OT: Steven Avery/Sandusky Scandal revisited . . . why all the corruption??

[ChiTownLion]

Finally watched this. When the blood sample came back with no trace of EDTA, seemed like that was a wrap. Also, the hole in the blood vial is supposedly from injecting the blood into the vial (rather than taking it out to plant elsewhere). If I were on the jury, I'd have some serious reservations about the extended involvement of Manitowac LE in the investigation, but I'd have a hard time ruling not guilty. The victim's remains were on Avery's property, her car was on his property, his blood was in her car, the bullet with her DNA was a match with his rifle, Avery was there during the bonfire (essentially cremating her remains)... give the defense attorney credit for coming up with pretty good counter-points to most pieces of evidence, but none of those counter-points really proved anything. Anyway, jmho.

 

[N&B4PSU]

I decided to re watch Making a Murderer after listening to Ziegler's interview this afternoon.

One thing I keep coming back to is . . . how do corrupt people get away with being so corrupt? Especially in law enforcement.

I'm not sure I have ever experienced people so pathological as the people I see working in law enforcement/courtrooms in these 2 cases. Not saying our entire criminal justice system is corrupt, lots of good cops and prosecutors and judges out there, but . . . .

It seem like the depth of corruption in PA and Wisconisn runs deep. I was moved to tears watching what the detectives, the defense attorney's investigator, and even the judge did to Brenden Massey . . . how do these people stoop to such evil that they would go after a 16 yr old kid of limited intelligence who CLEARLY knows nothing about any crime committed by Steven Avery, if one was even committed. AND HE IS STILL IN PRISON!! How screwed up is our justice system? How can cops pull a kid from school and interview him for 4 hours without a parent or lawyer present? Then make sure he never sees another free day in his life after pumping him full of a confession?? Sadly, it happens A LOT, I don't understand how any decent member of law enforcement could sleep at night trampling the rights and lives of kids like that.

I also don't get how you become such a giant POS like Fina, Masser, Eckel, Peetz, Surma, Erickson, et al that you could callously ruin the lives and reputations of good men, based on obvious falsehoods, without a second thought.

Jeez, sorry just venting. these injustices drive me crazy. these people are scum that do this.

one of my happiest moments was leaving the PA Crime Commission. In just a brief stint (before returning to my beloved cesspool that is NYC) I discovered a depth of corruption that permeated the system and ... well... wreaked of raw sh!t. how sad to set up an agency to investigate corruption that, naturally, turns up one crooked pos judge and pol after another.. and is shut down for having the temerity to expose the public to the stench that is PA politics and.. lol.. criminal justice. hell, the best criminals are the ones sitting in offices and fing everybody else. may they all develop the worst neurological disease and die slow, horrible, deaths. putrid scum.

and if you ask me privately, i'll tell you what i really think of that vermin. [as much as i despised OC, these guys were far worse.]

Makes my top 3 nationwide disgust list.

 

[N&B4PSU]

as far as avery... i lean to guilty.. note i say "lean" since the "evidence" was hardly convincing. that said, i also lean to the system having turned him into whatever he became. they railroaded a young kid who was 100% innocent (not 99... 100), locked him up for 18 years, and frankly, i wouldn't be surprised if he saw the murdered woman as physically quite similar to the lying bitch who got him locked up in the first place. if he snapped, he snapped.

the aholes who put him there are the ones who belong in jail.

 

[simons96]

Finally watched this. When the blood sample came back with no trace of EDTA, seemed like that was a wrap. Also, the hole in the blood vial is supposedly from injecting the blood into the vial (rather than taking it out to plant elsewhere). If I were on the jury, I'd have some serious reservations about the extended involvement of Manitowac LE in the investigation, but I'd have a hard time ruling not guilty. The victim's remains were on Avery's property, her car was on his property, his blood was in her car, the bullet with her DNA was a match with his rifle, Avery was there during the bonfire (essentially cremating her remains)... give the defense attorney credit for coming up with pretty good counter-points to most pieces of evidence, but none of those counter-points really proved anything. Anyway, jmho.

well, the lack of EDTA has been explained in detail here: LINK

the hole in the vial wasn't as important as the evidence seal being broken

Avery's new lawyer hints at counters to the discovery of the evidence on the Avery property: LINK

 

[simons96]

as far as avery... i lean to guilty.. note i say "lean" since the "evidence" was hardly convincing. that said, i also lean to the system having turned him into whatever he became. they railroaded a young kid who was 100% innocent (not 99... 100), locked him up for 18 years, and frankly, i wouldn't be surprised if he saw the murdered woman as physically quite similar to the lying bitch who got him locked up in the first place. if he snapped, he snapped.

the aholes who put him there are the ones who belong in jail.

this is why I draw the comparison of Avery's case to Sandusky's.

I blame law enforcement and dirty prosecutors for muddying the integrity of the process, that cast doubts on any conviction

I always go back to motive, and the judge in Avery's case actually says in the documentary . . . why would you do this? you're life is going well, you're a free man, about to get a big settlement, etc . . .

 

[Black Elmo 2]

You can't apply rational thought to an irrational mind.

 

[simons96]

as far as avery... i lean to guilty.. note i say "lean" since the "evidence" was hardly convincing. that said, i also lean to the system having turned him into whatever he became. they railroaded a young kid who was 100% innocent (not 99... 100), locked him up for 18 years, and frankly, i wouldn't be surprised if he saw the murdered woman as physically quite similar to the lying bitch who got him locked up in the first place. if he snapped, he snapped.

the aholes who put him there are the ones who belong in jail.

if you recall, the original "victim" felt horrible about what happened to Avery, and they later reconciled. I don't think she lied, she was led down a path to identify Avery as her assailant by law enforcement.

I guess I really question the theory that he "snapped". his legal team had just had a successful round of depositions against the county sheriff's department in his lawsuit.

one aspect of the "avery is guilty" narrative that I find similar to the Sandusky case . . . you have to believe Avery is diabolical, manipulative, cold blooded, and meticulous in one moment . . . and utterly incompetent and careless about handling significant evidence the next moment. that, and "God" led the cousin of the victim to find the Rav4 on a lot of thousands of cars in a matter of minutes, in an area that was away from all the other vehicles.

similarly, the PSU cover up narrative requires you to believe that C/S/S/P were so crafty that they knew for decades that Sandusky was a pedophile and covered it up by . . . not discussing their conspiracy in detail via email, not threatening a witness, and reporting and incident to Sandusky's employer. oh, and they never turned on each other once charges were filed.

 

[N&B4PSU]

never was sold that avery really forgave her... looked good and right thing to do (and yes, i think she was shoved into the ID... but she went on the stand and made damned sure he got the pipe). i do think he has a lot of conniver in him and i don't think he's working with a full set of marbles. that he could physically link the 2 women would not be out of the realm of belief.. but no one has sold me that he murdered her.

not yet, anyway.

 

[simons96]

never was sold that avery really forgave her... looked good and right thing to do (and yes, i think she was shoved into the ID... but she went on the stand and made damned sure he got the pipe). i do think he has a lot of conniver in him and i don't think he's working with a full set of marbles. that he could physically link the 2 women would not be out of the realm of belief.. but no one has sold me that he murdered her.

not yet, anyway.

the farthest I will reach is to say Avery could have killed Teresa Halbach. but certainly not in the manner as described by the prosecution

 

[PSUKNOW]

the farthest I will reach is to say Avery could have killed Teresa Halbach. but certainly not in the manner as described by the prosecution

Steve Avery, Jerry Sandusky, the Mayor of Baltimore. Wow Simmons, you've really hitche'd your support wagon to a bunch of winners

 

[ChiTownLion]

Interestingly enough, Jim Clemente has 6 podcast episodes revisting the case.

Episode 6 makes a pretty strong case that officer Colburn discovered the RAV4 on Steven Avery's property, but he was there without a search warrant, so LE assembled a so-called search party to magically "discover" the car there a couple days later.

 

[simons96]

Steve Avery, Jerry Sandusky, the Mayor of Baltimore. Wow Simmons, you've really hitche'd your support wagon to a bunch of winners

I bet Avery could spell my last name right if it is POSTED RIGHT IN MY PROFILE NAME.

 

[dontgojoepa]

Even reading about all the stuff that the documentary left out (the DNA on the hood that didn't come from blood, the repeated calls to Halbach and how she was supposedly nervous of Avery, the fact that vials typically have holes, etc.), I still think there was more than sufficient reasonable doubt. The fact that the first repeated and thorough searches of his trailer and garage came up empty and the key and bullet were only found months later by the cops that were supposed to be precluded from the search, the lack of any blood in the garage or trailer, the lack of any of Halbach's DNA on the key, the note by Fassbender for the DNA analyst to "put Avery in the garage," the contaminated DNA results, and the fact that Colburn called her license plate in 2 days before the car was found. That last one - is the most suspicious to me. I just can't think of a reasonable explanation to call in Halbach's license plate, unless he was looking at the car. Even if he was given the plate number by Weigert, presumably he would've been told why he was given that plate and who it belonged to - there would be no reason to call in a plate number given to you by a colleague. And - if you could believe the cops could plant even just one piece of evidence, that should be the end of the case. The entire investigation is tainted.