Pulitzer Prizes -- Mostly Agree, 1 SMH

[Obliviax]

Any winners who write for or are affiliated with conservative publications? Just curious.

Obliviax -

"How about you pull your own weight? Why have your problems suddenly become my problems? Worse, why is your problem my fault?"

OK, please nominate me!

 

[The Spin Meister]

Tom-
Why did you see the need to make this post?

First, Tom is long gone. He sold all the rights to this site and stated he will probably never post here again. He is on the On3 site if you want to ask him about it.

And he posted this in spite of his so-called desire to keep the site non political. He knew that 1619 was extremely controversial and political. He knew then discussion here would quickly become critical and political. Yet he chose to start this thread.

If he were still here, I think he would say he did so as it is a historical subject on which he has substantial expertise and interest. He often started threads on historical subjects and they were well received. And a book getting a Pulitzer is substantial news.

However, and again, he had to know this a very political subject and the reactions to it would also be so. Since he claimed avoiding politics was a prime directive, I too wonder why he did it. But no use pursuing that because he would just hide behind the history aspect as justification.

 

[bison13]

First, Tom is long gone. He sold all the rights to this site and stated he will probably never post here again. He is on the On3 site if you want to ask him about it.

And he posted this is spite of his so-called desire to keep the site non political. He knew that 1619 was extremely controversial and political. He knew then discussion here would quickly become critical and political. Yet he chose to start this thread.

If he were still here, I think he would say he did so as it is a historical subject on which he has substantial expertise and interest. He often started threads on historical subjects and they were well received. And a book getting a Pulitzer is substantial news.

However, and again, he had to know this a very political subject and the reactions to it would also be so. Since he claimed avoiding politics was a prime directive, I too wonder why he did it. But no use pursuing that because he would just hide behind the history aspect as justification.

He like almost all left leaning 'historians' I know think they are morally better than everyone as well as intellectually superior. Always fun when they try to prove things using math/science and are always wrong

 

[The Spin Meister]

Kinda OT, but when I was at the War college I was assigned a project on the Barbary Wars. While doing the research I came across a collection of writings from an OSU researcher named Bob Davis. He had the numbers for white European Slaves in North Africa at 1 to 1.5 million. This struck me as odd because I was certain if this were true I would have heard it before. This was happening while the Atlantic slave trade was still relatively small. This certainly doesn't negate the terrible history of slavery in the US. It does however, in my mind, change the narrative that the evil white colonist dreamed up modern slavery out of racism. Makes you wondern why these historians dont mention that at the very same time that the Atlantic slave trade was happening that Africans were holding 1 million + white European slaves?

Here is a Wikipedia link to that subject and quotes Bob Davis’ book. His numbers are educated guesstimates since there are very little records. But there is no doubt the number of white slaves captured and held in Africa is substantial. And included an estimated 700 Americans.

Thanks for educating me.

Barbary slave trade - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[CLWBT]

First, Tom is long gone. He sold all the rights to this site and stated he will probably never post here again. He is on the On3 site if you want to ask him about it.

And he posted this is spite of his so-called desire to keep the site non political. He knew that 1619 was extremely controversial and political. He knew then discussion here would quickly become critical and political. Yet he chose to start this thread.

If he were still here, I think he would say he did so as it is a historical subject on which he has substantial expertise and interest. He often started threads on historical subjects and they were well received. And a book getting a Pulitzer is substantial news.

However, and again, he had to know this a very political subject and the reactions to it would also be so. Since he claimed avoiding politics was a prime directive, I too wonder why he did it. But no use pursuing that because he would just hide behind the history aspect as justificatio

Slavery was a worldwide issue before and after our civil war. We weren’t the first to abolish it, not the last. Racism is also not an exclusive American issue. This isn’t to excuse either but to point out our self loathing over these issues is ridiculous

Quite correct, sir.

 

[SUPERTODD]

First, Tom is long gone. He sold all the rights to this site and stated he will probably never post here again. He is on the On3 site if you want to ask him about it.

And he posted this in spite of his so-called desire to keep the site non political. He knew that 1619 was extremely controversial and political. He knew then discussion here would quickly become critical and political. Yet he chose to start this thread.

If he were still here, I think he would say he did so as it is a historical subject on which he has substantial expertise and interest. He often started threads on historical subjects and they were well received. And a book getting a Pulitzer is substantial news.

However, and again, he had to know this a very political subject and the reactions to it would also be so. Since he claimed avoiding politics was a prime directive, I too wonder why he did it. But no use pursuing that because he would just hide behind the history aspect as justification.

I would add to that, that he routinely would allow dicks like dimlion, the resident moron in this thread etc to spam every topic that even hinted of politics with a constant stream of invective. You can see it in this thread. For the most part, conservatives are able to interact reasonably because a substantive debate is what we are looking for. We know our ideas are well thought out.
The progressives on this site never even bother to try to engage. They simply insult because they are so very emotional about every issue. Tom had, and I’m sure has in his new endeavor, zero intellectual honesty. The only time he could bestir himself to “moderate” was when his resident pets began to lose yet another exchange.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I would add to that, that he routinely would allow dicks like dimlion, the resident moron in this thread etc to spam every topic that even hinted of politics with a constant stream of invective. You can see it in this thread. For the most part, conservatives are able to interact reasonably because a substantive debate is what we are looking for. We know our ideas are well thought out.
The progressives on this site never even bother to try to engage. They simply insult because they are so very emotional about every issue. Tom had, and I’m sure has in his new endeavor, zero intellectual honesty. The only time he could bestir himself to “moderate” was when his resident pets began to lose yet another exchange.

Yep, Tom and I had a pretty heated PM debate about that very problem. There were about 10-12 Favored Few that would always make some snarky comment. And everyone knew/knows who they were/are . Some of them acted up less often but others continued on with their maniacal drumbeat.

That’s one big reason why I haven’t migrated to his new site. Are the same Favored Few doing the same there? Haven’t been paying any attention.

 

[dailybuck777]

TA embarrassed himself in this thread by covering for the liar Nikole Hannah Jones who claims that the revolution was fought to protect slavery. This was ridiculous because for instance Thomas Jefferson calls slavery a hideous institution. Also, she was so uninformed that she thought that the arriving was black people were slaves when they were indentured servants. Slavery didn't start until about 1660.

I pointed this out and he deleted my comments twice.

 

[kgilbert78]

Here is a Wikipedia link to that subject and quotes Bob Davis’ book. His numbers are educated guesstimates since there are very little records. But there is no doubt the number of white slaves captured and held in Africa is substantial. And included an estimated 700 Americans.

Thanks for educating me.

Barbary slave trade - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It was one reason we went to war with the Barbary States.

 

[The Spin Meister]

It was one reason we went to war with the Barbary States.

I knew Barbary pirates were attacking our merchant ships but didn’t know they were enslaving people on board or raiding villages along the coast for more slaves.

 

[kgilbert78]

From Wikipedia

The wars were largely a reaction to piracy carried out by the Barbary states. Since the 16th century, Muslim pirates operating out of North Africa had captured ships and even raided cities across the Mediterranean Sea. By the 19th century, pirate activity had declined, but Barbary pirates continued to demand tribute from American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean. Refusal to pay would result in the capturing of American ships and goods, and often the enslavement or ransoming of crew members.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

TA embarrassed himself in this thread by covering for the liar Nikole Hannah Jones who claims that the revolution was fought to protect slavery. This was ridiculous because for instance Thomas Jefferson calls slavery a hideous institution. Also, she was so uninformed that she thought that the arriving was black people were slaves when they were indentured servants. Slavery didn't start until about 1660.

I pointed this out and he deleted my comments twice.

Tom is simply a weasel.

 

[dailybuck777]

I knew Barbary pirates were attacking our merchant ships but didn’t know they were enslaving people on board or raiding villages along the coast for more slaves.

They were so aggressive that I saw one person comment that the towns on the shore of the Mediterranean Sea were depopulated by the raids. They even went to Ireland and enslaved a whole village.

 

[dailybuck777]

Tom is simply a weasel.

He certainly was to me.

 

[SUPERTODD]

I knew Barbary pirates were attacking our merchant ships but didn’t know they were enslaving people on board or raiding villages along the coast for more slaves.

I can recommend a great book. The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the First Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks. It was really interesting reading about our desire to punish the Barbary Pirates for insulting our national honor when most have Europe had capitulated to their demands are were paying them ransom. Like most things Jefferson did, he completely lacked any practical vision of how to govern a nation but this worked out for him and the country.

 

[dailybuck777]

From Wikipedia

The wars were largely a reaction to piracy carried out by the Barbary states. Since the 16th century, Muslim pirates operating out of North Africa had captured ships and even raided cities across the Mediterranean Sea. By the 19th century, pirate activity had declined, but Barbary pirates continued to demand tribute from American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean. Refusal to pay would result in the capturing of American ships and goods, and often the enslavement or ransoming of crew members.

Here is a link to the attack on the Irish village and the enslavement of its residents. https://divainternational.ch/barbary-pirates-in-ireland-the-sack-of-baltimore-co-cork.html

 

[The Spin Meister]

Here is a link to the attack on the Irish village and the enslavement of its residents. https://divainternational.ch/barbary-pirates-in-ireland-the-sack-of-baltimore-co-cork.html

Interesting piece. But it says that white slave traders were going to Africa seize slaves . But the large majority of African slaves brought to the New World were bought from other tribes or slave traders in Africa. Major flaw.

Would make a good movie to do on the life the seventeen yr old Irish lad captured into slavery.

 

[SUPERTODD]

National Association Of Scholars Calls For Revoking 1619 Project Pulitzer

A host of academics signed a letter to the Pulitzer Prize Board calling for it to revoke the prize it awarded Nikole Hannah-Jones for her 1619 Project.

thefederalist.com

From the article:



An impressive array of academics associated with the National Association of Scholars signed a letterto the Pulitzer Prize Board calling for it to revoke the prize it ceremoniously awarded to Nikole Hannah-Jones this year for her lead essay in The New York Times’ deeply troubled and historically challenged 1619 Project.

These scholars called for the board to rescind the prize not merely for the many well-documented, fundamental historical inaccuracies of the project’s central thesis and supporting argumentation, but also for Hannah-Jones and the Times’ resultant academic and journalistic malfeasance in the face of this substantial criticism. As The Federalist documented in late September, Hannah-Jones and the Times secretly deleted the most fundamental claim of her lead essay for the project: that slavery was the central reason for our nation’s founding.

 

[jferretti]

What a strange time for you to come on here and talk trash about Mark Levin.

I can't recall him ever being mentioned on this board, and you have 3 posts ridiculing the guy.

What's with the anger and misdirection?

Anger and misdirection? A debate, and a worthy one, over historical accuracy morphs into a liberal/conservative food fight well before there is a mention of Mark Levin. Exhibit A as to why civil discourse is on life support.

 

[kgilbert78]

There was a story recently in our local newspaper by one of the opinion editors about the 1968 Olympic games Black Power salute by John Carlos and Tommy Smith comparing it to today's "cancel culture". That's a reasonable topic and I'm not getting into that specific situation. The problem was that the article noted that both were stripped of their medals, had death threats against them, and were banned from the Olympics for life. The only problem with that is that the first thing wasn't true at all and the third thing was only partly true--they were sent home from the Olympics--but as far as I can tell, they were not banned for life (Carlos later worked for the 1984 LA Games committee, for example). And that's the problem. You can figure out the true answer to the first point in about 30 seconds on the internet, with plenty of sources. This is the bad habit that modern media has--and it's not exclusive to the left. Outrage gets hits. And hits mean money. I even wrote the paper--and the article is still posted with the incorrect info.

We had a similar thing happen to our local civic association. A very critical article was written (that cost us memberships) regarding speeding in the neighborhood that stated that the civic association had done nothing. Now, we hadn't solved the problem to be sure. A civic association is not the police. But we had spent considerable time and effort on that neighbor's concern--a neighbor who wasn't even a member. When the writer was asked about it, he did not apologize but stated that "it was a good story".

 

[Obliviax]

There was a story recently in our local newspaper by one of the opinion editors about the 1968 Olympic games Black Power salute by John Carlos and Tommy Smith comparing it to today's "cancel culture". That's a reasonable topic and I'm not getting into that specific situation. The problem was that the article noted that both were stripped of their medals, had death threats against them, and were banned from the Olympics for life. The only problem with that is that the first thing wasn't true at all and the third thing was only partly true--they were sent home from the Olympics--but as far as I can tell, they were not banned for life (Carlos later worked for the 1984 LA Games committee, for example). And that's the problem. You can figure out the true answer to the first point in about 30 seconds on the internet, with plenty of sources. This is the bad habit that modern media has--and it's not exclusive to the left. Outrage gets hits. And hits mean money. I even wrote the paper--and the article is still posted with the incorrect info.

We had a similar thing happen to our local civic association. A very critical article was written (that cost us memberships) regarding speeding in the neighborhood that stated that the civic association had done nothing. Now, we hadn't solved the problem to be sure. A civic association is not the police. But we had spent considerable time and effort on that neighbor's concern--a neighbor who wasn't even a member. When the writer was asked about it, he did not apologize but stated that "it was a good story".

the most recent Olympics also have banned political statements so it isn't so bad.

The issue here, IMHO, is teaching these things out of context. Yes, the USA has a horrible record on slavery. But in context, it really isn't much different from most of the rest of the world. We were not the first, nor last, to outlaw slavery. And racism still exists, worldwide.

Yet, certain races seem to fair pretty well. I worked for a company owned by a Chinese American (move here when he was 13, his grandfather was a governor and escaped to Taiwan when it went Red). Only within the last three years has he ever felt he was singled out for his race (now in his 60s). Koreans and Vietnamese immigrated in massive droves during their conflicts and are doing well, as a group. My grandparents used to tell Irish and Italian jokes. You can't get elected here in CLE unless you are Black or Irish. I've got a friend who ran for a judgeship and joked she was going to change her last name to "McIrishperson".

Point is, the USA's record on slavery and racism should be taught. But only as a backdrop to the world stage and other forms of bigotry.

 

[kgilbert78]

the most recent Olympics also have banned political statements so it isn't so bad.

I personally think that politics should be kept out of the Olympics. Given that the original Olympics stopped wars, I don't think it too much to ask.

But my point was that folks are looking for hits and outrage--truth is optional.

 

[francofan]

For those who might be interested, John Ziegler dropped a surprise episode 19 of the With the Benefit of Hindsight (WTBOH) podcast series. Ziegler and Liz Habib, a Professor at Syracuse's Newhouse School of Public Communication, discuss Pulitzer Prize winner Sara Ganim's ill-fated foray in the dubious "Mayor of Maple Avenue" podcast. It seems like the podcast has collapsed after the trailer was released in November and the initial episode slated to happen in December never occurred.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

National Association Of Scholars Calls For Revoking 1619 Project Pulitzer

A host of academics signed a letter to the Pulitzer Prize Board calling for it to revoke the prize it awarded Nikole Hannah-Jones for her 1619 Project.

thefederalist.com

From the article:



An impressive array of academics associated with the National Association of Scholars signed a letterto the Pulitzer Prize Board calling for it to revoke the prize it ceremoniously awarded to Nikole Hannah-Jones this year for her lead essay in The New York Times’ deeply troubled and historically challenged 1619 Project.

These scholars called for the board to rescind the prize not merely for the many well-documented, fundamental historical inaccuracies of the project’s central thesis and supporting argumentation, but also for Hannah-Jones and the Times’ resultant academic and journalistic malfeasance in the face of this substantial criticism. As The Federalist documented in late September, Hannah-Jones and the Times secretly deleted the most fundamental claim of her lead essay for the project: that slavery was the central reason for our nation’s founding.

Tom finds her “very credible”

 

[NewEra 2014]

I saw this article and immediately thought of this thread. Tom McAndrew jumped the shark for me with his praise of this clown.

She's a smart one, alright

 

[PSUEngineer89]

I saw this article and immediately thought of this thread. Tom McAndrew jumped the shark for me with his praise of this clown.

She's a smart one, alright

Tom is a punk.