Agree with u on pitt needing its own identity, especially with local talent on the decline. However, in an urban setting its a completely different animal. Pitt is part of pittsburgh, penn state is state college.. Pitt can have some successes if the leadership is right...Building a stadium really isnt much of an option for many reasons, of which many are independent of Pitt.. Pitt must own the WPIAL recruiting which helps establish at least a local identity.. Much more vital for pitt than psu. What most pitt and psu fans dont appreciate is the huge alumni base and fan base penn state has. PSU fans pretty much are the state of PA, while pitt is much smaller and much more regional in its fan base. If you took attendance at home games as a percentage of alumni and fan base the two teams would draw very much the same...Anyway back to your point of identity, I agree.. just more challenging in a major city..Cant wait for a game between the two. overdue!
Pitt
- Thread starter rocky_dog7
- Start date
I take a different viewpoint with regards to using current NFL players as a recruiting pitch to come to your school. Any school can rattle off a couple names of former players that are tearing it up in the NFL. Lowly Central Michigan can claim Antonio Brown, Joe Staley, and Eric Fisher(overall #1 pick in the draft a couple years ago). Should kids flock to CMU because they have a few studs in the NFL? Of course not. What is more important, is consistently having your guys drafted AND having a good percentage of these guys turn into starters/key contributors in the NFL. This is where Pitt has fallen short(in recent years). They have had 4 guys drafted in the last 4 drafts combined. That is not a ringing endorsement for Pitt to a current high school kid trying to decide what school he wants to attend. Also, does Pitt really have any non special team starters other than Fitz/Donald/Revis/McCoy? So, having 4-5 non special team starters in the NFL doesn't exactly scream "NFL Factory" to kids even if the ones that are starters are pro bowlers.
At any rate, the whole NFL thing does not appear to be helping Pitt much, if the last few years' recruiting results is any indication.
Whether Ann Arbor is nice, or whether a recruit even likes the campus is irrelevant to my point. When you mention Ann Arbor it's synonymous with UM (The University of Michigan). When you say East Lansing you think of MSU. When you say Columbus, OH you immediately think of the Buckeyes, the Scarlet and Gray, the bucknuts on the helmets, the Shoe, the band and the script O-H-I-O. When you mention Ann Arbor it drums up visions of the Big House, wing helmets, block M, the Michigan colors.
IT brings publicity to the school if it produces hall of fame type players.. Any school... Pitt for a school with mediocre team results have had their share of mega NFL superstars. Revis,Fitz, are legit HOF players... McCoy and Donald could be... Even in the horrible days Had a RB named Curtis Martin.... Have had more stars than PSU has... The point is one of exposure and publicity... Never said it was a football factory... please try to follow along with this... As far as last years recruits.. I havent seen any of them play yet... Conner wasnt a big star recruit, neither was Aaron Donald... but yet AD was as decorated a college lineman as there has ever been....... back to the original point very few schools claim as many HOF players as Pitt... look it up...
I agree. It definitely IS harder for Pitt because they're in Pittsburgh. That's really my point. It's why it's so much more important to have their own facilities, which I think is vital to Pitt recruiting better players. With all the professional sports teams in Pittsburgh it's really easy to get lost in all of it. I understand that building Pitt a stadium and exclusive football facilities seems next to impossible because of the location. That's a product of being located where they are located. That's a problem, and until they can find a way to make that happen I don't think Pitt will be able to develop enough of their own identity to draw the recruits they want. Sure, they'll grab the occasional stud, but that's not enough. I think they'll continue to miss out on top recruits in their back yard to PSU, OSU, and others. It's even harder to convince a kid that isn't from the area to come to Pitt. This takes me back to my original point in that the recruiting failures aren't on Narduzzi. It's not him. It's Pitt and their current circumstances.
Pitt having HOF players in the NFL doesn't set it apart from most other schools, though. It's just another school that has past players who have gone on to have great NFL careers. What about that makes Pitt different from OSU, or PSU? PSU has players who have gone on to have fantastic NFL careers, too. PSU has alumni who are HOF players. It's not something you can say, "hey look, this is unique to Pitt. THIS Is OUR identity." It's the case for pretty much every major school. To say, well Pitt has MORE HOF players than PSU isn't even noteworthy. PSU puts plenty of players in the NFL. That's the best any kid can hope for with NFL aspirations. If you look at current NFL rosters you'll find tons of former PSU players who are having fine careers.
You need something that sets your school apart from other schools when it comes to recruiting. Telling recruits you have players who went on to be NFL HOFers isn't unique and it doesn't set Pitt apart from any other school in division one.
Well, apparently having some superstar players in the NFL is a bigger deal in Pitt fans’ mind than it is in the eyes of high school kids given Pitt’s lack of recruiting success. I wouldn’t say Pitt has had “more” stars in the NFL than PSU has had over the years. Sure, they have 2 more HOFs but the NFL has been around for 100 years so 2 more hall of famers over a 100 year period hardly signifies that Pitt is a better place to go if they want to be “stars” in the NFL. Again, I believe showing a consistent pattern of producing high draft picks and having a decent amount of starters in the NFL plays a bigger role to high school kids when it comes time to decide which school they want to attend.
Narduzzi has found recruiting to Pitt to be very difficult. It is why you are starting to see Pitt go after kids who were suspended at other schools just so they can land a once upon a time 4 star. That reeks of desperation. Thus far, Narduzzi has borrowed the line from every coach who begins his first year recruiting at Pitt....."this time it's going to be different, support your hometown team, we are building something" The end result is some very talented kids (.i.e. Boyd and Conner) on some very mediocre teams. Why is that? It's because you can land every high level recruit in the Pittsburgh area and still struggle. Pitt does a lousy job of recruiting outside of a 30 mile radius. You can sell the hometown hero angle all you want, but the hometown heros in Pittsburgh are Sidney Crosby, Evgeny Malkin, Andrew Mccutchen, Ben Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown, Gerrit Cole, etc. They are not Pitt Panthers. No one, except for about 10,000 die hard area Pitt fans will care anything about you. If you want to be a hero, go to a college town and succeed. You're the only game in town and will be idolized.
recruiting at pitt is more difficult for sure, but relax a bit he hasn't even coached a game and going after Winfree may or may not be a good idea... Either way it is difficult and agree with you there..Doesnt mean it cant happen will just take time and more projects( i dont mean bad kids just athletes that need to add weight, change positions, etc.) Establishing a winning program in an urban environment is difficult... very few..I do think Narduzzi is a good fit and will win... ( 9 a year or so)... btw recruiting and stars are great but games are won on the field... Either way I agree with most of what you guys are saying... Sitting here right now if the two teams played this year, i bet it would be a pick em..Franklin doing a great job recruiting but we will see if that parlays to great teams... I do appreciate the give and take without so much of the internet BS you see so much of..
look it is what pitt has to sell....But if you run down a list of positions in the NFL many of the greatest are Pitt guys... Sell it, sell pittsburgh its what they need to do.. The single biggest problem at Pitt is the decline in overall Western pa talent...Hurts Pitt way more than PSU which owns the rest of the state and East Coast
agree but again its what pitt needs to sell... PSU has plenty of guys having fine careers, just not so many having great ones...Important mainly for WPIAL kids..
NFL Hall of Famers might be the big thing that Pitt can sell to recruits but apparently it isn’t winning a lot of kids over. Like another poster mentioned, having a decent list of NFL Hall of Famers doesn’t separate Pitt from most of the other major P5 programs. Sure, they have 2 more NFL HOF than PSU but do you really think a kid is going to attend Pitt simply because they have 8 HOF while PSU “only” has 6? Not sure what your distinction is between having a “fine’ NFL career versus a great one. PSU has a decent amount of high end NFL talent in the NFL right now (Wake, Lee, Hali, Bowman). Who knows if any of these guys will get into the NFL but they are all considered one of the best players in the NFL at their respective positions. I still think that getting players drafted high in the draft and showing that many of your former players turn into starters is a bigger selling point in recruiting. Getting into the NFL HOF is tough to do and it does require a little bit of luck. You simply can’t say player X made it into the HOF because he attended School X(as opposed to School Y).
you had me until you said getting into the HOF requires a little bit of luck...lol....I get your point. though going to the right school can aid in your development...
eyebugs....since most of these HOF's at Pitt have came from different coaching staffs can you tell us what the secret is at Pitt to these guys making the HOF.....is it?
A. O's fries?
B. Primanti's?
C. The water in Oakland?
D. Kennywood Park
A. O's fries?
B. Primanti's?
C. The water in Oakland?
D. Kennywood Park
Getting into the HOF most definitely involves some degree of luck. How many potential HOF careers ended prematurely because of a career ending injury? Even suffering a couple season ending injuries like ACL tears can impact a person’s ability to get into the HOF(especially for positions like RB that tend to have short shelf lives). Then, there is the type of team you play for. What if you are a great running back but you get drafted by a team that already has an entrenched starter at RB? That might mean the recently drafted player may not really get a chance to contribute until year 3 or 4 which will impact his career numbers(and potentially his chance to get in the HOF).
With all respect, let's just cut to the chase here. Some kids may like urban environments for football but they are few and far between. That has nothing to do with PSU or Pitt infighting- just the reality on the ground. What inner city schools have good football teams? USC is about it (depends how you classify OSU). Meanwhile there's Tuscaloosa, Baton Rouge, Gainesville, Clemson, Ann Arbor, Austin, State College, Madison, Auburn, Eugene, etc.
What Pitt fans really mean when they say the generic "some prefer urban campuses" is that hopefully they can get some local Pittsburgh area kids to stay home (either through wanting to play close to home or pressure from local high school coaches). They may get a few of them but they can't build a national title caliber program on that.
Other than USC and maybe OSU, I'm not sure what 'urban campus' teams are near the top of college football traditionally.
What Pitt fans really mean when they say the generic "some prefer urban campuses" is that hopefully they can get some local Pittsburgh area kids to stay home (either through wanting to play close to home or pressure from local high school coaches). They may get a few of them but they can't build a national title caliber program on that.
Other than USC and maybe OSU, I'm not sure what 'urban campus' teams are near the top of college football traditionally.
agree but miami had a damn good run... OSU doesnt apply because it is the major state university.. btw psu isnt national title caliber either
i get it kijana carter would have been a HOF ... right?... honestly i get your point but your reaching a bit here
Why am I reaching? You don't think a player having some unfortunate season ending injuries can cost him a shot at the HOF? The difference between getting into the HOF versus the Hall if Very Good can be very slight.
Miami is in Coral Gables - a nice suburb of Miami and certainly not an 'urban campus'. The campus is well defined and certainly far more like PSU than Pitt.
PSU isn't national title caliber now post sanctions but it's been far more relevant than Pitt the past 30-40 years. As for the future- who knows but I if they had to, I think most people would place their bets on PSU than Pitt.
Where did anybody say Kijana Carter would have been a HOFer? His career was certainly derailed when he tore his ACL, though. At the time an ACL tear meant you were probably done, and if you weren't, you weren't going to be anything close to what you were before. That was simply the reality of the injury 20 years ago. It wasn't just Kijana Carter, either. There were other guys who had their careers ruined by an ACL tear during that era as well.
With today's medicine you can come back from an ACL tear and be the player you were before. We have no idea what Kijana's NFL career would have been had he not torn his ACL.
Agree... PSU could be inferior to Pitt on the field but would be more relevant from a national attention standpoint... College football is alot of perception and PSU has a huge brand that Pitt and most other schools wont have...
I think your making waaayyy too big a deal out of HOF players. Pitt has 8 Penn State has 6. not that big a difference.
Besides most of the kids today wouldn't even know those guys.
True but pitt has two playing right now that every player knows about... FITZ and Revis
And, I think most people that watch the NFL know who Navorro Bowman, Sean Lee, Tamba Hali, and Cameron Wake are.
So what? At first I was taking you seriously, but at this point I just can't. In all seriousness, you're trying to hang your hat on two guys, and you're telling us that telling recruits Fitz and Revis went to Pitt is going to convince them to come to Pitt? If that's really what Pitt has to sell to these kids then Pitt is in big trouble.
I'm done holding back. Look, recruits don't care that Revis and Fitz went to Pitt. Or Shady. They couldn't care any less. It's irrelevant. It's peanuts in the recruiting game. You're not going to get a single solitary recruit based on it. Why do you think the school hasn't put up a sign that says "Larry Fitzgerald and Darrell Revis went to school here" on campus? If it's so great why not just put a sign up and watch the recruits coming rolling in? Because the staff even knows recruits don't care.
You're putting way, way, way too much stock in the fact that some good NFL players went to Pitt. Good NFL players have gone to every single school. Nobody cares.
And many others. What eyebugs is doing is the same thing the entire Pitt program does, which is to trade on the names of others. It's never about the University of Pittsburgh, it's always a sell using somebody else or something else. They try to sell the program by telling recruits they can practice next to the Steelers. They can play on the same field as the Steelers. They might see some Steelers around the facility. Eyebug tells you about how Fitz and Revis played at Pitt. I mean, at what point does Pitt sell Pitt, instead of someone or something else?
It's because Pitt has no identity. Their identity is always hitched to the coattails of someone else.
Completely disagree. Pitt is at least seventh fiddle behind Steelers, Kenny Chesney, Taylor Swift, Rolling Stones, One Direction and the USWNT (when they play Costa Rica).
I agree to a point. Those 2 are great players but c'mon all Fitz does is advertise for the online
school he graduated from I never hear him associated with Pitt. I would say McCoy before I would Fitz. Revis I agree with but I still think its mostly only kids from the WPIAL that know him.
It doesn't matter who is in the NFL, from Pitt. Their recruiting still sucks, and they are reduced to seeing their mouths water over Maryland's rejects.
Similar threads
