Football Penn State S KJ Winston to be out 'long term'
- Thread starter Dylan Callaghan-Croley
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I don't think it's about player privacy. If that was the case it would be the player's decision if he wants to disclose his injury. I don't recall any player disclosing anything under Franklin.
Has anybody analyzed the first half defense against BGSU to determine how much of the problem was that we missed Winston?
It seems to me that Winston's injury should encourage Carter back to LB. The idea was that we could move Carter to DE because we could play with 5 DBs. That suddenly sounds a lot more difficult.
Yes now I would think we need Carter back at LB roaming more. Here's the issue though, in my opinion DDS is not playing up to his 5 star billing so we don't have much of an EDGE pass rush or simply a guy who can disrupt and blow up plays. We also need to get Fisher back. Nonetheless I still think we need Carter back at the middle line of defense and just line him up in different spots based on what the offensive formation shows.
Yep, he should be more transparent. Also, what is annoying is when asked on Tuesday about Winson's status he says "We will know more after practice tomorrow" he definitely used the word "practice". I took that as he was practicing or at least out there but I don't believe that was the case. How do you practice then suddenly have a "long term" injury? He should have just said in a couple of days but instead he uses misleading, confusing language. It also would have been nice if one of those beat writers picked up on this and followed up with him to clarify if Winston was going to practice or try to practice. This injury is not like a depth guy 2nd or 3rd string, he is one of our best players and one of the most important players on defense.
You are right, in this world of NIL people are "investing" in these athletes. In this new world I would argue people now deserve full disclosure on injuries. Like you say he doesn't need to release the detailed medical report but at least what is the nature of the industry and a projected timeline for how much time the player may miss.
100%. Great point. I as well was looking forward to hearing the update on Winston after JF specifically said "we'll know more after practice." That magically ends up being a long term injury, sure ok. It's just frustrating how we can't get a clear answer. He isn't being some creative, outside the box thinker with his approach, it's dumb and flimsy with the truth. If he truly appreciates the fans and the support we bring (which JF does mention), well maybe some accurate injury info, or at least an idea would be a nice reciprocated gesture. Maybe those fans who spend a ton going to the peach bowl, or travel out west to see the team, will think twice or at least have a more measured decision knowing if key guys are out.
Absolutely. His misleading and secretive stance on injuries is both fraudulent and tone deaf. Again, I like Franklin on the large part, but he really needs to reassess his stance here. Insiders on the other site, the other PAY site, were reporting that Winston was practicing on Monday, then on Tuesday Franklin says we will see after practice on Wednesday, then on Wednesday night suddenly Winston is out for the season, and let's face it, if he sits against SC and Ohio State, THAT is the season. We have slim to zero shot at stopping Moss and those receivers on the road, and probably the same against that Smith kid and Ohio States 5 stars at home.
Frankly he needs to drop the shuck and jive and get real with the fans like his peers all do. His song and dance is bush league in the current state of the game
My guess is that this is an edict from the attorneys who represent PSU for legal reasons.
As a Penguins' fan, I also get irritated when Sullivan always phrases injuries as either upper or lower body, which I believe that all other NHL teams also do. I've gotten to the point at which I really don't care anymore because the teams obviously don't deem it to be important to inform the fans about the nature of an injury, and I'm not saying whether that's leaglly right or wrong.
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We probably wouldn't have had much of a chance to slow down the passing attacks of USC or OSU even with a completely healthy defense; those two offenses are going to score a lot of points in almost every game that they play. I don't get the feeling that this defense is going to be a shut down defense this season, although they still can be adequate. That's why the offense always was going to have to score probably in the 30s in those games for us to even have a chance, similar to the OSU game in 2022. Can this offense do that in those games? My guess is no.
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Absolutely true regarding edicts from attorneys. We live in a litigious society. I just had a conversation with a professional peer the other day that human resources and attorneys appear to run society and this influences organizations at the expense of operations and quality.
I say that as an attorney myself who knows how to write legalese, and the phrase "long term injury" has legalese written all over it because it is intentioanlly vague. Also, until this past spring, I never had heard Franklin refer to injuries in that way.
So, it is your belief that the injury information is not being withheld for competitive reasons but rather for legal protection of the program?
Coaching staff? Doctors? All of the previously mentioned groups?
Apparently I am naive or ignorant because I don't understand how the football teams and coaches that previously handle these situations were putting their teams in jeopardy.
I admit that I say this without any inside information, but yes, I believe that Franklin now is using these vague and ambiguous terms to classify injuries because he has been instructed to do that by his superiors based on the instructions of the law firm that represents the university either to comply with various laws and/or as a defense against a possible law suit. As I said, I have no inside information and perhaps am wrong, but I'm probably right.
Also...as I wrote earlier in the thread....weekly there are other coaches (whom I'm listen to their pressers) that are open about injuries, timetables, etc. I think it has little to nothing to do legally and more just JF thinking he has to be suave and coy about the details. As if knowing that Kaden Saunders is out truly affects our competitive advantage. Give me a break. It's idiotic. As Delco wrote and I concur, it is bush league for the media, fans, etc., to not even be given the kernels of truth. By all accounts, Winston practiced, and now he is out long term, sure sure. Those fans who had the wool thrown over their eyes for the Peach Bowl should be reimbursed and apologized to.
Wasn't it Trey Wallace who last year was seemingly mired in the 'week to week' to 'long term' situation...never really got anything clear from JF, if memory serves. I like many things about JF, but his whole operation about info to the media, fans, and his perhaps paranoia about them all is mind boggling.
Our esquire friend believes it may be for legal protection.
I'm trying to envision the scenario where the method that they previously used would put them in legal jeopardy.
Remember, there was a PSU basketball player last season who was out with an undisclosed injury who eventually left the program during the season because his daddy didn't think that the coach was using his son properly. I don't ever recall hearing what the exact nature of his injury was; he just wasn't playing for some unspecified reason. That's why I believe that this is being dictated from above. Also, like I said, I don't ever recall Franklin using the phrase "long term injury" until after spring practice this past April.
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You, me, and others on here as well. So, then if it is a legal thing, most other coaches who are open and more transparent are violating the law or rules? If so, nobody seems to care or do anything about it. I just find it hard to believe that if JF says "Player X has an ankle right now and is hoping to be back next week, or at the latest in two weeks," that in some way that violates the rules or the law. Rather, I think it is JF just being flimsy with info and treating everyone like children.
So do you want Franklin to be here or not?
We're absolutely a contender to make the playoff not to win a title
Do you think Franklin is the only variable?
There are 100+ teams BEHIND PSU and they dont have Franklin. Funny thing is you would most likely be hiring from that pool.
Regarding concussions, Sidney Crosby did not play from basically the beginning of January 2011 until December 2011 after sustaining a concussion in the 2011 Winter Classic.
If after his time here we aren't at minimum a playoff contender he has to go. That's not even debatable. Especially with our weak schedule and the talent he has. You're already working on excuses for him. I have no doubt we'll make the playoffs...then next year the goal is to win a playoff game and it keeps building.
That is clearly legalese. The question being raised by other posters is they don't hear other coaches using this kind of BS useless language that says nothing.
Well PSU did have a recent lawsuit from a doctor accusing Franklin of meddling with the medical staff, but the Franklin portion was beyond the statute of limitations so he wasn't personally part of the suit. That could be a reason for a more conservative approach from a legal advice perspective.
Yeah that could be it. Does anyone on the premium board or any of the media guys who are covering the program and around it have any intell? At least it would be nice to know if it is definitely season ending.
For example, maybe we get into the playoffs at 10-2 and there is a possibility of having him for a playoff game. Not sure how effective he would be but that is beside the point.
Perhaps one of the media should directly ask CJF is his terminology about injuries is direction from PSU legal reps. He should not refuse to give a straight answer. The media needs to step up.
Good luck with that. These guys waste a minute of every press meeting with "good morning/afternoon/evening James. How are ya?" Then he reciprocates.
I understand pleasantries, but after someone asks how are you doing first, it's ridiculous for everyone to continue asking.
And even if good questions are asked, JF tends not to disclose much. Just how he is.
But he appreciates everyone coming out to cover Penn State football. They were going to cover the Penn State Altoona field hockey game but decided to cover the football game at Beaver Stadium instead.
I'm uncertain if a representative of the AP gleaned this information from a private conversation with CJF but this is what they are reporting in a story carried by the Trib.:
"Franklin announced after the team’s Wednesday practice that safety K.J. Winston is expected to miss multiple games with an unspecified injury."
I wish those were the words that coach had decided to use.....
"Franklin announced after the team’s Wednesday practice that safety K.J. Winston is expected to miss multiple games with an unspecified injury."
I wish those were the words that coach had decided to use.....
What drives me nuts is that it doesn't have any bearing on how a team prepares for you. If you think Illinois, or USC, are basing their prep on Winston being out, or in, you are insane. They will obviously have a plan in place, that will identify Winston not in the field, and copy Kent State. This will not change unless Winston gets on the field but they aren't going to practice as if Winston is playing, when they know he's out. Franklin isn't fooling anyone with his secrecy.
What he should be doing now is doing something different than he did against BG. Miller at the Lion was a complete liability in the first half. BG targeted 0 or 5 in each and every play depending on which one was in the game.
If they are going to do THAT, then expect the same results. At this point I think 16 has earned more reps, and they need him on the field more than 5. If number 10 on defense is everything that Franklin says he is, then he needs to start now, not on October 12th in California. Otherwise, I really don't know what the answer is. Actually I do know...score a $hit load of points and win games 41-31 from now on 😂
What he should be doing now is doing something different than he did against BG. Miller at the Lion was a complete liability in the first half. BG targeted 0 or 5 in each and every play depending on which one was in the game.
If they are going to do THAT, then expect the same results. At this point I think 16 has earned more reps, and they need him on the field more than 5. If number 10 on defense is everything that Franklin says he is, then he needs to start now, not on October 12th in California. Otherwise, I really don't know what the answer is. Actually I do know...score a $hit load of points and win games 41-31 from now on 😂
I'm pretty sure that's just the writer's interpretation of Franklin saying it was a long term injury.
Saw a shot of Winston walking around on the sidelines in today's game.
FWIW, he seemed to be moving well and not using crutches or a boot. I guess we won't really know how serious his injuries are until we see him back playing.
FWIW, he seemed to be moving well and not using crutches or a boot. I guess we won't really know how serious his injuries are until we see him back playing.
