Pitt and Penn

[Case I H]

Iowa fan here. Not a troll post, a serious question.

Pennsylvania obviously has great talent. High School Wrestling is huge here in Iowa, but you guys clearly have more talent, and are a bigger state. We are very blessed to have guys from your state, like Lee and Kemerer.

My question is, with Pitt getting a guy in the finals for tonight, and such a large talent pool in your state, do you see some of the other D1 schools in Pennsylvania like Pitt, or Penn coming on strong in the next few years; or are those just not as attractive of a program as Penn State?

I like seeing Wrestling grow, and hate seeing schools like Stanford dropping their programs.



Good luck in your matches tonight. I hope Starocci and Lee lose to us. However Brooks seems like a good kid, and to my own surprise, I plan to root for RBY, because I don't like Fix.

 

[billrag]

Not sure whether this answers your question or not, but Pennsylvania has had this sort of dominance in high school wrestling for a very long time, so if Penn or Pitt were planning to make a run, I'm not sure what they're waiting for. The fact is that PSU (or Iowa) can't take all of the good ones even though there's always some gnashing of teeth when someone "gets away", so there's plenty of talent for the Lehighs, Penns, Pitts and Clarions of the world.

 

[nitlion6]

Gavin IMO is doing a great job at Pitt and Pitt with the WPIAL surrounding the university is a sleeping giant. I doubt the administration has the foresight to commit to wrestling in a manner similar to PSU in 2010.

Penn is putting the pieces together at the top, and the infrastructure foundation to become a serious threat to Cornell, Princeton and Lehigh for EIWA supremacy.

 

[SUPERTODD]

They are definitely both weaker programs, but for different reasons. Penn has super high academic standards and is located in an area which is in love with basketball. In my opinion, Penn could more easily be a strong program. The model is there with Cornell being a top wrestling school and an Ivy league member. Cornell gets around a lot of the academic standards, by putting kids into some of their 'colleges within the university" which are actually state-funded and a fraction of the cost. To my knowledge, Penn has nothing like that.

Pitt's ceiling is always going to be as little brother in this state, at least as long as Cael is here and probably longer. There is a ton of talent in PA, as you stated, but they have the same issue as Michigan State or Cincinnati in football. They are going to get top talent from time to time, but unless the big dog in the state, self-handicaps, like hiring a Rich Rodriguez-type, they are never going to surpass big brother with any consistency.

Right now Penn State sits in the most talent rich state in the country, has the top coach in the nation, a super well-funded wrestling club AND has tradition. It would be great for the sport if Pitt or Penn could rise up and start dominating their respective conferences and start a rivalry with Penn State. I root for it, but do not expect it although I think Pitt has the right guy in place, so <fingers crossed>.

 

[PSUer1989]

I think Gavin will do a solid job, but until Pitt can beat out NC State and Virginia Tech consistently for local recruits, they won’t challenge for the ACC, much less the national title. They are having a good tournament this year though, and have a new facility coming. I would much rather see PA kids stay home.

 

[bigs22]

I think Gavin is doing really well at Pitt and they should continue improving. Their real problem to me is that top flight recruits in the area have Penn State and Ohio State not too far away. They are stuck in the middle of two higher level programs and that is a tough hill to climb over. They will get good guys because there are so many, but to really step it up they need to get the top level recruits that have too many options even if they want to stay close to home. Guys like Vincenzo, Sasso, Pletcher, Kemerer, Spencer, Nolf etc. I just have a hard time seeing them going there.

As far as Penn goes, I think they will be tough but they have too many obstacles. I just don’t think there are enough of the guys that want to do the Ivy thing and I just don’t see them being able to really sway top recruits who do want that away from Cornell.

Being in PA gives them a good floor and good potential to be very good consistently. But to reach that next level, you need those higher level recruits who are going to be in the semis for 3 or four years.

 

[amattaro]

OP, in terms you can understand: Penn State is John Deere, Penn and Pitt are Case.

 

[okinburg1]

They are definitely both weaker programs, but for different reasons. Penn has super high academic standards and is located in an area which is in love with basketball. In my opinion, Penn could more easily be a strong program. The model is there with Cornell being a top wrestling school and an Ivy league member. Cornell gets around a lot of the academic standards, by putting kids into some of their 'colleges within the university" which are actually state-funded and a fraction of the cost. To my knowledge, Penn has nothing like that.

Pitt's ceiling is always going to be as little brother in this state, at least as long as Cael is here and probably longer. There is a ton of talent in PA, as you stated, but they have the same issue as Michigan State or Cincinnati in football. They are going to get top talent from time to time, but unless the big dog in the state, self-handicaps, like hiring a Rich Rodriguez-type, they are never going to surpass big brother with any consistency.

Right now Penn State sits in the most talent rich state in the country, has the top coach in the nation, a super well-funded wrestling club AND has tradition. It would be great for the sport if Pitt or Penn could rise up and start dominating their respective conferences and start a rivalry with Penn State. I root for it, but do not expect it although I think Pitt has the right guy in place, so <fingers crossed>.

Cornell is the only Ivy League school with a state affiliation and it is true that those colleges within the university are less expensive, but certainly not cheap but any stretch. The admissions standards for those colleges are also quite high, in no small part because of the lower cost leading to a large number of NY state residents seeking admission. Athletes, especially fairly elite ones, will always be held to a different set of admissions standards than any non-athlete candidate for admission at every and any college across the country. When I was at Cornell in the late 80s it was a known fact that several hockey players would never have been admitted if they didn't play hockey very, very well.
That being said, Cornell has been good at wrestling for many years, at least since I was there. A friend of mine who wrestled was in the College of Arts and Sciences (NOT state related) and we also went to medical school together. So they have some tradition, at least within Ivy League wrestling.

 

[nerfstate]

Lehigh is really the #2 wrestling school in the state, though I could see Pitt passing them. We’ve had our troubles with small schools dropping support too. When I was a kid, Edinboro, Bloomsburg, Clarion, Lock Haven (still is) were all pretty dang strong. I was really torn in the 165 semi, because it would have been amazing for Bucknell to have a finalist (but obviously the Stanford storyline is also very compelling).

 

[RoarLions1]

With 11 D1 wrestling programs (out of 77 total) in Pennsylvania, and some PA talent leaving the state, it dilutes the talent. Frankly, if it weren't for Cael arriving in 2009, Penn State would likely still be a solid top-5 program, but not nearly as successful as the past 10 years.

Penn State
Lehigh
Penn
Drexel
Lock Haven
F&M
Pittsburgh
Clarion
Bloomsburg
Edinboro
Bucknell

 

[Raffycorn]

Don’t know much, but I know that Pitt is spending a bunch of money on a new arena and practice facility that wrestling will use. Right now they practice and have matches at a pretty run down field house that hasn’t been updated in decades. Looks pretty nice: https://hailtopitt.com/assets/pdf/VH_masterplan.pdf

 

[ptomaselli]

Iowa fan here. Not a troll post, a serious question.

Pennsylvania obviously has great talent. High School Wrestling is huge here in Iowa, but you guys clearly have more talent, and are a bigger state. We are very blessed to have guys from your state, like Lee and Kemerer.

My question is, with Pitt getting a guy in the finals for tonight, and such a large talent pool in your state, do you see some of the other D1 schools in Pennsylvania like Pitt, or Penn coming on strong in the next few years; or are those just not as attractive of a program as Penn State?

I like seeing Wrestling grow, and hate seeing schools like Stanford dropping their programs.



Good luck in your matches tonight. I hope Starocci and Lee lose to us. However Brooks seems like a good kid, and to my own surprise, I plan to root for RBY, because I don't like Fix.

Pitt actually has 2 guys in the finals Wentzel at 165 and Bonaccorsi at 197. Both are PA D7/WPIAL kids I believe.

This tournament could be a springboard towards getting the kids that choose Tobacco Road schools (NC State, UNC, UVA, VT) to think about an ACC option closer to home...like Pitt. Keith Gavin's doing a great job.

 

[MikeDerukey]

Pitt getting two kids in the finals is a pretty incredible turnaround for the program and a testament to coach Gavin.

PSU - 4 finalists
Iowa - 3 finalists
Pitt - 2 finalists
Oklahoma State - 2 finalists

Those are the only schools with more than one finalist this year.

 

[nittinsc]

Pitt actually has two in the finals, interestingly from two school districts that border each other. Hopefully their new facility will help since their current digs aren't anywhere near where it should be. Pitt probably trails PSU and Lehigh in alumni support by a wide margin. Losing a few PA kids to Ohio State is minor as there is a natural aversion to anything tOSU (or Ohio for that matter) in Western PA. Becoming a force in the ACC would be a big boost. Pitt has some disadvantage in regards to it's campus and doesn't compare well with PSU, Lehigh, Va Tech, etc. Probably not a big deal witih Western PA kids, but might be for some.

 

[MikeDerukey]

Pitt actually has two in the finals, interestingly from two school districts that border each other. Hopefully their new facility will help since their current digs aren't anywhere near where it should be. Pitt probably trails PSU and Lehigh in alumni support by a wide margin. Losing a few PA kids to Ohio State is minor as there is a natural aversion to anything tOSU (or Ohio for that matter) in Western PA. Becoming a force in the ACC would be a big boost. Pitt has some disadvantage in regards to it's campus and doesn't compare well with PSU, Lehigh, Va Tech, etc. Probably not a big deal witih Western PA kids, but might be for some.

Pitt has lost out to a lot of kids in their backyard over the years that were very good wrestlers. They are starting to keep some of the talent.

Nico Megaludis
Spencer Lee
Michael Kemrerer
Vincenzo Joseph
Jason Nolf
Carter Starocci
Gerrit Nijenhuis
Jimmy Guilibon
Luke Pletcher

Imagine if they could have landed half of those kids right from their back yard. The talent in western, Pa is there. Coach Gavin just has to be able to land it.

 

[CoastFan]

PA obviously has a lot of wrestling talent. Over the years, outstanding wrestlers from PA have gone to schools large and small, nearby and far away. PA high school wrestlers have won Division 1 NCAA national champions as far away as Cal State - Bakersfield and as small and local as Bloomsburg St.

PA NCAA Div 1 national champions have wrestled at 29 different colleges and universities. Surprisingly none have wrestled for Ohio State...so far.

That will change if Sammy Sasso wins tonight.

 

[LealandLoyal]

With 11 D1 wrestling programs (out of 77 total) in Pennsylvania, and some PA talent leaving the state, it dilutes the talent. Frankly, if it weren't for Cael arriving in 2009, Penn State would likely still be a solid top-5 program, but not nearly as successful as the past 10 years.

Penn State
Lehigh
Penn
Drexel
Lock Haven
F&M
Pittsburgh
Clarion
Bloomsburg
Edinboro
Bucknell

PA obviously has a lot of wrestling talent. Over the years, outstanding wrestlers from PA have gone to schools large and small, nearby and far away. PA high school wrestlers have won Division 1 NCAA national champions as far away as Cal State - Bakersfield and as small and local as Bloomsburg St.

PA NCAA Div 1 national champions have wrestled at 29 different colleges and universities. Surprisingly none have wrestled for Ohio State...so far.

That will change if Sammy Sasso wins tonight.

8 of us those 11 Pennsylvania colleges had NCAA qualifiers this year.

 

[PAgeologist]

Something that was mentioned above is tradition. You have someone like Steen passing on what was probably a decent scholarship at Pitt to go to PSU for what probably amounts to book money. I'm sure there are numerous others as well. Right now, Cael has the hot hand and there's a ton of kids that want a shot to crack that lineup and their families are willing for pony up the extra money to get them to PSU.

 

[Gobert21]

What I find interesting is only two PA kids started this year and their top two recruits coming in are from NJ (Van Ness) and MI (Facundo).

Over the years hey have had a lot of PA kids but are not so much so now.

 

[CurtisLoew40]

WVU finally has a coach and we’d love all the PA kids we can get lol

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Iowa fan here. Not a troll post, a serious question.

Pennsylvania obviously has great talent. High School Wrestling is huge here in Iowa, but you guys clearly have more talent, and are a bigger state. We are very blessed to have guys from your state, like Lee and Kemerer.

My question is, with Pitt getting a guy in the finals for tonight, and such a large talent pool in your state, do you see some of the other D1 schools in Pennsylvania like Pitt, or Penn coming on strong in the next few years; or are those just not as attractive of a program as Penn State?

I like seeing Wrestling grow, and hate seeing schools like Stanford dropping their programs.



Good luck in your matches tonight. I hope Starocci and Lee lose to us. However Brooks seems like a good kid, and to my own surprise, I plan to root for RBY, because I don't like Fix.

Pitt actually has 2 finalists, I believe (65 & 97).

 

[CoastFan]

This may have been noted elsewhere in all probability, but, just in case...

Seven of the 20 finalists are PA high school wrestlers.

 

[nittinsc]

There are four southwest PA kids in the finals, Iowa has two. Pitt has the other two that beat SW PA kids in the semi's.

https://triblive.com/sports/pitts-w...g-7-wpial-wrestlers-to-reach-ncaa-semifinals/

 

[SRATH]

PA has great high school wrestling, but kids will always follow coaches. Flynn moves to WVU, Edinboro implodes. I believe WVU improves....there is amazing talent in their backyard. Penn will be fine with the RTC and should help their program. More an more there are great wrestlers everywhere. Unfortunately, it is a money game and more and more teams simply don't have the resources to compete at the level. We mock Rutgers but if they keep one top Jersey at home every year, they would be pretty good and their performance would match their mouths.

 

[District four]

Lehigh is really the #2 wrestling school in the state, though I could see Pitt passing them. We’ve had our troubles with small schools dropping support too. When I was a kid, Edinboro, Bloomsburg, Clarion, Lock Haven (still is) were all pretty dang strong. I was really torn in the 165 semi, because it would have been amazing for Bucknell to have a finalist (but obviously the Stanford storyline is also very compelling).

The way lock haven is recruiting they are will be second best before long. They have a long tradition although several years ago but most kids in pa heard of lock haven wrestling. Excited to see where they go in relation to lehigh and pitt