Phils now worst record in MLB; hope for the future?

[royboy]

At 22-40, they now have the worst record of all 30 MLB teams. Just 4 years ago, in 2011, they had the best record, finishing the regular season with 102 wins. Just how does a team go quickly from 100 wins to possibly 100 losses?

For those that follow the club and it's minor league system, is there help coming?

 

[garw]

No. They need a total make over starting with management.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

At 22-40, they now have the worst record of all 30 MLB teams. Just 4 years ago, in 2011, they had the best record, finishing the regular season with 102 wins. Just how does a team go quickly from 100 wins to possibly 100 losses?

For those that follow the club and it's minor league system, is there help coming?

First step is to exile Ruin Tomorrow Jr. to Pitcairn Island or Tristan de Cuhna - get him as far away from the Phillies as possible.

 

[bmw199]

Management more or less has switched over. Gillick is now team President and Montgomery retired, mostly due to his health. John Middleton is now 49% owner and will shortly have enough to become majority owner over the Buck family, and he has a Steinbrenner mentality of win at all cost. There are a number of guys I really like in the system and it looks like they drafted a lot of nice prospects in this draft that are lower risk than in previous years. Hopefully next year they can get a college stud who can blast through the minors at number 1. The next biggest thing is Howards contract running out after 16 and Lees and all the other money they shed. They will be able to go out and spend 100-125 million in the next few FA classes and bring in a couple all stars to go with the younger talent. The farm system was garbage just two years ago and they have already done a great job building up some arms:
AAA - No one
AA - SS Crawford, CF Quinn, SP Nola (future staff ACE), Eflin, Lively all have really bright futures. To a lesser degree SP Biddle and Windle (probably bullpen guy)
A+ - SP Leibrandt, Leiter Jr. (Mark's son, Al's nephew), Imhof are all really good pitchers. OF Cozens is one to watch if he can figure it out, was a DE hs recruit for Arizona I think, but he's really athletic.
A- - OF Tocci (he's Venezuelan and only 19 and he's been in the organization for 3 years when he signed as a 16 y/o) has massive potential. SP/RP Pinto has a chance.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Just how does a team go quickly from 100 wins to possibly 100 losses

By mortgaging tomorrow for yesterday... specifically signing Howard to a long term contract and trading prospects for a chance as a run as opposed to sticking with a long term plan for developing young players through an effective farm system.

I say this every time someone complains about the Phillies (or insert another baseball team). Baseball has the worst contracts in baseball. There is no reason they should be paying guys for underperforming. The model that the NFL is using is best. If you are a great or at least desirable player, your team or another team will have to pay the fair market value for you. If you don't perform, on the other hand, the team can cut you and do not have to pay the non guaranteed part of your contract. I can't believe that MLB hasn't been able to get this done via union negotiation.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Management more or less has switched over. Gillick is now team President and Montgomery retired, mostly due to his health. John Middleton is now 49% owner and will shortly have enough to become majority owner over the Buck family, and he has a Steinbrenner mentality of win at all cost. There are a number of guys I really like in the system and it looks like they drafted a lot of nice prospects in this draft that are lower risk than in previous years. Hopefully next year they can get a college stud who can blast through the minors at number 1. The next biggest thing is Howards contract running out after 16 and Lees and all the other money they shed. They will be able to go out and spend 100-125 million in the next few FA classes and bring in a couple all stars to go with the younger talent. The farm system was garbage just two years ago and they have already done a great job building up some arms:
AAA - No one
AA - SS Crawford, CF Quinn, SP Nola (future staff ACE), Eflin, Lively all have really bright futures. To a lesser degree SP Biddle and Windle (probably bullpen guy)
A+ - SP Leibrandt, Leiter Jr. (Mark's son, Al's nephew), Imhof are all really good pitchers. OF Cozens is one to watch if he can figure it out, was a DE hs recruit for Arizona I think, but he's really athletic.
A- - OF Tocci (he's Venezuelan and only 19 and he's been in the organization for 3 years when he signed as a 16 y/o) has massive potential. SP/RP Pinto has a chance.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Philadelphia sports fans have suffered through some of the worst ownership groups - incorrigible gamblers, cheapskates, dementia-addled ethnocentrists, etc. Nice to see the Phillies turning this around and I do like what the Sixers new owners are doing.

 

[EPC FAN]

At 22-40, they now have the worst record of all 30 MLB teams. Just 4 years ago, in 2011, they had the best record, finishing the regular season with 102 wins. Just how does a team go quickly from 100 wins to possibly 100 losses?

For those that follow the club and it's minor league system, is there help coming?

Here is a good site for you. http://phuturephillies.com/

 

[royboy]

Here is a good site for you. http://phuturephillies.com/

Thanks, EPC. So, the Phils are 22-40 Lehigh Valley is 22-41? ugh.
At least, Reading and Clearwater appear to be decent.

 

[EPC FAN]

By mortgaging tomorrow for yesterday... specifically signing Howard to a long term contract and trading prospects for a chance as a run as opposed to sticking with a long term plan for developing young players through an effective farm system.

I say this every time someone complains about the Phillies (or insert another baseball team). Baseball has the worst contracts in baseball. There is no reason they should be paying guys for underperforming. The model that the NFL is using is best. If you are a great or at least desirable player, your team or another team will have to pay the fair market value for you. If you don't perform, on the other hand, the team can cut you and do not have to pay the non guaranteed part of your contract. I can't believe that MLB hasn't been able to get this done via union negotiation.

What you want is Communism. That's the NFL. There is only one thing wrong with your way of doing things. NFL contracts are based on guys making the team and how their contract affects the salary cap in the future. Using your model, baseball teams wouldn't know who the hell they had, year to year. Baseball is a FAR different game from football. You can't just get allow players to leave year to year.

Thanks, EPC. So, the Phils are 22-40 Lehigh Valley is 22-41? ugh.
At least, Reading and Clearwater appear to be decent.

 

[EPC FAN]

Lehigh Valley has never had enough talent to actually win, yet the place is packed most nights. Fans go for the food and it is a rather cheap night out with baseball.
I just got a text from a friend telling me he got tickets for next Saturday night in Reading. I am anxious to see that team play. It is where most of the actual MLB talent is right now. They are a rather young, but talented team, starting to hit its stride. Reading is a straight shot down Rte 222 for me. About 30 miles. Great old ball park.

 

[dawgduice]

Well, I believe the Phils will trade Hamels and get some good "AAA" talent. They will trade Howard and get a "AA" guy that will hopefully develop. They will trade Peplebon for a "AA" guy or younger pro project type. Utley has amazingly become a player with zero value. They do have an improved minor league and will move some of these guys up at the end of the season and next year.
I think that next year we will see a vastly different team with a ton of youngsters. After next year as the "big buck" contracts expire the Phils will dive into the free-agent market for "younger" pros.
So, they are about 3 years away from being? Decent? Good? Who knows?
On the real PLUS side they have a great deal of money thanks to cable TV and government rules.

 

[psufan9808]

While I can't disagree with you that baseball has the worst contracts in baseball, they also have the best.

 

[Grant Green]

Management more or less has switched over. Gillick is now team President and Montgomery retired, mostly due to his health. John Middleton is now 49% owner and will shortly have enough to become majority owner over the Buck family, and he has a Steinbrenner mentality of win at all cost.

Don't hold your breath for Middleton. I've heard that the other owners don't want anyone to get 51%

 

[Grant Green]

By mortgaging tomorrow for yesterday... specifically signing Howard to a long term contract and trading prospects for a chance as a run as opposed to sticking with a long term plan for developing young players through an effective farm system.

I say this every time someone complains about the Phillies (or insert another baseball team). Baseball has the worst contracts in baseball. There is no reason they should be paying guys for underperforming. The model that the NFL is using is best. If you are a great or at least desirable player, your team or another team will have to pay the fair market value for you. If you don't perform, on the other hand, the team can cut you and do not have to pay the non guaranteed part of your contract. I can't believe that MLB hasn't been able to get this done via union negotiation.

That assumes they had talent to mortgage. None of the guys they traded have amounted to anything. I believe hamels is the last first round draft pick that has made an impact. The scouting and development is as much to blame as the GMs moves

 

[LBCnova]

Add a few more names to the list. Jake Diekman will be back on the Phils soon from AAA. The leading hitter in AA is a Reading Phil (Stassi I think his name is) and their second pick in this year's draft hit .392 in college and was Pac
12 player of the year. He's expected to move quickly through the minors (which could still mean a few years though).

 

[bjf1984]

At 22-40, they now have the worst record of all 30 MLB teams. Just 4 years ago, in 2011, they had the best record, finishing the regular season with 102 wins. Just how does a team go quickly from 100 wins to possibly 100 losses?

For those that follow the club and it's minor league system, is there help coming?

I don't follow the Phils as closely as I do the Pirates, but I think it is clear that the reason they are in this jam is that there is no rule in MLB outlawing stupidity. They spent money like a 13 year old at the King of Prussia Mall.....on guys who had zero chance of being worth those contracts long-term. Bought a couple good years, but now they are in baseball purgatory.

From what I see, the major league roster and the guys in high minors don't amount to much. They are probably best off to just come to grips with the fact that the "suckiness" will continue for a couple more years. Treat their young talent as gold....and accumulate as many of those guys as possible (maybe they can add a few by dumping Howard, Hamels, Papelbon....but would have to get lucky to get much for any of those veterans, because their contracts are just SO overpriced).

The light at the end of the tunnel is probably at least 2-3 years down the road, but that - IMHO - is a much better option than to try and Band-Aid the roster they have now.

 

[NittPicker]

Who will be the highest ranked prospect in next year's first year player draft?? The Phillies are on the clock!!

 

[niteowlgt]

The Penguins and Pirates were both classified as the worst teams in sports for more than one year. Both stocks were improved with top shelf draft picks over a period of years. I'm talking top 1-3 picks. Hopefully the Phils can get a bonafide star next year with the top pick. I always said Howard's contract will bite them. After '16 all these contracts will be gone. The Pirates owner, McClathey, had fire sales every July 31 for years. You had to sympathize for Pirate fans. It disrupts to think our Phils will come back with Amaro still having the gm position. He has been voted the worst in b-ball for a few years.

 

[Ranger Dan]

What you want is Communism.

Are you on crack? In what parallel universe is only paying for performance a type of communism? In fact, I'd say this is more like a prime example of capitalism and not communism.

 

[EPC FAN]

The Penguins and Pirates were both classified as the worst teams in sports for more than one year. Both stocks were improved with top shelf draft picks over a period of years. I'm talking top 1-3 picks. Hopefully the Phils can get a bonafide star next year with the top pick. I always said Howard's contract will bite them. After '16 all these contracts will be gone. The Pirates owner, McClathey, had fire sales every July 31 for years. You had to sympathize for Pirate fans. It disrupts to think our Phils will come back with Amaro still having the gm position. He has been voted the worst in b-ball for a few years.

He's done at the end of the year. Attendance is way down and then he insults the fan base to boot. If he comes back, attendance will drop more.

 

[EPC FAN]

Are you on crack? In what parallel universe is only paying for performance a type of communism? In fact, I'd say this is more like a prime example of capitalism and not communism.

NFL contracts are one way contracts.

Are you on crack? In what parallel universe is only paying for performance a type of communism? In fact, I'd say this is more like a prime example of capitalism and not communism.

It is actually not a free market. Why should there be a cap on what a player can make? Great players have been asked to take pay cuts to fit into the salary CAP. That's not market value. That not being paid for performance. Also, contracts are one way contracts. Teams sign guys with the sure knowledge that the contract will never be honored.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Why should there be a cap on what a player can make?

I never mentioned a salary cap. My point is that the contract should include a signing bonus and then the player gets the agreed salary for as long as the team wants the player. Guys like Ryan Howard could have been cut and the Phillies would no longer be stuck with his contract. If the Phillies cut him or the contract expires, then Howard could negotiate whatever the free market allowed.