Processing dead weight?

[fkkkjm]

i am torn on if we should pull the Urban/Harbaugh and start processing the dead wood - brosnan, sorrel, wright come
To mind. Just thinking guys that if these guys can't beat out Gaia, Dowrey after 3 years, they just aren't B10 caliber players....

Thoughts?

 

[BBrown]

i am torn on if we should pull the Urban/Harbaugh and start processing the dead wood - brosnan, sorrel, wright come
To mind. Just thinking guys that if these guys can't beat out Gaia, Dowrey after 3 years, they just aren't B10 caliber players....

Thoughts?

No!!!!!.,
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!,
no!!!!!!!!!!!
is that succinct enough for you.

 

[Nitt1300]

that's not who we are

 

[AWS1022]

i am torn on if we should pull the Urban/Harbaugh and start processing the dead wood - brosnan, sorrel, wright come
To mind. Just thinking guys that if these guys can't beat out Gaia, Dowrey after 3 years, they just aren't B10 caliber players....

Thoughts?

And let's start over signing, then we can start taking kids who can't read...hey let's start recruiting the Mississippi JuCo league for players. Let's start encouraging boosters to give money like Miami did for years. After all, it's just about winning football games. The requirement for our next coach will be they must have prior NCAA sanctions to prove they are willing to do what it takes to win.

 

[garw]

CJF wants these kids to be prepared to graduate in 3.5 years. What does that tell you?

 

[fkkkjm]

Ha. Then we need to temper our expectations against the Scums, OSU's and Alabamans of the world. How many coaches has Notre dame driven off trying to be elite with academic standards?

Franklin gets it, but we can't expect 11-1 or
12-0 in the near future unless we are willing to sell our souls.

 

[chiro31]

that's not who we are

It is time some of these kids are never going to contribute... Hate to say that but it is the truth. Do you want to win or be a Northwestern? I am worn out on losing.

 

[sss]

Do both. Stanford does it. The guys you mention by name have been on campus 1 or 2 years. OL take time to develop with very few exceptions. The depth is building.

 

[Nitt1300]

It is time some of these kids are never going to contribute... Hate to say that but it is the truth. Do you want to win or be a Northwestern? I am worn out on losing.

If we're going to throw away our values, I hope we never win another game.

 

[mn78psu83]

If we're going to throw away our values, I hope we never win another game.

PSU can keep its values and win some games.

 

[chiro31]

PSU can keep its values and win some games.

We have some guys on that '14 class that will
Never ever see the field, ever. I am sick of losing. CJF, do not kid yourself the pressure is on.

 

[mn78psu83]

We have some guys on that '14 class that will
Never ever see the field, ever. I am sick of losing. CJF, do not kid yourself the pressure is on.

So be it. The pressure is on all major college coaches. Sounds like you are the one who is crumbling under the weight of it. I hope he isn't.

 

[sss]

Every class has kids that will never contribute. We have had plenty of 4 stars that never sniffed the field. They get 4 years of scholarship, as long as they succeed academically and off the field. Never guaranteed a 5th year. That should not change. You can win lots and lots of games with this model, and we will.

 

[Lion8286]

CJF wants these kids to be prepared to graduate in 3.5 years. What does that tell you?

Tells me he wants them to graduate in 3.5 years.

 

[mn78psu83]

Ha. Then we need to temper our expectations against the Scums, OSU's and Alabamans of the world. How many coaches has Notre dame driven off trying to be elite with academic standards?

Franklin gets it, but we can't expect 11-1 or
12-0 in the near future unless we are willing to sell our souls.

Those expectations were tempered a while ago. PSU - in spite of playing tOSU tough 2 years ago - has not been in the same ballpark as either Alabama or tOSU for a good many seasons now. Long way to catch up too. UM hasn't been elite for a while either. Harbaugh will get them there in a hurry though.

 

[Nashville Lion]

These kids are contributing in practice and scout team and other ways. I don't want to see kids get thrown away.

 

[McNit2]

Do both. Stanford does it. The guys you mention by name have been on campus 1 or 2 years. OL take time to develop with very few exceptions. The depth is building.

I agree - the Stanford way used to be considered the Penn State way!

Depth - we only have two serviceable OLineman.

 

[Tweedbear]

If we go down the path of "processing dead wood" what are we? We are what Erickson said we were not what Joe envisioned.

For those of you in such a quandary about Franklin check out Joe's first two years. He wasn't saddled with sanctions and most of the prayers were his recruits.

 

[Tweedbear]

One further comment everyone professes a desire for accountability. Well the coach has accountability and responsibility for his recruits. Coaches live with their evaluations not throw away young men who believed them.

 

[Ranger Dan]

i am torn on if we should pull the Urban/Harbaugh and start processing the dead wood - brosnan, sorrel, wright come
To mind. Just thinking guys that if these guys can't beat out Gaia, Dowrey after 3 years, they just aren't B10 caliber players....

Thoughts?

I really wish there was a dislike option... Who knows how close any of these guys are to cracking the line up? We fans certainly don't have a clue. Also, we need capable depth to be able to practice in a meaningful way. I think the only acceptable way to handle guys who aren't ever going to contribute in a meaningful way (and I'm not saying who will or will not) is to have a talk with them about their future and let them know that they don't have much of a shot at playing time. In some cases, it may trigger a spark that had previously been missing and they could do the work to transform their careers. In other cases, maybe they decide to move on to a G5, 1AA, or Div II school in hopes of being a better fit. Worst case, you have a few players who stay because they are loyal to the team, their teammates, and the school, and these guys get a quality education and become productive members of society. I don't think that is such a bad option.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Obviously, PSU was in a truly unique situation........a couple years of recruiting where they were severely limited and crippled by the sanctions - and had to work like hell just to try to get commitments from guys with marginal D1 talent - - - - and then immediately after the lifting of the sanctions, and bringing in a very productive recruiting staff, seeing the doors opened to high end prospects.

As the roster was initially filling up (2013) numbers were not an issue.....but they have been the last few years (couldn't have kept everyone on the roster, and still brought in 70 recruits the last 3 years)

This unique situation led to having some guys on the roster who were most certainly not the athletic equal to the "high ceiling" guys that they could now in 2015/2016.

That should be stated up front - - - because it was a VERY unique situation, and likely will not be the norm moving forward.


With that context in mind:

It would be very disingenuous to think that "roster management" is a foreign concept to PSU.
Despite the mouth-breather chest thumpers who will say "WeAre" and that PSU would never stoop so low.....it is big-time college football....and while each program had its relative strengths and weaknesses, it is what it is.

Jake Kiley
Daquan Davis
Jon Warner
Kasey Gaines
Anthony Smith
etc

Each story - each kid's situation - is somewhat unique. For sure. But the numbers are the numbers.
Is PSU more "legit" in this arena than the large majority of big-time programs? I hope so. I think so.
But it is a very "relative" deal.

Was anyone upset that some of those guys listed above were no longer on the roster?

Would folks have been upset if PSU instead had said "sorry, we're full" to guys like, just as a for instance, Shareef Miller, Garrett Taylor, and Kevin Givens?

 

[21Guns]

Absolutely not. Our problems are not about the need to process players. Our problems involve on field personnel DECISIONS by the staff, not processing. We are Penn State, we don't process players. That is Urban Meyer and Jim Harbaugh, and the SEC.

 

[Peetz Pool Boy]

PSU can keep its values and win some games.

In "michnittlion" vernacular, can you define "some"?

On a scale of 0 to 12 would be helpful for those of us playing along at home

 

[mn78psu83]

In "michnittlion" vernacular, can you define "some"?

On a scale of 0 to 12 would be helpful for those of us playing along at home

This year - I think PSU wins 7 at most. Hope I'm wrong. Future years, who knows? PSU has a ways to go to measure up to the best in college football. If CJF gets that done in the next 3 years, he'll be lauded.

 

[21Guns]

This year - I think PSU wins 7 at most. Hope I'm wrong. Future years, who knows? PSU has a ways to go to measure up to the best in college football. If CJF gets that done in the next 3 years, he'll be lauded.

7 would be a miracle. 5 is most likely.

 

[mmp121]

Ha. Then we need to temper our expectations against the Scums, OSU's and Alabamans of the world. How many coaches has Notre dame driven off trying to be elite with academic standards?

Franklin gets it, but we can't expect 11-1 or
12-0 in the near future unless we are willing to sell our souls.

Did Iowa sell their souls to go 12-0 last year?

 

[buckeyecurt]

You cannot win consistently in major college football if you treat football players like student athletes first. Today, college football is the NFL Developmental League & if you don't run the program that way (like Urban, Saban, Harbaugh, etc) you will have to settle for being an 8 win program with the occasional bigger season when stars align and schedules are favorable (Iowa 2015).

Stanford is the notable exception but that's because if there are 150 really smart kids who happen to be great football players, 100 of them end up at Stanford. They get the picks of the litter because of who they are. Any school who points to them as the example of what they hope to be, will be wildly disappointed.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

CJF wants these kids to be prepared to graduate in 3.5 years. What does that tell you?

He wants all kids to graduate in 3.5 years IIRC.

 

[AWS1022]

Did Iowa sell their souls to go 12-0 last year?

Iowa doesn't have OSU, UM and MSU in their division...if they did, they wouldn't have sold their soul to go 9-3.

 

[chrisrn1965]

You cannot win consistently in major college football if you treat football players like student athletes first. Today, college football is the NFL Developmental League & if you don't run the program that way (like Urban, Saban, Harbaugh, etc) you will have to settle for being an 8 win program with the occasional bigger season when stars align and schedules are favorable (Iowa 2015).

Stanford is the notable exception but that's because if there are 150 really smart kids who happen to be great football players, 100 of them end up at Stanford. They get the picks of the litter because of who they are. Any school who points to them as the example of what they hope to be, will be wildly disappointed.

And that my friend is the difference between PSU and OSU.

 

[kijana]

Do both. Stanford does it. The guys you mention by name have been on campus 1 or 2 years. OL take time to develop with very few exceptions. The depth is building.

When did Stanford win a national championship or even get into the 4 team Playoffs?

 

[AWS1022]

And that my friend is the difference between PSU and OSU.

According to some on this board, there is no difference. According to some Penn State has no standards and will take anyone just like even the worst of the SEC teams. After all, this is a Penn State board where people come to trash their own program.

 

[colt21]

CJF wants these kids to be prepared to graduate in 3.5 years. What does that tell you?

That's a plan I can live with - you graduate them it is NOT processing.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

That's a plan I can live with - you graduate them it is NOT processing.

If that were the case..........

Sayin' so, don't make it so

(Even if you say it a lot, even if you say it LOUDLY)

 

[buckeyecurt]

And that my friend is the difference between PSU and OSU.

And that's perfectly fine to want to do it differently than OSU, Bama, etc. But if that's the case, quit complaining about CJF and give him a lifetime contract because 8-9 wins will be the ceiling. It's a different world in college football and these are minor league athletes not student athletes at the most successful programs. If you want student athletes and don't want to play by the big boy methods, you just have to understand where the ceiling is located and lower the expectations on your coach.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

And that's perfectly fine to want to do it differently than OSU, Bama, etc. But if that's the case, quit complaining about CJF and give him a lifetime contract because 8-9 wins will be the ceiling. It's a different world in college football and these are minor league athletes not student athletes at the most successful programs. If you want student athletes and don't want to play by the big boy methods, you just have to understand where the ceiling is located and lower the expectations on your coach.

Please.......someone........put the lid back on the Idiot Box.

They are out running loose again.

 

[buckeyecurt]

Please.......someone........put the lid back on the Idiot Box.

They are out running loose again.

You can sling insults if you want, but I'd prefer to have a real dialogue. I simply believe that some fans (of all teams) are afraid to admit what it takes to win nowadays.

I am clearly a Buckeye fan. I have come to expect 10+ wins, a major bowl, playoff appearance every two or three years, and tons of players put into the NFL. I also am 100% aware that those of us who have expectations like that in 2016 have to understand that we probably wouldn't like all the ways that the sausage is made.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

You can sling insults if you want, but I'd prefer to have a real dialogue. I simply believe that some fans (of all teams) are afraid to admit what it takes to win nowadays.

I am clearly a Buckeye fan. I have come to expect 10+ wins, a major bowl, playoff appearance every two or three years, and tons of players put into the NFL. I also am 100% aware that those of us who have expectations like that in 2016 have to understand that we probably wouldn't like all the ways that the sausage is made.

And you have now enlightened us with Buckeye Fan-Boy wisdom three times (in this thread alone).

You about done yet? Time to go home?

Maybe we just aren't capable of absorbing that Buckeye "genius stuff".....or maybe its something else?

 

[Agoodnap]

Every class has kids that will never contribute. We have had plenty of 4 stars that never sniffed the field. They get 4 years of scholarship, as long as they succeed academically and off the field. Never guaranteed a 5th year. That should not change. You can win lots and lots of games with this model, and we will.

Actually, they get 4 years OR a degree, whichever comes first. Since CJF is pushing 3 years to graduate that would allow him to move the non-contributors who've graduated off the team. Let's review how they can graduate in 3 years:
Summer 1 6 credits <<==2nd session
Fall 1 12 credits
Spring 1 16 credits
Summer 2 12 credits
Fall 2 12 credits
Spring 2 16 credits
Summer 3 12 credits
Fall 3 12 credits
Spring 3 16 credits
Summer 4 6 credits <<==1st session

Total 120 credits after 3 years. Easy, no, but possible.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Actually, they get 4 years OR a degree, whichever comes first. Since CJF is pushing 3 years to graduate that would allow him to move the non-contributors who've graduated off the team. Let's review how they can graduate in 3 years:
Summer 1 6 credits <<==2nd session
Fall 1 12 credits
Spring 1 16 credits
Summer 2 12 credits
Fall 2 12 credits
Spring 2 16 credits
Summer 3 12 credits
Fall 3 12 credits
Spring 3 16 credits
Summer 4 6 credits <<==1st session

Total 120 credits after 3 years. Easy, no, but possible.

120?

For a Bachelors?

I don't have the full list in front of me......but I took a quick look at a dozen or so different degrees, and only found two that could yield a Bachelors with 120 or fewer credits (AfAmStudies and Communications)....I suppose there are more, but probably not many meaningful degrees

Of course, that also assumes that the incoming StudAthlete does not have to bulk up on any basic courses (that don't count towards the degree requirements) such as entry-level Math, English etc.
That is not the case for a significant chunk of incoming StudAthletes (at PSU, or anywhere else.....though probably less so at PSU than many other Universities)

Bachelors in 3? Possible? Yes

But it is VERY difficult unless the StudAthlete either:

A - is in a VERY low "required credits" major
and/or
B - comes in with significant AP credit already in hand from their work in High School.
and/or
C - can handle a relatively full load (15 credits) during the fall semester....which is tough for all but the brightest and most time-disciplined kids