OT: Underage drinking and security clearances

[TheBigUglies]

Got a qwik question and hoping the vast experience of the board will help. Does an underage drinking citation that has been expunged or will be expunged at 21 prevent someone from passing a security clearance for a job? Not a background check but a security clearance. I am guessing it is a security clearance for a company that does work for the gov't.

Thanks.

 

[Delco Lion]

Not sure this helps, but I know a young person that had a shoplifting charge expunged and now passes all FBI clearance and fingerprint checks.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Got a qwik question and hoping the vast experience of the board will help. Does an underage drinking citation that has been expunged or will be expunged at 21 prevent someone from passing a security clearance for a job? Not a background check but a security clearance. I am guessing it is a security clearance for a company that does work for the gov't.

Thanks.

I don't know for certain, but it's better to be honest about it either way. I can say that I have friends with TS clearances who work for DOJ who admitted to pot use in college.

 

[palehorse]

Got a qwik question and hoping the vast experience of the board will help. Does an underage drinking citation that has been expunged or will be expunged at 21 prevent someone from passing a security clearance for a job? Not a background check but a security clearance. I am guessing it is a security clearance for a company that does work for the gov't.

Thanks.

Should be Ok as long as he/she is honest in the interview.

 

[Bessmoney]

I got an underage my freshman year and did not have it exponged. Did not prevent me from getting a secret clearance when I worked at Booz. No idea if it would have an impact if you're going for a TS/SCI.

 

[johnmpsu]

Very unlikely to cause an issue BUT do not lie or keep the information secret. If you do, you're done. It doesn't really matter if it's expunged. If you don't tell them it will be on your mind and you will fail the poly.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Very unlikely to cause an issue BUT do not lie or keep the information secret. If you do, you're done. It doesn't really matter if it's expunged. If you don't tell them it will be on your mind and you will fail the poly.

John question for you. When I had my TS/SCI many years ago, I never had a poly. They did whatever background they did, and the FBI actually sent an agent to my home town and asked the neighbors about me. I forget if Naval Investigative Service was involved too.

Is a poly SOP now?

@TheBigUglies one thing is true in any era - never lie, expunged or no. An underage I would think is no big deal, unless you lie about it, then it's end of story.

 

[UncleRoyBiggins]

John question for you. When I had my TS/SCI many years ago, I never had a poly. They did whatever background they did, and the FBI actually sent an agent to my home town and asked the neighbors about me. I forget if Naval Investigative Service was involved too.

Is a poly SOP now?

@TheBigUglies one thing is true in any era - never lie, expunged or no. An underage I would think is no big deal, unless you lie about it, then it's end of story.

TS doesn't require a poly. SCI does however.

 

[UncleRoyBiggins]

To the OP........it's very unlikely to cause any issues with a clearance. But like other's have said here, don't hide it.

 

[johnmpsu]

John question for you. When I had my TS/SCI many years ago, I never had a poly. They did whatever background they did, and the FBI actually sent an agent to my home town and asked the neighbors about me. I forget if Naval Investigative Service was involved too.

Is a poly SOP now?

@TheBigUglies one thing is true in any era - never lie, expunged or no. An underage I would think is no big deal, unless you lie about it, then it's end of story.

I graduated in 76 and had to get a poly even back then for TS/SCI. As far as I know it's been required for a long time. They are especially awful now. I'm just glad I retired before my 5 year re-exam was coming up. I hated doing them and usually had to go back 2 or 3 times. It's especially bad since traitor Snowden.

 

[moose121]

Listen up...Don't assume that that the investigation will miss the citation (despite expungement). Don't lie...don't try to hide it. Underage drinking is very minor (only a summary offense) and will not result in a negative adjudicative decision no matter what level of clearance as long as you are honest. List it on your security application and be forthcoming about the details during your security interview. You will be applying for a "position of trust" and lying on the application will be a big problem..as in how can uncle sam trust you with information about the national security if you can't be trusted to tell the truth about something as minor as this.

 

[PSU87]

I got this one.....
For a security clearance, 2 things are red flags
1. Financial problems. They don't want someone who might sell secrets. Gambling problems, drug problems, extremely high debt burdens. Not to say bad credit, but if you've got half a million in debt and you make $30k a year.....
2. Things you can be blackmailed with. An affair your wife doesn't know about, things like that.

Your underage drinking citation won't matter a tinkers damn.

 

[hereforthebeer]

I got this one.....
For a security clearance, 2 things are red flags
1. Financial problems. They don't want someone who might sell secrets. Gambling problems, drug problems, extremely high debt burdens. Not to say bad credit, but if you've got half a million in debt and you make $30k a year.....
2. Things you can be blackmailed with. An affair your wife doesn't know about, things like that.

Your underage drinking citation won't matter a tinkers damn.

Confirmed. It usually only has an effect if it were recent. Putting some maturation time between such an incident and the investigation is also helpful. It is also bad if it is part of a pattern. If not, kids will be kids.

 

[johnmpsu]

When I got my first TS/SCI if you had done weed at any time in the past you were toast. That has changed as they now have trouble finding anybody that hasn't. If you were and still are a habitual user you won't pass. Any other type of drug and you're toast. At least that was true when I left a couple of years ago. If you want a job that requires TS/SCI stay out of any trouble. The system depends on the honesty of the people. They take it VERY seriously. You will also be required to turn over just about every financial detail about your life. You will also have to get re-polyed at least every five years or more. I almost got put on a contract that would require a poly every two weeks. I would have quit before doing that.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

I had an underage freshman year. Got a ts/Sci a few years later. They didn't care one bit out the underage. This was in 2001. I can't stress this enough, they absolutely didn't give a shit. They were worried about foreign travel, foreign contacts, etc. Just list it on the application and move on.

 

[PSU Soupy]

Got a qwik question and hoping the vast experience of the board will help. Does an underage drinking citation that has been expunged or will be expunged at 21 prevent someone from passing a security clearance for a job? Not a background check but a security clearance. I am guessing it is a security clearance for a company that does work for the gov't.

Thanks.

I know a guy who spent a few days in jail, and also had a pot conviction overturned and he will most likely be the head of PSU BOT if it makes you feel better.

 

[dwiz]

Very unlikely to cause an issue BUT do not lie or keep the information secret. If you do, you're done. It doesn't really matter if it's expunged. If you don't tell them it will be on your mind and you will fail the poly.

Unless you're Mark Dambly.

Edit: aw man. This joke is already an antique.

 

[Rhino80]

I had and underage and got a TS/SCI , just be honest

 

[dbaguy]

I only had a confidential clearance I think - it was done by OPM with an interview
and I had access to economically sensitive data. As many here have written
honesty is the best policy; it didn't hurt me.

TS=top secret; SCI=?

 

[johnmpsu]

I only had a confidential clearance I think - it was done by OPM with an interview
and I had access to economically sensitive data. As many here have written
honesty is the best policy; it didn't hurt me.

TS=top secret; SCI=?

SCI = Special Compartmented Information

 

[LafayetteBear]

Don't tell 'em you like Russian babes who croon "Moose and Squirrel" while plying you with Wodka.

 

[demlion]

Should be Ok as long as he/she is honest in the interview.

I have a friend "John," who is retired Navy. When we were in college together, he was a heavy smoker, yet he hated tobacco, if you follow me. Many years later, to everyone's surprise, including his own, he is up for a promotion which requires a security clearance. He was advised by his friends to tell the truth to the NIS. "If you smoked weed, for example, just admit it."

In the interview they ask him about his time in college. Did he ever smoke pot? "Yes, I did."

How many times? John thinks about this for a little longer than he should have, and says, "About 2000."

Then NIS investigators are enlisted; John is an officer, so they have to refer to him as "Mr______" The guy says, Mr. ______, that is gonna be a problem. John starts to say something else, and the NIS guy says, " Mr. _______, don't say anything else. I'm gonna put you down for 2."

 

[Metal Mike]

I may be out of date as I retired 4 years ago but one note from my experience is that there is TS/SCI and TS/SCI with lifestyle poly. I had TS/SCI but never required the lifestyle poly.

I worked with a woman who administered the poly and she told me that one guy admitted to having sex with a horse. She said the entire staff could not stop laughing when they shared the results.

 

[cment]

I had two underage drinking citations and also got busted for making fake ID's when I was a freshman in college (class 1 Misdemeanor that got reduced). I was honest and had no problem with DOD clearances.

 

[Colorado Man]

Got a qwik question and hoping the vast experience of the board will help. Does an underage drinking citation that has been expunged or will be expunged at 21 prevent someone from passing a security clearance for a job? Not a background check but a security clearance. I am guessing it is a security clearance for a company that does work for the gov't.

Thanks.

I have had security clearances with the DOE. Arrest records for the previous 7 years must be reported. Expunged arrest records must be reported.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I worked with a woman who administered the poly and she told me that one guy admitted to having sex with a horse. .

MM: Great story. It obligates me to post the following GIF. Of course, this GIF is pretty much de rigueur in ANY thread.

 

[OaktonDave]

Got a qwik question and hoping the vast experience of the board will help. Does an underage drinking citation that has been expunged or will be expunged at 21 prevent someone from passing a security clearance for a job? Not a background check but a security clearance. I am guessing it is a security clearance for a company that does work for the gov't.

Thanks.

It's not an issue if you're up front about it. If you lie about it, you've given them reason to question your integrity. Many people did things in their youth that they grew out of shortly after graduating from college. I'm as guilty as anyone in that regard. The person who is a few years out of school and is still living like he did in college will struggle to get a security clearance.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I don't know for certain, but it's better to be honest about it either way. I can say that I have friends with TS clearances who work for DOJ who admitted to pot use in college.

This is exactly what I was gonna post. Midnighter is right.

 

[demlion]

I had a friend from psu who flunked out when we were juniors. He sort of drifted off to Florida, and eventually ended up living on the street. Before long he joined the military. (I'm keeping it brief as I can.)

25 years later, having worked through the ranks, got his degree and become an officer, he is up for the promotion to the grade in which he will probably end his career. But he needs a security clearance. Enlisted men government investigators ask him if he's ever smoked dope. He's been counseled by his buddies to be truthful, because lying is worse than smoking dope or other misdemeanor shit, right?

So after he says,"Yes," the guy says "How many times would you say, sir?"

He thinks for a second and says, "about 2,000."

Long uncomfortable silence. Then the guy says, "Sir, that is going to be a problem. Tell you what. I'll put you down for 2."

Got the promotion! Hope this helps.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

I had a friend from psu who flunked out when we were juniors. He sort of drifted off to Florida, and eventually ended up living on the street. Before long he joined the military. (I'm keeping it brief as I can.)

25 years later, having worked through the ranks, got his degree and become an officer, he is up for the promotion to the grade in which he will probably end his career. But he needs a security clearance. Enlisted men government investigators ask him if he's ever smoked dope. He's been counseled by his buddies to be truthful, because lying is worse than smoking dope or other misdemeanor shit, right?

So after he says,"Yes," the guy says "How many times would you say, sir?"

He thinks for a second and says, "about 2,000."

Long uncomfortable silence. Then the guy says, "Sir, that is going to be a problem. Tell you what. I'll put you down for 2."

Got the promotion! Hope this helps.

same story as last year

 

[demlion]

same story as last year

I've always wondered if it was bullshit. Sounds too pat. Otoh, this guy got in more trouble telling the truth when we were in college than most people do by lying.

 

[demlion]

same story as last year

So, the old memory is holding up? Yayyy!

 

[Ranger Dan]

I have a friend who had a brother who had a clearance because he was involved with cleaning or repairing nuclear reactors. When he first applied for the job/clearance, he lied about smoking pot when younger. He had to redo the clearance process and must have forgot that he previously lied and this time said he had smoked pot when younger. He lost his clearance, and therefore his job, not because he smoked pot in his youth, but because he lied about it.

 

[nittanyfan333]

I just had my 5 year periodic. Whoever said about things that you can be blackmailed with and things you can be bought with is spot on. Money trouble, serious legal trouble (like if you zach smith'd a lady), undeclared international travel, and lying about anything they can uncover. Had a buddy at my first duty station that married a chinese national he met at Mizzou. took a bit longer, but he eventually got his clearance. I've traveled A LOT for leisure and not claimed it to my SSO (i know i know... bad NF333.... BAD) but as long as I had the dates and was honest about my contact with foreign nationals and what my itinerary was, my investigator didn't care at all.

also, whoever said that poly's are required for SCIs, that's false. I've had a TS//SCI for 15 years, multiple SUB-G's and been part of numerous SAPs. I've NEVER had a poly (lifestyle or CI). As to what requires a poly, I have no idea, all I know is pray for a CI and not a lifestyle.

 

[johnmpsu]

I just had my 5 year periodic. Whoever said about things that you can be blackmailed with and things you can be bought with is spot on. Money trouble, serious legal trouble (like if you zach smith'd a lady), undeclared international travel, and lying about anything they can uncover. Had a buddy at my first duty station that married a chinese national he met at Mizzou. took a bit longer, but he eventually got his clearance. I've traveled A LOT for leisure and not claimed it to my SSO (i know i know... bad NF333.... BAD) but as long as I had the dates and was honest about my contact with foreign nationals and what my itinerary was, my investigator didn't care at all.

also, whoever said that poly's are required for SCIs, that's false. I've had a TS//SCI for 15 years, multiple SUB-G's and been part of numerous SAPs. I've NEVER had a poly (lifestyle or CI). As to what requires a poly, I have no idea, all I know is pray for a CI and not a lifestyle.

Just curious, were you military? I'm pretty sure some of the rules are different for military and civilian and of course the agency. Where I was everybody was polyed every 5 years, at least. I almost ended up on a project that would have required a poly every 2 weeks. I would have quit. I know they stopped doing lifestyle polys for re-exams but I don't know if they have eliminated them all together. Retired now so out of the loop. Everything got way more crazy after Snowden.

 

[nittanyfan333]

I just had my 5 year periodic. Whoever said about things that you can be blackmailed with and things you can be bought with is spot on. Money trouble, serious legal trouble (like if you zach smith'd a lady), undeclared international travel, and lying about anything they can uncover. Had a buddy at my first duty station that married a chinese national he met at Mizzou. took a bit longer, but he eventually got his clearance. I've traveled A LOT for leisure and not claimed it to my SSO (i know i know... bad NF333.... BAD) but as long as I had the dates and was honest about my contact with foreign nationals and what my itinerary was, my investigator didn't care at all.

also, whoever said that poly's are required for SCIs, that's false. I've had a TS//SCI for 15 years, multiple SUB-G's and been part of numerous SAPs. I've NEVER had a poly (lifestyle or CI). As to what requires a poly, I have no idea, all I know is pray for a CI and not a lifestyle.

Just curious, were you military? I'm pretty sure some of the rules are different for military and civilian and of course the agency. Where I was everybody was polyed every 5 years, at least. I almost ended up on a project that would have required a poly every 2 weeks. I would have quit. I know they stopped doing lifestyle polys for re-exams but I don't know if they have eliminated them all together. Retired now so out of the loop. Everything got way more crazy after Snowden.

I was military for 7 years, Been a contractor for the past 10 so obviously PS (post Snowden). They very well could have placed requirements for polys on things since him, however if they didn’t do it after Ana montes, Robert Hanssen, Robert james Nicholson and the like, I don’t know why Snowden would trigger that. Maybe you just got the luck of the draw with specific jobs that required polys. Sorry, but I don’t envy you with that.

 

[Woodpecker]

My conclusion after reading this thread: our security is dependent on a lot of young (but financially secure), honest drunks

 

[Nitt1300]

My conclusion after reading this thread: our security is dependent on a lot of young (but financially secure), honest drunks

back in my day, if the Navy had taken clearances away from all the drunks, I doubt they could have sent many ships to sea

drugs were a no no, but booze was no big deal as long as you were sober when it was time to get underway

 

[massimoManca II]

I may be out of date as I retired 4 years ago but one note from my experience is that there is TS/SCI and TS/SCI with lifestyle poly. I had TS/SCI but never required the lifestyle poly.

I worked with a woman who administered the poly and she told me that one guy admitted to having sex with a horse. She said the entire staff could not stop laughing when they shared the results.

OMG I hope it was a female horse*

 

[Nashville Lion]

Got a qwik question and hoping the vast experience of the board will help. Does an underage drinking citation that has been expunged or will be expunged at 21 prevent someone from passing a security clearance for a job? Not a background check but a security clearance. I am guessing it is a security clearance for a company that does work for the gov't.

Thanks.

First of all...remember this. Most agencies except for a few...FBI, USSS, etc contract out their background checks to OPM who in turn contracts out most of the work to contract agencies who do the background interviews, reports, etc.
Once the information is gathered it is forwarded back to the requesting agency who in turn has a committee or sometimes a person who makes the final call.
If it was an underage citation and the applicant is honest and upfront about it, I don't see any reason why it would prevent a secret clearance from being issued. With that said, it will be up to the agency doing the hiring.
The big things as previously mentioned are issues with credit or allegiance to the US. The govt wants to make sure you cannot be bribed or would have a tendency to sell out the US for money or to another government.