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Paterno v. NCAA

Based on her work history, she is probably either a consultant or expert witness for the defendants.

She's testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs. One of the highest ranking females in the history of the FBI, who no doubt knew Louis Freeh well (I believe he even gave her a promotion), and who investigated the Catholic Church during its sex abuse scandal is testifying on behalf of Paterno, et al.

Very interesting.
 
Photo of my cousin Tom when the Paterno case began and a projected photo of him when it ends.
pose16.jpg
 
She's testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs. One of the highest ranking females in the history of the FBI, who no doubt knew Louis Freeh well (I believe he even gave her a promotion), and who investigated the Catholic Church during its sex abuse scandal is testifying on behalf of Paterno, et al.

Very interesting.

So I can assume that she's not likely to be painting a very flattering picture of her ex-boss.
 
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She's testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs. One of the highest ranking females in the history of the FBI, who no doubt knew Louis Freeh well (I believe he even gave her a promotion), and who investigated the Catholic Church during its sex abuse scandal is testifying on behalf of Paterno, et al.

Very interesting.

Based upon the Notice, she worked on the Freeh investigation as did Atty Paw.
 
Didn't we hear rumors that two of Freeh's folks flipped for the good guys? No clue if these folks are those two. But one might hope that a woman who is tight with her church affiliation might actually have some morals.
 
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She's testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs. One of the highest ranking females in the history of the FBI, who no doubt knew Louis Freeh well (I believe he even gave her a promotion), and who investigated the Catholic Church during its sex abuse scandal is testifying on behalf of Paterno, et al.

Very interesting.

Don't confuse being one of the "highest ranking females in the FBI" with competence. Not inferring that she doesn't know her job, but gender had "a lot" to do with how far she climbed the ladder. Also, is she getting paid to testify for the plaintiff? You bet your ass she is. I've known first hand many law enforcement professionals (good cops) that sell their sole once they retire all for the mighty dollar. Most of them for the defense. Not putting her in that category but just making reference to former law enforcement personnel who become turncoats for the system.
 
She doesn't have to have morals. She just needs to speak the truth.

Believing in the obligation to "not lie" (one of the 8 temporal commandments that are part of the "Golden Rule") is a fundamental "moral" tenet I do believe (e.g., the keeper of the "anti Golden Rule" isn't called "Belial, The Great Deceiver" for nothing - his name is also the root of the term "Belie").
 
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Don't confuse being one of the "highest ranking females in the FBI" with competence. Not inferring that she doesn't know her job, but gender had "a lot" to do with how far she climbed the ladder. Also, is she getting paid to testify for the plaintiff? You bet your ass she is. I've known first hand many law enforcement professionals (good cops) that sell their sole once they retire all for the mighty dollar. Most of them for the defense. Not putting her in that category but just making reference to former law enforcement personnel who become turncoats for the system.

You have a problem?
 
She's testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs. One of the highest ranking females in the history of the FBI, who no doubt knew Louis Freeh well (I believe he even gave her a promotion), and who investigated the Catholic Church during its sex abuse scandal is testifying on behalf of Paterno, et al.

Very interesting.

It IS very interesting, but I disagree she is a Plaintiffs witness.

If she is testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs in this case, why, instead of sending her a subpoena, don't they just ask her for the documents? and take a written statement from her?

Perhaps we are confusing terms here. The Plaintiffs have noticed her deposition and prepared a subpoena for her records relating to "your work on the Freeh Investigation or the Freeh report." That means they want to know what she knows, not that she is a Plaintiff's witness.

I am guessing, from her prior association with Freeh in the FBI, that she worked on the report. Given her lofty attainments at the Bureau, my guess is she was a (if not the) primary author of the report. My guess is that while the Plaintiffs hope they can obtain information from her which helps their case, she is a witness listed by the DEFENSE, and everyone thinks her testimony, if believed, will help the defense.

It is possible I am wrong, and some hidden deal has taken place, or that they will turn her using the evidence they have, but absent some evidence of that, on this record, it is most likely she is a DEFENSE witness and they are taking her testimony to prepare for what she might say at trial.

The Plaintiffs don't depose their own witnesses, generally speaking. They depose the defense witnesses.

All that said, it is fun to imagine the questioning in a depo like this. "As to Fact A, what is the support in the records of the investigation for this fact?" List every document. Ask questions about every document.

"Any other documents which might have a bearing on whether Fact A is true?" Start listing any doc from the source materials which suggests it might not be true. Get her argument on the record as to each one, showing why she thinks it does not tend to show the falsity of Fact A.

Are you aware of information from ANY source which might conceivably cast doubt on Fact A, whether in the source documents or not?

"How did you rule out the existence of counter evidence, given your lack of subpoena power?"

Then start showing her what you have. (It will be painful for everyone involved. The receptionist at the desk sitting 100 feet away from the conference room where this depo is held will have a headache when this depo is over.)

If there is convincing counter-evidence for Fact A, which was not recited in your report, then it is possible that Fact A is false? Explain every effort you made to find such counter-evidence?"

Here is my question. She will spend hundreds of hours preparing for and giving this deposition. Who pays for her time? For the Love of God, it is not PennState, is it? We are not using general revenues of the University to pay this woman, are we?
 
It IS very interesting, but I disagree she is a Plaintiffs witness.

If she is testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs in this case, why, instead of sending her a subpoena, don't they just ask her for the documents? and take a written statement from her?

Perhaps we are confusing terms here. The Plaintiffs have noticed her deposition and prepared a subpoena for her records relating to "your work on the Freeh Investigation or the Freeh report." That means they want to know what she knows, not that she is a Plaintiff's witness.

I am guessing, from her prior association with Freeh in the FBI, that she worked on the report. Given her lofty attainments at the Bureau, my guess is she was a (if not the) primary author of the report. My guess is that while the Plaintiffs hope they can obtain information from her which helps their case, she is a witness listed by
It IS very interesting, but I disagree she is a Plaintiffs witness.

If she is testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs in this case, why, instead of sending her a subpoena, don't they just ask her for the documents? and take a written statement from her?

Perhaps we are confusing terms here. The Plaintiffs have noticed her deposition and prepared a subpoena for her records relating to "your work on the Freeh Investigation or the Freeh report." That means they want to know what she knows, not that she is a Plaintiff's witness.

I am guessing, from her prior association with Freeh in the FBI, that she worked on the report. Given her lofty attainments at the Bureau, my guess is she was a (if not the) primary author of the report. My guess is that while the Plaintiffs hope they can obtain information from her which helps their case, she is a witness listed by the DEFENSE, and everyone thinks her testimony, if believed, will help the defense.

It is possible I am wrong, and some hidden deal has taken place, or that they will turn her using the evidence they have, but absent some evidence of that, on this record, it is most likely she is a DEFENSE witness and they are taking her testimony to prepare for what she might say at trial.

The Plaintiffs don't depose their own witnesses, generally speaking. They depose the defense witnesses.

All that said, it is fun to imagine the questioning in a depo like this. "As to Fact A, what is the support in the records of the investigation for this fact?" List every document. Ask questions about every document.

"Any other documents which might have a bearing on whether Fact A is true?" Start listing any doc from the source materials which suggests it might not be true. Get her argument on the record as to each one, showing why she thinks it does not tend to show the falsity of Fact A.

Are you aware of information from ANY source which might conceivably cast doubt on Fact A, whether in the source documents or not?

"How did you rule out the existence of counter evidence, given your lack of subpoena power?"

Then start showing her what you have. (It will be painful for everyone involved. The receptionist at the desk sitting 100 feet away from the conference room where this depo is held will have a headache when this depo is over.)

If there is convincing counter-evidence for Fact A, which was not recited in your report, then it is possible that Fact A is false? Explain every effort you made to find such counter-evidence?"

Here is my question. She will spend hundreds of hours preparing for and giving this deposition. Who pays for her time? For the Love of God, it is not PennState, is it? We are not using general revenues of the University to pay this woman, are we?

the DEFENSE, and everyone thinks her testimony, if believed, will help the defense.

It is possible I am wrong, and some hidden deal has taken place, or that they will turn her using the evidence they have, but absent some evidence of that, on this record, it is most likely she is a DEFENSE witness and they are taking her testimony to prepare for what she might say at trial.

The Plaintiffs don't depose their own witnesses, generally speaking. They depose the defense witnesses.

All that said, it is fun to imagine the questioning in a depo like this. "As to Fact A, what is the support in the records of the investigation for this fact?" List every document. Ask questions about every document.

"Any other documents which might have a bearing on whether Fact A is true?" Start listing any doc from the source materials which suggests it might not be true. Get her argument on the record as to each one, showing why she thinks it does not tend to show the falsity of Fact A.

Are you aware of information from ANY source which might conceivably cast doubt on Fact A, whether in the source documents or not?

"How did you rule out the existence of counter evidence, given your lack of subpoena power?"

Then start showing her what you have. (It will be painful for everyone involved. The receptionist at the desk sitting 100 feet away from the conference room where this depo is held will have a headache when this depo is over.)

If there is convincing counter-evidence for Fact A, which was not recited in your report, then it is possible that Fact A is false? Explain every effort you made to find such counter-evidence?"
It IS very interesting, but I disagree she is a Plaintiffs witness.

If she is testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs in this case, why, instead of sending her a subpoena, don't they just ask her for the documents? and take a written statement from her?

Perhaps we are confusing terms here. The Plaintiffs have noticed her deposition and prepared a subpoena for her records relating to "your work on the Freeh Investigation or the Freeh report." That means they want to know what she knows, not that she is a Plaintiff's witness.

I am guessing, from her prior association with Freeh in the FBI, that she worked on the report. Given her lofty attainments at the Bureau, my guess is she was a (if not the) primary author of the report. My guess is that while the Plaintiffs hope they can obtain information from her which helps their case, she is a witness listed by the DEFENSE, and everyone thinks her testimony, if believed, will help the defense.

It is possible I am wrong, and some hidden deal has taken place, or that they will turn her using the evidence they have, but absent some evidence of that, on this record, it is most likely she is a DEFENSE witness and they are taking her testimony to prepare for what she might say at trial.

The Plaintiffs don't depose their own witnesses, generally speaking. They depose the defense witnesses.

All that said, it is fun to imagine the questioning in a depo like this. "As to Fact A, what is the support in the records of the investigation for this fact?" List every document. Ask questions about every document.

"Any other documents which might have a bearing on whether Fact A is true?" Start listing any doc from the source materials which suggests it might not be true. Get her argument on the record as to each one, showing why she thinks it does not tend to show the falsity of Fact A.

Are you aware of information from ANY source which might conceivably cast doubt on Fact A, whether in the source documents or not?

"How did you rule out the existence of counter evidence, given your lack of subpoena power?"

Then start showing her what you have. (It will be painful for everyone involved. The receptionist at the desk sitting 100 feet away from the conference room where this depo is held will have a headache when this depo is over.)

If there is convincing counter-evidence for Fact A, which was not recited in your report, then it is possible that Fact A is false? Explain every effort you made to find such counter-evidence?"

Here is my question. She will spend hundreds of hours preparing for and giving this deposition. Who pays for her time? For the Love of God, it is not PennState, is it? We are not using general revenues of the University to pay this woman, are we?

It appears she no longer works for the Freeh group and therefore would not have the requested documents. Why would she spend 10 minutes preparing for the deposition? She will remember certain things while having forgotten much. So what.

Remember this litigation is not about whether the Freeh report was correct. The defendants are being sued for their actions against Penn State and the resultant "harm" suffered by plaintiffs. They did not produce the report but rather relied on it. Was the reliance unreasonable; that may be the question.

Your anticipated questions don't seem to have any relevance to the litigation; just my opinion.
 
It appears she no longer works for the Freeh group and therefore would not have the requested documents. Why would she spend 10 minutes preparing for the deposition? She will remember certain things while having forgotten much. So what.

Remember this litigation is not about whether the Freeh report was correct. The defendants are being sued for their actions against Penn State and the resultant "harm" suffered by plaintiffs. They did not produce the report but rather relied on it. Was the reliance unreasonable; that may be the question.

Your anticipated questions don't seem to have any relevance to the litigation; just my opinion.
I think they are calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence. Pretty sure they will take her though the report in a manner similar to what I suggest whether she still works for Freeh or not, but likely we will never know for sure.

And you are dead wrong about one thing: you better believe this litigation is about whether Freeh was correct or not. If she wrote that report and cannot support it, there's trouble for the NCAA.
 
It appears she no longer works for the Freeh group and therefore would not have the requested documents. Why would she spend 10 minutes preparing for the deposition? She will remember certain things while having forgotten much. So what.

Remember this litigation is not about whether the Freeh report was correct. The defendants are being sued for their actions against Penn State and the resultant "harm" suffered by plaintiffs. They did not produce the report but rather relied on it. Was the reliance unreasonable; that may be the question.

Your anticipated questions don't seem to have any relevance to the litigation; just my opinion.
Well....it was a nice run.

But, just like the Swallows retuning to Capistrano........here come the circle-jerkers - with Mr. GTASCA in the lead.
 
Didn't we hear rumors that two of Freeh's folks flipped for the good guys? No clue if these folks are those two. But one might hope that a woman who is tight with her church affiliation might actually have some morals.
I would doubt that either of these two would fall under that category ("flippers").
 
She's testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs. One of the highest ranking females in the history of the FBI, who no doubt knew Louis Freeh well (I believe he even gave her a promotion), and who investigated the Catholic Church during its sex abuse scandal is testifying on behalf of Paterno, et al.

Very interesting.
Uh.......I'd hold the phone on those assertions.
 
Stink, look at this bullshit. A presentation by Kathleen in 2013. Look at slide 8.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Kawag_P9aRxMk124A&sig2=XID73rmdxZPouaaL27i68A
Right. Properly done, the deposition of this woman will place at risk all of this stuff that she has made a living from. Her credibility as an expert in this area will be damaged severely if the deposing lawyer does his job. Yet we are told here that she won't spend 10 minutes preparing to give the deposition. Sure she won't.
 
I think they are calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence. Pretty sure they will take her though the report in a manner similar to what I suggest whether she still works for Freeh or not, but likely we will never know for sure.

And you are dead wrong about one thing: you better believe this litigation is about whether Freeh was correct or not. If she wrote that report and cannot support it, there's trouble for the NCAA.

I'm curious as to why you take that position. The Freeh report was commissioned by Penn State, not the NCAA. Was the NCAA unreasonable in using the report as a basis for the sanctions? Would a reasonable person reject that report on its face? I ask that question not in the context of whether the conclusions were correct, but rather when taken as a whole is the report patently defective on its face.

On what legal theory is the plaintiff's cause of action based?

It seems people are losing sight of the big picture, or perhaps I missed it. Let me submit an extreme what if scenario. Suppose she testifies she doesn't remember anything from her investigation; how would that effect plaintiffs suit.
 
I'm curious as to why you take that position. The Freeh report was commissioned by Penn State, not the NCAA. Was the NCAA unreasonable in using the report as a basis for the sanctions? Would a reasonable person reject that report on its face? I ask that question not in the context of whether the conclusions were correct, but rather when taken as a whole is the report patently defective on its face.

On what legal theory is the plaintiff's cause of action based?

It seems people are losing sight of the big picture, or perhaps I missed it. Let me submit an extreme what if scenario. Suppose she testifies she doesn't remember anything from her investigation; how would that effect plaintiffs suit.
By itself that would not affect it at all, but then those on the Plaintiffs' side who are going to show that the report is a sham and a joke will have a very wide opening to run through. If you think that will not hurt BOTH the NCAA AND PSU's OG BoT, you are missing the point.

Pretty sure that ONE of the Plaintiff's theories is that NCAA had no right to use the report in place of conducting its own investigation, period, as shown in the NCAAs own bylaws. How much worse will that be for NCAA if the report is obviously flawed and questioning the author shows it clearly? If your theory were operative, we should see a motion to quash, granted by the judge, since whether the report is based in fact is irrelevant. Pretty sure that is not in the cards.
 
I'm curious as to why you take that position. The Freeh report was commissioned by Penn State, not the NCAA. Was the NCAA unreasonable in using the report as a basis for the sanctions? Would a reasonable person reject that report on its face? I ask that question not in the context of whether the conclusions were correct, but rather when taken as a whole is the report patently defective on its face.

On what legal theory is the plaintiff's cause of action based?

It seems people are losing sight of the big picture, or perhaps I missed it. Let me submit an extreme what if scenario. Suppose she testifies she doesn't remember anything from her investigation; how would that effect plaintiffs suit.
Just ask her about all of the presentations she made using the Freeh report to make fees. One at a time. The above mentioned report is a little more than a year old. Has she done one since then? Before then? She is now a consultant. Reporting this stuff is her stock and trade. She would have to be diagnosed with Alzheimer's to get out of this by saying I don't remember. Just think of all of the documents that she could be presented with to refresh her memory. How did she feel when Louie took to the podium on TV and made factually inaccurate statements. The report was fresh in her mind at the time. She knew he was either lying or just what, stupid?

DemLion is right on this one as he usually is. This should be a field day. If they can get past the ACP answers then this should be a whole lot of fun. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.
 
By itself that would not affect it at all, but then those on the Plaintiffs' side who are going to show that the report is a sham and a joke will have a very wide opening to run through. If you think that will not hurt BOTH the NCAA AND PSU's OG BoT, you are missing the point.

Pretty sure that ONE of the Plaintiff's theories is that NCAA had no right to use the report in place of conducting its own investigation, period, as shown in the NCAAs own bylaws. How much worse will that be for NCAA if the report is obviously flawed and questioning the author shows it clearly? If your theory were operative, we should see a motion to quash, granted by the judge, since whether the report is based in fact is irrelevant. Pretty sure that is not in the cards.

Well her failure to remember would not be probative as to the the validity of the report itself.

I agree that one theory has to be based on whether the NCAA could bypass its own procedures before instituting sanctions. But that claim is independent from whether the Freeh report was flawed or not. Either the NCAA has to conduct its own investigation or not. The bigger question is whether the NCAA has any power to impose sanctions in the first place which is also separate from the Freeh report.

I think there was no Motion to Quash since this is discovery of a non party witness and defense counsel doesn't have a dog in that fight. Perhaps the judge might entertain such a motion from the witness; or the court may allow the discovery based on the principle of "leading to the discovery of other relevant facts."
 
Well her failure to remember would not be probative as to the the validity of the report itself.

I agree that one theory has to be based on whether the NCAA could bypass its own procedures before instituting sanctions. But that claim is independent from whether the Freeh report was flawed or not. Either the NCAA has to conduct its own investigation or not. The bigger question is whether the NCAA has any power to impose sanctions in the first place which is also separate from the Freeh report
I suspect the Paterno's want the whole enchilada here. Even if they proved the NCAA had no authority under their own bylaws to use the Freeh report and impose sanctions, in the public's mind that's getting off on a technicality. I think they want the report proven to be false, as well as the other aspects regarding the NCAA's use of it, to try to change the narrative. In the court of public opinion, the more people they can take down, the more press it gets, and the more it changes perceptions about Joe, the university, and the program under Joe. I also have to think that IF that happens, many old guard BOT members will be faced with a lot of questions they don't want to answer. Questioning the validity of the NCAA to use Freeh doesn't accomplish that unless you also discredit Freeh.
 
I'm curious as to why you take that position. The Freeh report was commissioned by Penn State, not the NCAA. Was the NCAA unreasonable in using the report as a basis for the sanctions? Would a reasonable person reject that report on its face? I ask that question not in the context of whether the conclusions were correct, but rather when taken as a whole is the report patently defective on its face.

On what legal theory is the plaintiff's cause of action based?

It seems people are losing sight of the big picture, or perhaps I missed it. Let me submit an extreme what if scenario. Suppose she testifies she doesn't remember anything from her investigation; how would that effect plaintiffs suit.

You are wrongly assuming that the NCAA played no role in the drafting of the Freeh Report.
 
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