Penn State Wrestling and the Division I Team National Championships

[NittanyLion84]

I’ve been doing some research and here is what I have found. The NCAA held It’s first NCAA Wrestling Tournament in 1928, but they did not have team scoring, the tournament was to determine individual champions and only conference champions were invited. The first year that they instituted team scoring was in 1934, prior to 1934 all Team Titles were classified as “Unofficial Team Titles” and were determined by a poll.

As you can tell by my signature, Penn State won two Unofficial Team Titles in 1913 and 1921. That leads me to Oklahoma State, they obtained Unofficial Team Titles in 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1933 and these five Team Titles are part of their Grand Total, of their claimed 34 Titles.

So if Oklahoma State is claiming five Unofficial Team Titles as part of their total why does Penn State Wrestling not claim their two Unofficial Team Titles in their total? Incidentally, if they did, that would put Penn State’s Team Titles Total at 15.

 

[AgSurfer]

I’ve been doing some research and here is what I have found. The NCAA held It’s first NCAA Wrestling Tournament in 1928, but they did not have team scoring, the tournament was to determine individual champions and only conference champions were invited. The first year that they instituted team scoring was in 1934, prior to 1934 all Team Titles were classified as “Unofficial Team Titles” and were determined by a poll.

As you can tell by my signature, Penn State won two Unofficial Team Titles in 1913 and 1921. That leads me to Oklahoma State, they obtained Unofficial Team Titles in 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1933 and these five Team Titles are part of their Grand Total, of their claimed 34 Titles.

So if Oklahoma State is claiming five Unofficial Team Titles as part of their total why does Penn State Wrestling not claim their two Unofficial Team Titles in their total? Incidentally, if they did, that would put Penn State’s Team Titles Total at 15.

Interesting research! 👍

Would also be interesting to see how many weights were used at each of these events and how many 1st place wins the teams had.

You can be sure that the NCAA tournament has evolved in many different ways over the years. In the past, D2 and D3 schools could participate, the number of qualifiers at each weight has changed, rules have changed and probably most importantly, the TV coverage has increased dramatically. (Thank you ESPN!)

A good niche book for someone with plenty of spare time to write would be The History of the NCAA Wrestling Championships.

 

[orange nole]

Very interesting, Penn State should. Does Iowa claim any unofficially? You know, it’s been about 20 years(the Hendricks/Pendleton days) since I really didn’t like Oklahoma State, a little bit four or five years ago, but it’s growing. They must be doing something right haha.

 

[Conewago]

I’ve been doing some research and here is what I have found. The NCAA held It’s first NCAA Wrestling Tournament in 1928, but they did not have team scoring, the tournament was to determine individual champions and only conference champions were invited. The first year that they instituted team scoring was in 1934, prior to 1934 all Team Titles were classified as “Unofficial Team Titles” and were determined by a poll.

As you can tell by my signature, Penn State won two Unofficial Team Titles in 1913 and 1921. That leads me to Oklahoma State, they obtained Unofficial Team Titles in 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1933 and these five Team Titles are part of their Grand Total, of their claimed 34 Titles.

So if Oklahoma State is claiming five Unofficial Team Titles as part of their total why does Penn State Wrestling not claim their two Unofficial Team Titles in their total? Incidentally, if they did, that would put Penn State’s Team Titles Total at 15.

Because Penn State historically is extremely queasy about national championship claims.

For example, football. Remember, whatever you want to call the big time - FCS, D1 A - it is the only NCAA sport with no official straight national championship sanction from the NCAA. Everything is "NCAA-recognized selection."

For example, *I* may (correctly) consider the 94 Nebraska national championship claims ridiculous because, sure, they went undefeated but did so with only 2-3 impressive performances (people want you to believe 94 Nebraska was as good as 95 Nebraska) but they did have "NCAA-recognized " picks by the AP and Coaches Poll. This is because, due to the nature of the sport, our national championship process was "mythical" to quote Bo Schembechler (although that was sort of a cope because Woody Hayes won multiple MNCs whereas Bo won ZERO). Most of the time picking a national championship based on a vote rather than a playoff actually worked okay because the #1 was obvious but many times it didn't.

Now, Penn State football has NCAA-recognized selections in 1911, 1912, 1969, 1982, 1986, and 1994. But we only claim 82 and 86. Why? Because Penn State has unofficially decided we'll only claim if it's AP, Coaches Poll, or, now, a playoff win.

To my mind, this is unduly conservative. We should claim all SIX - ESPECIALLY 94, a team universally recognized by advanced stats and resume formulas as the best team that year and one of the best ever. I thought it was a TERRIBLE wasted opportunity that we didn't officially recognize the retuning 94 guys as what they were - national champions - last year at homecoming for the thirtieth anniversary of their remarkable achievements. Honestly, I'm rather bitter. But I'll get over it. Probably...I just wish we'd stop being so damn scrupulous.

And bear in mind many other programs (looking at you, Alabama!) claim far flimsier titles on the basis of weaker NCAA-recognized selectors. I'm fine with not claiming 1968 or '73, but even there there are far flimsier title claims.

That said, you see my point. If Penn State University won't claim 1969 or 94 in football, that answers your question. We are deeply conservative.

 

[Conewago]

Interestingly, your research indicates Penn State football and wrestling are actually similar insofar as both were very strong in the beginning, had a largely self-imposed doldrum (Football saw large scholarship cuts and essentially didn't try to win until hiring Rip), and then had periods of sustained excellence or (in the case of wrestling) dominance.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Very interesting, Penn State should. Does Iowa claim any unofficially? You know, it’s been about 20 years(the Hendricks/Pendleton days) since I really didn’t like Oklahoma State, a little bit four or five years ago, but it’s growing. They must be doing something right haha.

In my research, Iowa never won an Unofficial Title, prior to 1934. Their first title was in 1975.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Iowa does claim the 2020 title. Well at least the Iowa spokesentity, "HR or GIA".

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

Because Penn State historically is extremely queasy about national championship claims.

Oklahoma State accepts your claims without issue and finds it fully warranted. Congrats!

signed,
1945 NCAA football champions

 

[Conewago]

Oklahoma State accepts your claims without issue and finds it fully warranted. Congrats!

signed,
1945 NCAA football champions

Cringe. Army was indisputably #1 in 1945. The AFCA is insane to say otherwise.

You should claim 2011. The Colley Matrix is your NCAA-recognized selector. But it's also just obvious.

First, granted, that Iowa State loss was a bad loss. Iowa State was like 60th or something in SRS. But it WAS 1) on the road, 2) in overtime (which is fake in college), and 3) your kicker might have made that field goal. You know the one. Point is, that game was more of a tie (granted, a bad tie) than a loss.

Second, Oklahoma State played a PREPOSTEROUS road schedule: four legitimate top 30 teams, all of whom were top 20. And of course you destroyed a very good Oklahoma team.

Nick Saban had a knack for having weak road schedules. I'm not exaggerating when I say that it would usually take him three or four years to have as many hard road games as Oklahoma State had in '11. And winning tough road games is the hardest thing to do in college football. Everyone just assumed that the SEC was better than the Big 12 because ESPN told us so. But Oklahoma State was ahead of Alabama in the old BCS Computer Average. The voters just ignored that and precedent (2006 Florida over Michigan) because sec hype.

on no planet did Alabama deserve that title shot over you. That was wanton BS. SEC! SEC! SEC! *Vomit 🤮* Alabama played a weaker schedule. Losing to LSU (at home!) is better than barely losing at 6-7 Iowa State but not by a lot and just not good enough considering your resume otherwise.

On top of that, there's no reason to think LSU was better than you. The opposite seems more likely.

You should have claimed 2011 by now.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

You should have claimed 2011 by now.

That FG was 100% good and there's multiple angles that prove it. Also if you didnt know.....#4) there was a plane crash the night before that killed 2 OSU women basketball coaches and 2 boosters/alumni. Multiple football players years later talked about how difficult it was to try to not deal with that all day before the game. But anyways, back to wrestling. PSU should note those two titles in their total for sure.

 

[Cstroke]

Oklahoma State accepts your claims without issue and finds it fully warranted. Congrats!

signed,
1945 NCAA football champions