.
I know quite a few CEOs in the metro DC area who lucky to crack $400K. That's the nature of a small business.
If you narrow the definition of a CEO to Fortune 500 companies, you get a decidedly different result than using all those with an official title of CEO.
I think that qualifies as cronyism
Let's do away with food stamps or do what Clinton/Gingich did and raise the requirements so fewer people qualify and then Wal-Mart can't take advantage of such a loophole. Bigger government and more intervention creates more problems, ALWAYS. It's called disincentives and negative externalities. The Government creates situations where actors don't have to pay for their actions and the cost gets pushed off to everyone else.
Let's do away with food stamps or do what Clinton/Gingich did and raise the requirements so fewer people qualify and then Wal-Mart can't take advantage of such a loophole. Bigger government and more intervention creates more problems, ALWAYS. It's called disincentives and negative externalities. The Government creates situations where actors don't have to pay for their actions and the cost gets pushed off to everyone else.
Re: Anyone notice how long a thread with a decidedly liberal agenda lasts on
Boo effin hoo .... Go back to Indiana
Boo effin hoo .... Go back to Indiana
We are merely part of a "feudal system". No ONE on this board is RICH. Actually, those who rail against "class warfare" are hired (money and propaganda) by the wealthy to extend the "definition" of rich to include "successful" working people. IF you have to work you are NOT RICH. If your children will have to work and their children YOU ARE NOT RICH. There is no one on this board that is in that group.
Some of us that "believe" we are RICH merely get to hold the spear to guard the wall I have a friend that is a VP at Chase and he admits freely he gets to hold the spear. When there is a re-structuring he is always concerned that his "spear" will be taken away.
Please no silly reference to "capital" and how it works. It is ALL managed.
Some of us that "believe" we are RICH merely get to hold the spear to guard the wall
I have a friend that is a VP at Chase and he admits freely he gets to hold the spear. When there is a re-structuring he is always concerned that his "spear" will be taken away.Please no silly reference to "capital" and how it works. It is ALL managed.
Let's let the free market decide
People who work there aren't slaves, they choose to work there and are probably happy they aren't unemployed. Indentured servitude has been outlawed in the United States for 150 years (go figure its actually the 150th anniversary this year), please stop acting like it still exists. Creating more laws and regulation will help no one.
People who work there aren't slaves, they choose to work there and are probably happy they aren't unemployed. Indentured servitude has been outlawed in the United States for 150 years (go figure its actually the 150th anniversary this year), please stop acting like it still exists. Creating more laws and regulation will help no one.
