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PSU bans Beta and puts huge restrictions on Greek Life

Spoke to my daughter who is in the greek system at PSU when this came out......

Some of the national chapters are going to fight PSU on the non rush in the fall......many of the houses need a certain number of students to be living in the house in order to not lose significant amount of money for the fraternity. Rush was stopped in the spring, no rush in the fall, so Sophomores who did not rush their freshman year get short changed as the only available time to rush was in the fall of their sophomore year....if they missed that window they will not join a sorority or fraternity in the spring of their junior year....

The cutting down on the partying was expected the stopping any new members for a year will hurt many of the organizations. My daughter said that her friends do feel that PSU loves the greek students and the energy that they put into Football Games, THON, Greek week, and Arts Festival attendance, but are taking this opportunity to punish the organizations that had nothing to do what happened at BETA.

Since the increase in scrutiny many of the greek students have been leaving campus and driving to other campuses, my daughter told me about some of her friends driving to Bucknell, Cornell, Maryland and WV.....which is probably much more dangerous than staying on campus and walking to parties to drink.

Being Greek at PSU was an important part of my experience and the lasting friendships that continue decades later. there is no surprise that the admin is typical of any academic institution painting a broad brush of anything they don't like or is against their agenda or narrative. The Greek system contributes in many major ways to the university community. As with anything, some of it bad unfortunately.

The changes made have been too draconian. There should have been more discussion with the student leadership and a better thought out plan. The rush aspects will be a major challenge. In my view, a better solution would have been to stop first semester freshmen from rushing and to allow for all other rush to continue. Most houses have mortgages or other debt to service. The loss of members will create financial challenges of organizations that are already challenged financially.

If the current Greeks want to make a statement to the university as to their worth in the university community, they should step away from homecoming this year. Just drop all activities related to homecoming. No parade, no homecoming week events, etc. Let the university be forced to scramble to recover a big weekend for alums. This will send a strong message.
 
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From fake researchers, using fake methods and fake funding, no doubt. That argument doesn't really make a dent with the University.

I am well aware that the University probably relies on phony data. After all, PSU unfortunately was the home of fraudulent client-change data.

Without a doubt, the statistics the University is "relying on" to advance some administrator's social justice agenda against fraternities was generated by a biased researcher, using outcome-determinative testing and a pool of respondents selected to give responses consistent with the pollster's agenda. This is how academics roll. Probably defined "sexual assault" as "unwanted flirting."
 
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Being Greek at PSU was an important part of my experience and the lasting friendships that continue decades later. there is no surprise that the admin is typical of any academic institution painting a broad brush of anything they don't like or is against their agenda or narrative. The Greek system contributes in many major ways to the university community. As with anything, some of it bad unfortunately.

The changes made have been too draconian. There should have been more discussion with the student leadership and a better thought out plan. The rush aspects will be a major challenge. In my view, a better solution would have been to stop first semester freshmen from rushing and to allow for all other rush to continue. Most houses have mortgages or other debt to service. The loss of members will create financial challenges of organizations that are already challenged financially.

If the current Greeks want to make a statement to the university as to their worth in the university community, they should step away from homecoming this year. Just drop all activities related to homecoming. No parade, no homecoming week events, etc. Let the university be forced to scramble to recover a big weekend for alums. This will send a strong message.
You assume that the University cares about the alumni- I'm unconvinced.
 
If the current Greeks want to make a statement to the university as to their worth in the university community, they should step away from homecoming this year. Just drop all activities related to homecoming. No parade, no homecoming week events, etc. Let the university be forced to scramble to recover a big weekend for alums. This will send a strong message.

Either that, or the DTX Deathmobile.
 
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You assume that the University cares about the alumni- I'm unconvinced.

As am I. Most senior university administrators are like Vickey Triponey--overpaid bureaucrats out to advance their personal social justice agendas so they can pad their resumes for the next job interview.
 
So don't do rush. Just have people sign up and join the house. If you need members then change the process of adding new members. Have a recruitment drive that doesn't revolve around hazing and trial by fire and excluding people who don't fit their predetermined idea of someone who belongs there. Just have people show up and admit them. Cowardly would be backing down from the embarrassments that fraternities have brought to the University community. They'll have to change the way they do business or go out of business.

Did Rush change or something???? Back in the early 70s, Rushees were never, and I mean EVER "hazed". Whatever "hazing" that was done was done the following term when you pledged. You NEVER pledged the same term as you "Rushed".

If ANYONE in our House ever, and I mean EVER said a mean word to a Rushee, you would be put on Social Probation for however long the incident warranted. And it was the same at every other House that tried to recruit me. In fact, it WAS like football recruiting. Houses would wine you and dine you and compete to get you. It was a two way street.

If I would have ever been invited to a House as a Rushee, and treated poorly, you think I would be brain dead stupid enough to ever go back? Heck no. There was too much competition between the Houses. ESPECIALLY if you were an athlete that could help them in IMs, or had something else of substance to offer (back then, you could participate in any IM sport that you weren't on scholarship in or participated at the NCAA level in ).

You realize how stupid it would be to "just have people show up and admit them"???? Do you forget that the Brothers, both undergrad and alumni, are responsible for all the upkeep and expenses for the House? Do you think we wanted any Tom, Dick, or Harry off the street that was only going to occupy a bed and pay a House fee?

In Rushing, we tried to weed out as best we could all the potential drug addicts (back then, anything more than alcohol was a strict no no), dead beats ( we needed guys that would be responsible enough to upkeep things like the administration, catering, and maintenance of the House), and losers ( we wanted guys that could actually get along with other people and showed potential initiative). If we would have "just had people show up and admit them", the Houses would have fallen apart years ago. Especially considering the ages of most of the Houses.

Sorry, but my experiences were that guys (and girls) that had to go through the Greek selection process were on the whole, FAR AND AWAY more active in University and philanthropist activities than the average Penn State student was. I know for myself, not so much the Rushing process where you are wined and dined, but the pledging process which involves the "hazing" as you call it, was what literally married me to the House forever.

If you don't have to actually work to achieve a goal, then that achieved goal doesn't mean nearly as much to you. Something has to become physically and emotionally important to you for you to be willing to sacrifice your time and services voluntarily. If I wouldn't have actually had to work, or been "hazed" as you call it to earn my right to be a Brother, do you think it would mean squat to me 45 years later? I doubt it.
 
Did Rush change or something???? Back in the early 70s, Rushees were never, and I mean EVER "hazed". Whatever "hazing" that was done was done the following term when you pledged. You NEVER pledged the same term as you "Rushed".

Yes, at least in terms of what you described. I think there are a couple of frats that have a longer rush/pledge schedule, but for the most part rushing and pledging at PSU frats take place in one semester.

As for hazing, pretty much all of the Nationals have a no-hazing policy. The chapters usually have "work" requirements, like cleaning the house every day, working the parties, etc. Some throw in other requirements that are either team building or hazing, depending on your perspective.
 
Data collected from the University show that women involved in greek life are 50% more likely to experience sexual assault and males are 62% more likely to commit sexual assault compared to the rest of the University.

Now that's beyond funny. : ^ ) Where do you think all the hottest girls go on Friday and Saturday nights??? The apartments and dorms????? Not when I went to school.

My experience at the Fraternities was that there was at least some form of self policing. Not so much at the apartments or other parties.

It was always drilled in us during pledging to respect women so you don't embarrass the House. One of the purposes of the Rushing process, that you despise so much, was to weed through all the potential derilects that might possibly embarrass us down the road. Girls aren't stupid. They know this. That's why they came.
 
Was never in a fraternity at State, so please don't take my post as anti-Greek. All due respect to those here who were Greek, but could it be that this is part of a trend (and not just at PSU)? Considering the vast majority of students are not in a frat/sorority, would a decline in Greek life ultimately matter? Again, since I never took part in one, I just don't know.
Yes, but what if the reason Greek involvement is declining is the University's long-running effort to deemphasize and weaken them? That isn't a trend, it is social engineering. Universities have been anti-fraternity for the past 25-30 years, ever since baby-boomers started running them.
 
Yes, at least in terms of what you described. I think there are a couple of frats that have a longer rush/pledge schedule, but for the most part rushing and pledging at PSU frats take place in one semester.

As for hazing, pretty much all of the Nationals have a no-hazing policy. The chapters usually have "work" requirements, like cleaning the house every day, working the parties, etc. Some throw in other requirements that are either team building or hazing, depending on your perspective.

Interesting. Why would they have changed it? Because they aren't on the Quarter system anymore?

I will agree that Rushing and Pledging the same term isn't something I am totally in favor of. In fact, in my case, I had absolutely no intention of EVER joining a Fraternity. I didn't think I would have the time and had bought into all the stereotypes.

It took a full year of different Houses trying to get me to join for me to finally accept a bid. I kept saying no. In fact, I never went through just a formal "Rush". Just guys inviting me to parties, dinners, and functions over the course of the year trying to get me to join. Took me till the end of Spring Term my first year to finally accept a bid.

What finally convinced me was realizing that if I wanted to be around the hottest looking girls on campus, I better join a Fraternity. And I will admit, I decided on the House that seemed to attract the best and hottest looking girls on the Planet ! : ^ )
 
Yes, but what if the reason Greek involvement is declining is the University's long-running effort to deemphasize and weaken them? That isn't a trend, it is social engineering. Universities have been anti-fraternity for the past 25-30 years, ever since baby-boomers started running them.
You may very well be right, but remember - today's college student is a different animal. They're from the "participation trophy" era, and highly selective institutions like fraternities/sororities might just be less appealing to a highly entitled generation.
 
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That beautifully renovated house would make a great b.o.t. retreat. Or maybe a new PSU Center for Business Development.
 
Then state the facts..you can't just say his info isn't factual if that is the info that was reported and have no other facts to counter.
He was not left alone for twelve hours while a party raged through the night. That is so far from the truth it is ludicrous.

Your desire for a fuller exposition of the story is understandable, but this forum is not the place for that to occur. My guess is that the story will come out in court testimony, given under oath by people who were percipient witnesses (i.e., who were actually there). I believe the accounts I have heard will correspond with that testimony. I regret that you will have to wait.
 
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This just doesn't make sense. So kids will go to apartment parties and get black out drunk and do stupid stuff. Will psu the. Ban apartments??


The frats need to work around the rules and use them to their advantage. They students can still get drunk and the frats will be in the clear. Their houses will also avoid the fines, damage and problems. The problems will still exist but they will be moved to another location.
 
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Being Greek at PSU was an important part of my experience and the lasting friendships that continue decades later. there is no surprise that the admin is typical of any academic institution painting a broad brush of anything they don't like or is against their agenda or narrative. The Greek system contributes in many major ways to the university community. As with anything, some of it bad unfortunately.

The changes made have been too draconian. There should have been more discussion with the student leadership and a better thought out plan. The rush aspects will be a major challenge. In my view, a better solution would have been to stop first semester freshmen from rushing and to allow for all other rush to continue. Most houses have mortgages or other debt to service. The loss of members will create financial challenges of organizations that are already challenged financially.

If the current Greeks want to make a statement to the university as to their worth in the university community, they should step away from homecoming this year. Just drop all activities related to homecoming. No parade, no homecoming week events, etc. Let the university be forced to scramble to recover a big weekend for alums. This will send a strong message.


I guess I am not familiar, but how is rush pushed back one semester affect anything.

Financial challenges?? You just got your social budget cut down to a 3rd. You miss those all important juniors that decided to rush in the fall only to join in the spring? Like I said before its no different than a company moving its fiscal calendar to an annual one. If this proves to be such a hardship where are the Greek alums, I thought brotherhood was to extend beyond college life as you state? Surely there could be some successful alums that have no problem supporting/donating to the shortfall you describe [albeit 'shortterm']
 
I guess I am not familiar, but how is rush pushed back one semester affect anything.

Financial challenges?? You just got your social budget cut down to a 3rd. You miss those all important juniors that decided to rush in the fall only to join in the spring? Like I said before its no different than a company moving its fiscal calendar to an annual one. If this proves to be such a hardship where are the Greek alums, I thought brotherhood was to extend beyond college life as you state? Surely there could be some successful alums that have no problem supporting/donating to the shortfall you describe [albeit 'shortterm']

Good point. I'll be sure to write my check to the fraternity instead of the university this year.
 
Now the PSU Greeks have something to worry about

STATE COLLEGE - Penn State issued a tough set of rules for fraternity and sorority parties Thursday, even as it issued the Greek life equivalent of the death penalty to the fraternity where a student died during a February party.

The new rules include a limit of 10 alcohol-fueled parties per semester at any single fraternity or sorority; alcohol service at those parties limited to beer and wine, all served by state-certified bartenders; and a ban on kegs.

Penn State is also moving rush - the campus-wide recruitment and period for new fraternity and sorority members - from fall semester to spring semester in 2017-18, to give incoming students more time to become oriented to campus life.

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Vice President for Student Affairs Damon Sims said university officials aren't ready to cut the cord with the Greek organizations altogether.

Sims said he likes the groups' role in establishing smaller communities within one of America's largest student bodies, the additional sense of belonging they create for alumni, and the service works they undertake.

The new rules, Sims said, will give the Greeks at Penn State a new chance to "emphasize these good things,while weeding out the problems that have caused such pain, collectively and individually, to all of us."

To wit:

  • Internal university figures show fraternity and sorority members are four times more likely than the general student population to be heavy drinkers;
  • Sorority women are 50 percent more likely than other female students to be sexually assaulted, and fraternity men are 62 percent more likely to commit a sexual assault than non-fraternity men.
All of those bad statistics got a human face late Feb. 2, when student Timothy Piazza fell down a set of stairs in the Beta house during a party, and was left unattended for as long as 12 hours as a party raged through the night.

The 19-year-old from Lebanon, N.J. died two days later at Hershey Medical center, and the circumstances of the death are still the subject of a criminal investigation in Centre County.

In the 2014-15 academic year, the Kappa Delta Rho house at Penn State gave the university a black eye with revelations of a members-only Facebook page filled with pictures of hazing activities and female students in compromising positions.

That house's charter at Penn State was suspended for three years.

For all those problems, Greek-letter organizations continue to play a big role at Penn State's main campus.

University officials note there are 82 fraternities and sororities recognized by the school, claiming about 18 percent of the total undergraduate student body as members.

Sims said the new protocols represent a much more aggressive approach by the university to set rules for what are private membership groups that have traditionally been permitted wide berth to self-govern.

"Enough is enough," Sims said. "A fundamental shift is required if these organizations are to be truly successful and sustainable."

One effect of the changes, including the end of self-service from a keg, or strict adherence to underage drinking laws, would be to have fraternities and sororities to operate much more like licensed bars when throwing a party.

The limits on the number of events are also potentially significant.

A Penn State semester is 15 weeks long, so under existing rules, fraternities and sororities faced a liberal cap of 45 alcohol events a semester, or an average of three per week.

That cap was set by Penn State's Interfraternity Council.

Under the new rules, Sims said, that average would be cut to well under one event with alcohol per week.

Sims, in announcing the changes, said enforcement mechanisms are still in development, but will likely involve some combination of university staff and local law enforcement.

A ban on alcohol events this spring has been enforced through random spot checks by Student Affairs staff, a university spokesman said. Penn State could also consider the hiring of a third-party monitoring service.

Violations will lead to immediate penalties for individual houses, and could affect their status at Penn State.

"We are not going to be bashful about winnowing away these organizations if they don't meet our expectations," Sims said.

A collective failure to abide by the new rules could also prompt Penn State to re-impose the ban on all alcohol that has been put into effect this spring. Sims added.

Sims said the ban on Beta Theta Pi - already closed in the wake of Piazza's death - was made permanent as ongoing student conduct investigations have uncovered persistent patterns of serious alcohol abuse, hazing, and the use and sale of illicit drugs.

"The serious violations we have found... which combine with a student's tragic death to lead us to conclude that Beta Theta Pi, despite its notable history at Penn State, merits no continuing place in our community."

This post was updated at 12:39 p.m. to include some information on the number of students involved in fraternities and sororities at Penn State.


Beta were jerks then; they are even worse now.
 
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This is truly a setback for Greek Snobs globally..........

...said the guy who could not get a bid.

Come on, Laf. You may not like auxgym's point of view, but obviously not everyone cared about the Greek system in college. I had no interest in joining a frat. It wasn't for me. I didn't drink or take drugs. Partying (big parties, many parties) wasn't my thing. My focus was classes and Blue Band. Both kept me plenty busy, and I just didn't need to be in a frat. Obviously many students shared my point of view.

Now, none of what I said means that frats are all bad. They just aren't for everyone.
 
I get your point, Bob. And nothing against guys who elected not to join a fraternity; except when they being spouting off about how worthless the fraternity experience is (based on no personal knowledge) or opining that guys who elect to join a freternity are "snobs" (auxgym) or "assholes" (WTNuke).

And Blue Band is essentially a fraternity of its own. A very good one.
 
I get your point, Bob. And nothing against guys who elected not to join a fraternity; except when they being spouting off about how worthless the fraternity experience is (based on no personal knowledge) or opining that guys who elect to join a freternity are "snobs" (auxgym) or "assholes" (WTNuke).

And Blue Band is essentially a fraternity of its own. A very good one.
I'm opining that guys who allow underage drinking that leads to someone dying are assholes. Note that they're still assholes even when they're not in the fraternity. It's not the fraternity that made them assholes.

I have plenty of personal experience, as do some female friends. The veneer of the classy social club tends to wear off when pictures of passed out women are passed around Facebook without consent. Complicity in a culture of marketing young women doesn't make you a sweet innocent bystander. It makes you part of the problem. And it makes you an asshole.
 
Whatever. You paint with a very broad brush, particularly for someone who was not in a fraternity himself, and whose exposure to fraternities is probably limited to a handful at PSU.
 
Here they go again using a broad brush to paint an unflattering picture of these college kids. Typical liberal education over reaction to blame an entire group for the actions of a very few. And PSU takes another blow to the crotch
 
Yes, at least in terms of what you described. I think there are a couple of frats that have a longer rush/pledge schedule, but for the most part rushing and pledging at PSU frats take place in one semester.

As for hazing, pretty much all of the Nationals have a no-hazing policy. The chapters usually have "work" requirements, like cleaning the house every day, working the parties, etc. Some throw in other requirements that are either team building or hazing, depending on your perspective.

I have checked with some of my fraternity brothers from the mid to late 60's and they agree that Fall quarter of your freshman year there were prohibitions from rushing. There were one or two days when the houses were open but there were no alcohol parties.

In the winter quarter rush was dinners and parties. Bids were extended and accepted. Pledging was Spring and the following Fall quarters. Rush during Spring quarter and the following Fall provided the next class and included transfers from other schools or commonwealth campuses and some who might not have the grades in Winter.

This was during the time of curfews for "co-eds" and a ban on women in apartments or renting apartments. There were exceptions for dietary or health reasons. Two females rented the apartment below us in Whitehall, aka Lions Gate, during 68-69. They "claimed" dietary issues.
 
I'm opining that guys who allow underage drinking that leads to someone dying are assholes. Note that they're still assholes even when they're not in the fraternity. It's not the fraternity that made them assholes.

I have plenty of personal experience, as do some female friends. The veneer of the classy social club tends to wear off when pictures of passed out women are passed around Facebook without consent. Complicity in a culture of marketing young women doesn't make you a sweet innocent bystander. It makes you part of the problem. And it makes you an asshole.

What about guys who allow underage drinking that doesn't lead to a death? They must be assholes, too, since no one can predict a death except a murderer. And, let's face it--pretty much every college kid drinks underage. So, according to you, they're all assholes, right?

I think your real beef is that you weren't in the social club. Welcome to the real world where you don't get everything you want.
 
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...said the guy who could not get a bid.
Well said. I'm obviously still scarred that I didn't qualify to lick stale beer out of the corner of the rec room on a journey to experience the truly finest meat and cheese that life has to offer.
 
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