Penn State faculty fear the school will close campuses across the state

[doctornick]

I haven't seen this, PSU certainly wouldn't announce it, but I would bet U Park is becoming marginally less selective. Which mean thousands of kids who would have been offered Berks or Mont Alto or Altoona 10 years ago are offered UPark now.

PSU draws heavily from Pennsylvania between Philly and P-burgh, and that area is experiencing very rapid population loss. College age kids in Philly and Pittsburgh areas are increasingly nonwhite without long-term family ties to Pa., and that has not traditionally been UPark's demographic.

Yes and no. University Park is getting a little less selective and has been admitting a greater number of applicants. But this mostly the result of decreased yield (the number of students being admitted who are choosing to go to PSU). They usually accept around 40,000 students to UP and about 9000 enroll.

That being said they have been getting historical numbers of applicants including a ton from out of state (and a good bit international as well). I believe that part of the reason that yield is not as high over time is that a greater percentage of admits are from out of state/international and so it is very costly to go to PSU and so more such students decline to attend. Just eyeballing it, but ~40% of admitted Pennsylvania residents accept going to PSU while only ~12% accepted out of state residents end up going there. The 40% is actually a pretty solid number, but as mentioned with a stagnating population in state, PSU cannot depend on only in state to fill PSU main seats (in recent years, in state students make up around 55% of those at UP).

That being said, I don't think the "problem" is that kids are being offered UP instead of Commonwealth campuses. Out of state kids rarely attend non-UP campuses except for some like Behrend and Harrisburg and that's where the bulk of the "choosing not to go to PSU" admits are from. If PSU were being more selective, you'd have a smaller number of students enroll at UP but (I suspect) virtually no change at the other campuses - those not admitted to UP students would almost certainly go elsewhere (Pitt, Temple, PASSHE or private in state or to similar public schools out of state like WVU or SEC schools).

Ultimately it's just fewer college-age students and there are also some signs that college attendance may be trending downward because the job market has been so strong for non-college trade jobs and there has been disillusionment with taking on huge college debt.

If you can make close to $100k as an a/c installer/tech, why pay PSU $140,000 for a business degree?

I know people in the trades in Philly area and just about all of them have more jobs than qualified people to fill them (though with a recession probably on the way, that may not be true 6 months from now).

Just FWIW (since you brought up a business degree) but getting into Smeal is extremely competitive as a Freshman. So much so that it's a common piece of advice for anyone not Ivy League type caliber to just apply to DUS and transfer in to Smeal (it's not that tough to get a major there once enrolled, but it's very tough to get in out of high school).

 

[mgkpsu]

Not a ton of detail, but some interesting nuggets: https://onwardstate.com/2025/03/12/...for-determining-commonwealth-campus-closures/

 

[bison13]

There are very few students from out of state that will go to a Penn State branch campus unless they are going for athletics. That’s the reason that Montalto and York and some others have added sports teams recently. I know of plenty of kids applying from out of state, who get told that they are admitted to a branch campus and not university Park and they automatically eliminate Penn State from their schools. People from out of state do not want the branch campus experience, they want what they see on TV at football games and such, the big university experience.

 

[OaktonDave]

There are very few students from out of state that will go to a Penn State branch campus unless they are going for athletics. That’s the reason that Montalto and York and some others have added sports teams recently. I know of plenty of kids applying from out of state, who get told that they are admitted to a branch campus and not university Park and they automatically eliminate Penn State from their schools. People from out of state do not want the branch campus experience, they want what they see on TV at football games and such, the big university experience.

I don't have to go beyond my family for an example of this. My nephew was interested in Penn State, but when another B10 school and a B12 school, both with strong engineering programs, accepted him at their primary campuses and PSU accepted him at a branch campus, his interest in PSU was gone.

 

[mgkpsu]

There are very few students from out of state that will go to a Penn State branch campus unless they are going for athletics. That’s the reason that Montalto and York and some others have added sports teams recently. I know of plenty of kids applying from out of state, who get told that they are admitted to a branch campus and not university Park and they automatically eliminate Penn State from their schools. People from out of state do not want the branch campus experience, they want what they see on TV at football games and such, the big university experience.

Exactly. People live in a fantasy land if they think that a large % of kids from out of state are willing to spend 2 years living in a place like Schuykill County or Luzerne County, so they attend a completely different school instead. And many of the people from those areas whine about the tuition, so the commuter student numbers are low too. It's just not sustainable any longer.

 

[lurkerlion]

Re. this part "but how would that benefit the university overall?"

That is the thing that everyone automatically says. The problem I have with that is, the mission of the university isn't to benefit the university overall, the mission of the university is to serve the people of PA. All of them, not just the ones in Centre County.

PA has been stagnating population-wise for a long time, as some have pointed out. But why is it that while that has been happening, the Main Campus has been flourishing and getting bigger and bigger and the branch campuses have been crapping out?

The counties with the closing branch campuses have been stagnant or falling in population, so we have to close them. But Main Campus has been growing, so let's not change that. Wait a minute, isn't that kind of a Catch-22? Maybe the reason for it is because we've been giving preference to the desires of the big Main Campus at the expense of the needs of the small branch campuses.

It's like me being in charge of which areas get nice houses, and then I put the nice houses where I live and not where you live, and in response the people where you live move away so then they can live in the nice houses where I live, and then I say "Sorry, but future nice houses will be where I live rather than where you live because so few people live where you live that nice houses in that location aren't needed anymore." You'd say "Yeah, no sh*t, and that's your fault."

People from Fayette County that go to Fayette Campus are probably much more likely to stay in Fayette County after school than are people from Fayette County that go to Main Campus. The fact that Fayette County has been languishing over recent years means they should put MORE resources into Fayette County, not less. The fact that Centre County has been flourishing means they can put less resources into Centre County. But since the people making the decisions are in Centre County, guess what's going to happen.

Fayette specific question. Do you know if the Eberly family is a player in the discussions? The Eberly family built a lot on that campus. AND the Eberly College of Science at Main. Main better be careful…

 

[OaktonDave]

There are very few students from out of state that will go to a Penn State branch campus unless they are going for athletics. That’s the reason that Montalto and York and some others have added sports teams recently. I know of plenty of kids applying from out of state, who get told that they are admitted to a branch campus and not university Park and they automatically eliminate Penn State from their schools. People from out of state do not want the branch campus experience, they want what they see on TV at football games and such, the big university experience.

Of the many challenges with the branch campuses is that the experience they offer has little in common with UP beyond the name. Most of the students are commuters and there's little in the way of campus life. The guys I knew who went to Hazelton lived at home, mostly hung out with their friends from HS who also went there, had very few opportunities to explore new things through campus organizations, and had few opportunities to meet new people outside of class. UP is the exact opposite, and if you're looking for that kind of college experience, the branch campuses hold little appeal. Conversely, if you're happy with the branch campus experience, UP probably isn't going to be your cup of tea.

 

[Op2]

Of the many challenges with the branch campuses is that the experience they offer has little in common with UP beyond the name. Most of the students are commuters and there's little in the way of campus life. The guys I knew who went to Hazelton lived at home, mostly hung out with their friends from HS who also went there, had very few opportunities to explore new things through campus organizations, and had few opportunities to meet new people outside of class. UP is the exact opposite, and if you're looking for that kind of college experience, the branch campuses hold little appeal. Conversely, if you're happy with the branch campus experience, UP probably isn't going to be your cup of tea.

The thing is, if PSU is serving the public, as is their stated mission, they should make sure they serve ALL the public, not just the ones that want to go to main campus and get The Big College Experience.

Getting a college education (in the sense of just the education) should not be location-specific, especially in the day and age where remote learning is easy and cheap.

Getting a college education (in the sense of the education plus The Big College Experience) is location-specific and the people that want it should be willing to pay for all that extra stuff.

The problem is that the people in charge of things, who almost all had the latter and who want that to be the norm, DEFINE the default college experience as The Big College Experience.

And of course since lots of fun is involved with The Big College Experience, young people are eager to jump onboard. And they should jump onboard as long as they're willing to PAY FOR IT. But if the people in charge DEFINE what the default college experience is then either (a) they can convince the public that the public should pay for it or (b) they can convince the students to take out loans for it, regardless of whether they can pay back the loans.

 

[mgkpsu]

The thing is, if PSU is serving the public, as is their stated mission, they should make sure they serve ALL the public, not just the ones that want to go to main campus and get The Big College Experience.

Getting a college education (in the sense of just the education) should not be location-specific, especially in the day and age where remote learning is easy and cheap.

Getting a college education (in the sense of the education plus The Big College Experience) is location-specific and the people that want it should be willing to pay for all that extra stuff.

The problem is that the people in charge of things, who almost all had the latter and who want that to be the norm, DEFINE the default college experience as The Big College Experience.

And of course since lots of fun is involved with The Big College Experience, young people are eager to jump onboard. And they should jump onboard as long as they're willing to PAY FOR IT. But if the people in charge DEFINE what the default college experience is then either (a) they can convince the public that the public should pay for it or (b) they can convince the students to take out loans for it, regardless of whether they can pay back the loans.

I'm not really sure what argument you are trying to make, but there are something like 41 Bachelors degree programs offered via Penn State's online World Campus, so I don't see how closing some branch campuses, especially where several campuses are clustered together, prevents students from being serviced.

Some of you don't seem to understand that a sizeable chunk of kids nowadays want to leave home, and many parents are willing and able to fund it. And many also want the big college experience.

 

[OaktonDave]

The thing is, if PSU is serving the public, as is their stated mission, they should make sure they serve ALL the public, not just the ones that want to go to main campus and get The Big College Experience.

Getting a college education (in the sense of just the education) should not be location-specific, especially in the day and age where remote learning is easy and cheap.

Getting a college education (in the sense of the education plus The Big College Experience) is location-specific and the people that want it should be willing to pay for all that extra stuff.

The problem is that the people in charge of things, who almost all had the latter and who want that to be the norm, DEFINE the default college experience as The Big College Experience.

And of course since lots of fun is involved with The Big College Experience, young people are eager to jump onboard. And they should jump onboard as long as they're willing to PAY FOR IT. But if the people in charge DEFINE what the default college experience is then either (a) they can convince the public that the public should pay for it or (b) they can convince the students to take out loans for it, regardless of whether they can pay back the loans.

So, unless Penn State is serving all of the public at all of the locations it wants to be served and in the way it wants to be served, it isn't serving the public. Sorry, I don't agree. In as much as the branch system is extremely rare for state university systems, under your argument, virtually every major state university in the United States is failing to serve the public. That's not a reasonable assertion. (BTW, nowhere in its documentation, past or present, does Penn State indicate that its mission is to "serve the public." In stating what does, the benefits to the public are obvious, but there's nothing that could be interpreted to mean the school mission is to serve the public in the manner you suggest. https://sites.psu.edu/hnpsuptahandbook/introduction/university-mission/)

The state of PA does not have a shortage of public colleges and universities. If you don't want the big college experience, you can attend a smaller public school and get a perfectly good education. Why does PSU have to meet the desires of students that don't want to have big college experience when there are other state schools perfectly equipped to meet those needs? Beyond that, if you want the PSU diploma without the big college experience there are some branches that have four-year programs as well the on-line programs through World Campus.

Nobody is trying to define the college experience. Given the wide range of options, they couldn't if they wanted to. The best any school can do is offer an experience which some students will choose and some will reject. No school is capable of being all things to all people. This is something that every rational high school student understands when they start looking at colleges. It's on the student to decide what they want and choose the school that best fits their desires. Insisting that a school change to fit their desires or create some entity to fit their desires isn't even vaguely reasonable or realistic.