If the portal falls how most expect, they should be top 5 year one
Poll: Prediction for DT at OkSt
- Thread starter mcpat
- Start date
Right now OKST is 9th in returning points.
If they get only Hendrickson, they're 4th ahead of Arizona State.
If they get only Alirez, they're 3rd behind Ohio State and ahead of Nebraska.
If they get both, they're about +10 over Ohio State for 2nd.
Substitute Parco for Alirez, and those estimates become 4th and a virtual tie for 2nd.
The top 5 or 6 programs will likely be the same for a few more years. Iowa/PSU/Ohio St/Okie St/Cornell/Michigan ... throw in the occasional NC State or Iowa ST ...
DT's impact as a coach so far has been awesome for media coverage. My spoiled selfish self wants more of the head to heads - not fun watching 45-0 matches.
DT's impact as a coach so far has been awesome for media coverage. My spoiled selfish self wants more of the head to heads - not fun watching 45-0 matches.
Smith wanted to wrestle PSU every year and made a comment once that Cael is stingy with those OOC matchups. I would expect an occasional PSU v OSU home and away, but nothing that drastically alters the current working model that includes few (other than Lehigh) challenging head to heads outside of the Big10.
One thing that I have not seen mentioned is the academic requirements for admittance to OSU. The in standards can make a huge difference in who goes where.
Because it's invisible?
Let me make a minor correction here. THE top program will likely be the same for a few more years and the other 5 or 6 also rans will likely continue to be 2nd through 7th place. 😁
Ok St, despite being led by Fix, Olejnik, and Plott, were actually a very young team overall with Spratley, Jamison, Williams, Travis, and Thompson starting on either freshman or sophomore eligibility and Carroll and Hughes on redshirt. They have a lot of room for organic improvement (since many of these guys are very high level recruits). Add in Alirez and Hendrickson, and I think they are easily the favorite for second place. Even without them, if they get a boost from DT and the new regime, they could move up pretty significantly just with the guys they already have developing as they should with their pedigree.
I think back to the Gable coaching tree and remind myself Tom Ryan is by far the most successful coach outside of the guys who have coached at Iowa. And he has one title to his credit in Penn State's punt year. Pumping the brakes on the expectations for Taylor might be in order. I feel like OSU will be in the mix for 2-6 for a while and may be on the better side of that group in 4-5 years.
I think being a lesser academic school actually hurts more than it helps in recruiting.
I want to see DT succeed. He has seen the special sauce at PSU... but there is more. DT is a product of the special sauce and not the creator.
Also great to see the hype here. Good for the sport and the talking heads (to include a lot of those in forums).
There have been a lot of good coaches hyped going into their new job without great success - thus it isn't that easy.
As far as any bad mouthing - man, none of us can say we could do an interview and not have something come out wrong. Often what we mean is not what is said. Then, consider age, experience, mood, relationship to interviewer, etc., and you can get all kinds of responses. To jump on such words or phrases, and especially weigh them out and judge, is simply that - judging and getting away from the entertainment of sport.
Case in point - listen to DT. Was a good interview. Now take Tom Ryan's last interview on flow defending his comments... never really got to the point.
Also great to see the hype here. Good for the sport and the talking heads (to include a lot of those in forums).
There have been a lot of good coaches hyped going into their new job without great success - thus it isn't that easy.
As far as any bad mouthing - man, none of us can say we could do an interview and not have something come out wrong. Often what we mean is not what is said. Then, consider age, experience, mood, relationship to interviewer, etc., and you can get all kinds of responses. To jump on such words or phrases, and especially weigh them out and judge, is simply that - judging and getting away from the entertainment of sport.
Case in point - listen to DT. Was a good interview. Now take Tom Ryan's last interview on flow defending his comments... never really got to the point.
I agree and will add that watching someone do something special, even repeatedly, doesn't mean you'll be able to duplicate their success.
If I ate at Benihana every day for a year and then went home and tried to be a teppanyaki chef, I guarantee you stuff is getting burned and people are getting cut.
Kind of not fair to DT whose wrestling accolades far exceed Ryan. It’s the biggest hire since Cael, the biggest non-Cael hire since Brands, at one of the Big Three schools (of which PSU only became one recently) with the kind of funding needed to make it successful.
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The thing about my belief in DT being a good coach is that while I think having learned from Cael helps, I think he’s gonna be a good coach because I believe in David Taylor being a good coach beyond the scope of Cael Sanderson.
I agree and will add that watching someone do something special, even repeatedly, doesn't mean you'll be able to duplicate their success.
If I ate at Benihana every day for a year and then went home and tried to be a teppanyaki chef, I guarantee you stuff is getting burned and people are getting cut.
DT is very fortunate to have a strong financial backing for his program. It will take him some time to achieve the success that he envisions.
And his biggest drawback is he will be forced to compete against Cael & Co.
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I wouldn't be shocked if DT takes a page out of Cael's book and punts 2025-2026. He can redshirt Plott and Hamiti and wait to bring in Lockett.
OK ST has always recruited Pa pretty good Goeff Baum is one good example 2 time champ
2025, right?
I wouldn't be surprised if one shirts but would be surprised if both do. Thompson was pressed into duty last year and needs to shirt.
Also, if Lockett outgrows 165, then shirting either of the seniors causes issues in 2026.
There were a lot of Iowa wrestlers in the Gable coaching tree that had much better wrestling accolades than Ryan and didn't do as well coaching as Ryan. And Ryan had the advantage of a HC job at Hofstra to learn the trade before he went to tOSU.
Add the fact that Cael is still at PSU (for a while, presumably) and it's could be a tough row to hoe for DT. I expect some bumps along the way.
We will not be threatened by OKST if David follows my plan. No sabotage, just incompetence.
Joey Wildasin. Can't believe how much weight Smith asked him to cut.
I think DT is in for a few years of struggles. I think they are solidly top 7, but it won’t be easy unless he kills it in the portal.
The last 2 huge hires of the past 20 years, Cael and Brands, had several advantages that DT doesn’t. Both were assistants and then head coaches before landing the top tier job. This experience with college coaching bureaucracy had to help. DT doesn’t have that. Plus, his staff so far has one guy who was at best the #4 guy at PSU. I think Taylor’s last assistant coach hire needs to be a guy that has been a coach in college for 15 to 20 years.
Cael and Brands also had a previous job that brought another benefit. Both were able to bring current athletes and recruits with them to their new job. Brands was able to bring the “double recruiting class” to Iowa that lead to three straight titles. Cael was able to bring his brother, DT, and ultimately Andrew long from ISU to PSU.
The only base that Taylor can draw from is M2. You’re talking about high school kids that we have no idea if they’ll be college studs or not. Even if they are, that’s several years away. It’s also probably not the best situation that your only base to draw from that has experience with you is located a 1,000 miles away and only few miles from Penn State.
I’m not saying Taylor will fail, but the people who think this is a slam dunk hire are naïve. It’s going to be long, hard work. Maybe the Cowboys have enough NIL money to just buy some championships, but it hasn’t worked so well for Michigan.
The last 2 huge hires of the past 20 years, Cael and Brands, had several advantages that DT doesn’t. Both were assistants and then head coaches before landing the top tier job. This experience with college coaching bureaucracy had to help. DT doesn’t have that. Plus, his staff so far has one guy who was at best the #4 guy at PSU. I think Taylor’s last assistant coach hire needs to be a guy that has been a coach in college for 15 to 20 years.
Cael and Brands also had a previous job that brought another benefit. Both were able to bring current athletes and recruits with them to their new job. Brands was able to bring the “double recruiting class” to Iowa that lead to three straight titles. Cael was able to bring his brother, DT, and ultimately Andrew long from ISU to PSU.
The only base that Taylor can draw from is M2. You’re talking about high school kids that we have no idea if they’ll be college studs or not. Even if they are, that’s several years away. It’s also probably not the best situation that your only base to draw from that has experience with you is located a 1,000 miles away and only few miles from Penn State.
I’m not saying Taylor will fail, but the people who think this is a slam dunk hire are naïve. It’s going to be long, hard work. Maybe the Cowboys have enough NIL money to just buy some championships, but it hasn’t worked so well for Michigan.
I’ll bet you.
I say DT had OkSt as (at least) runner ups within the next three NCAA championships (2025, 2026 or 2027).
You say that doesn’t happen.
I win: You donate $50 to NLWC
You win: I donate $50 to NLWC
The only way nil money helps the cowboys is if half our team goes in the portal. I don't see enough top level guys in the portal that can beat PSU. Even if you made a team out of all portal guys is there enough good wrestlers to compete with our team? Food for thought lol
Kennedy was also an assistant at Northwestern for 3 years -- so he has dealt with a college bureaucracy that was at best lukewarm to the program. Besides, #4 at any program matters less than duties. Coleman Scott would be the #4 if hired to replace Kennedy.
That's not to say Kennedy has sufficient admin experience -- only that we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. Maybe we should lean on our reporters to weigh in about his responsibilities at PSU.
I do think one more experienced coach is a good idea -- not necessarily for admin, but more to help Taylor and Gilman avoid mistakes in other areas (culture setting, recruiting, fundraising, alumni/fan relations, etc.). Don't know that 15-20 years is necessary, but probably more than 10.
I never said it would not happen. I said they are clearly top 7. I just think fans are acting like DT instantly vaults OSU into the #2 program with a snap of the fingers. Or they are a threat to PSU anytime soon. I think it’s not that easy. If DT was coming from say NCST and bringing 3-4 established college wrestlers with him, and a few recruits who were already committed to him, I’d expect more.
As far as the bet, one runner up in 3 years seems like a low bar in the portal era. With all the money OSU is supposedly spending, I’d consider 1 runner up finish a let down.
I’d gladly bet they don’t get 2 runner up finishes in 3 years.
I’m not going to make that bet. And I misunderstood the first sentence of your OP if you won’t take mine (“I think DT is in for a few years of struggles.”).
If you’re from Erie East, then I’m sure you remember Baum beating Fletcher Carr in the state finals in 1967. I saw that match at Rec Hall although I don’t remember any details.
going to be hard to compare coaching regimens these days as the landscape has changed. If you have bags of $$ available then there is a whole new level of a field. At 18, $$ and chasing a dream is everything. With $$, the words from a perspective coach may mean a lot more 
I don't know. It seems Bobby Telford struggles to give away slumlord's cash bags. Speaking of which, has that field been leveled yet?going to be hard to compare coaching regimens these days as the landscape has changed. If you have bags of $$ available then there is a whole new level of a field. At 18, $$ and chasing a dream is everything. With $$, the words from a perspective coach may mean a lot more
yes I think Fletch got beat twice in the finals I cant remember the other kids name but they were both close matches!!Baum ended up 2 time NCAA champ the other kid I dont know!
It's really hard for me to say how much digging a hole equates to leveling a field.
(If you haven't heard, the new Iowa wrestling dungeon is below grade.)
Cael is still Cael
Not sure how many of our current starters came to PsU for DT
they come for Cael , Cody and Casey , plus RTC
Not sure how many of our current starters came to PsU for DT
they come for Cael , Cody and Casey , plus RTC
