Dake
Smith
Sanderson
Stieber
http://www.d1collegewrestling.net/Honors_Multiple.html
I go Cael, smith, Dake, Stieber
Rank your four 4 timers
- Thread starter sunshinedynomite
- Start date
Dake
Smith
Sanderson
Stieber
http://www.d1collegewrestling.net/Honors_Multiple.html
I go Cael, smith, Dake, Stieber
How crazy 75 percent of 4 timers start with S’s.
I believe PSU has a stud S wrestler coming into the program.
I believe PSU has a stud S wrestler coming into the program.
Cael...because Duh!
Smith because the first
Dake
Steiber should not be in the list. That was two!!!
Smith because the first
Dake
Steiber should not be in the list. That was two!!!
This question could be worded better:
“Who do you think is the best 4 timer of all time and why is it Cael Sanderson?”
“Who do you think is the best 4 timer of all time and why is it Cael Sanderson?”
1. Sanderson
1a. Dake
3. Smith
4 Steiber
Cael wins the tie break for obvious reasons but Dake has a solid case to be #1 as well.
Steiber clearly #4 so Smith #3 by default.
1a. Dake
3. Smith
4 Steiber
Cael wins the tie break for obvious reasons but Dake has a solid case to be #1 as well.
Steiber clearly #4 so Smith #3 by default.
1. Cael and it isn't close
2. Smith (first)
3. Dake no redshirt
4. Logan being last in this group is an honor
2. Smith (first)
3. Dake no redshirt
4. Logan being last in this group is an honor
How deep would Cael have went in his TF year?
Dont get me wrong, i am 100% Cael as GOAT.
Edit. There are SEVERAL 3xers I would rank above Steiber.
Dont get me wrong, i am 100% Cael as GOAT.
Edit. There are SEVERAL 3xers I would rank above Steiber.
If National titles is the only criteria, Steiber is a distant #4... I guess. However, when you enter other factors, I question if Steiber even sniffs top 10. I question if he’d even be a top 5 PSU’er. And... and... I could present an argument that there’s at least one 3x’er better than Dake.
Okay... flame away.
Okay... flame away.
At least Dake set the record strait (in the FRL with Burroughs) as to what makes his case for GOAT. It wasnt because he was 4xer, nor because he did it without a RS,nor because he jumped classes every year. Nope, it is because he beat DT three times in his senior year.
yeah. the different weight class aspect doesn't mean much to me at all. its not like he was really a 157lber wrestling up at 165. he was big at every weight he competed in. now the no RS part is very big IMO ….
I will add that in his sophomore season I do not think he would have beaten Caldwell in the semis had he not been hurt. obviously we will never know, but that season he had a couple bad losses IMO & appeared he was really cutting weight hard that year.
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Spencer was poised to do it without a RS too (technically) . He WOULD have been MY #2.
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ill also add that I think if Zain had taken his RS as a freshman, I think he would have won 149 as a RS freshman (Drake Houdashelt won it in 2015) and would be a 4Xer. hell, he may have gone undefeated
Zain was one of my SEVERAL 3xers that I would rank above Logie. Zain titles were legit.
Dake loses yet another fantasy match.
The way i look it at is who did they beat, don't like Dake but over the 4 years he beat the following future world team members - Reece, Frank and David off the top of my head that is pretty impressive
That is why switching weights is impressive. If Dake never switched weights, he would not have faced Taylor. I did the simple math some years ago, and I recall that if one guy switches weight every single year, and nobody else does, the weight switcher would face about twice as many distinct people as if he never switched weights. I mean, if Zahid would have switched weights more, then he would have faced Bo one year. Are you telling me that beating Mark Hall for two years would be equally as impressive as beating Mark Hall and also Bo Nickal for the title?
Very good question.
Which is more impressive:
A. beating the same elite wrestler multiple times
B. beating multiple elite wrestlers once
Both have merit.
In scenario A, it shows a true dominance over the competitor. You are able to make adjustments match to match and still come out on top. You prove you are the better athlete, not just on that given day.
In scenario B, it shows how versatile of a wrestler you are. You are able to best multiple competitors and styles and win.
A few counter arguments would be:
In scenario A it may be as simple as a style matchup issue. Wrestler A could always own wrestler B, but has the less impressive career accomplishment wise.
In scenario B you may have just wrestled better on those individual nights. If you were to wrestle multiple times, you would most likely lose more than you win.
If I had ever done either of them, I could let you know how it felt. If I ever do both of them, I will be sure to tell you how it feels. Do dreams count?
Definately NOT in Dakes case, but some guys switch weights to get AWAY from elites.
Im in the camp that Dake was not afraid of anyone, but dont tell me the majority of wrestlers would love to be able to never worry about weight, knowing they would be bumping every year.
Dakes biggest accomplishment was winning a title in his first year out of HS, then the rest came easier.
Agree on Dake winning as a true frosh. IMHO Dake grew each year and cut less weight each year. His style never changed much but his bonus rate increased each year as he got more experience and wrestled closer to his true weight. Although I was obviously disappointed (not as much as DT was though) with his wins over DT I thoroughly enjoyed him beating St. John in the finals his junior year and especially enjoyed hearing the entire arena (except Iowa fans) cheering him during his interview and drowning out the boos from the Iowa fans. I will never understand booing a college wrestler, let alone an NCAA champ. No matter how much I might root against any given wrestler or team I never boo a college wrestler and EVERY NCAA champ gets a standing ovation from me.
Both have merit to an all knowing god. For ordinary men, if somebody beat Zain for four years in a row, people would just assume Zain was good but he wasn’t that good. But if somebody beat Zain for one year, letting Zain more clearly show his greatness the other years, then it would be more impressive. Zahid ~suffers from this now. People probably don’t appreciate just how good Mark Hall was/is. And if Zahid would have beaten Mark Hall that first year, people would appreciate Mark Hall even less.
Or, put another way, if Dake had just beaten down David Taylor for four years straight, people would actually be less impressed, not more impressed, compared to Dake’s beating a greatness-recognized David Taylor for one year.
Dake beat Montell Marion 7-4 to win as a true freshman.
Andrew Alton pinned Marion as a true freshman.
Draw your own conclusions.
He may not have beat him down for four strait YEARS, but he beat him down four strait TIMES.
Cael - undefeated, nuff said
Dake - no RS, 4 different wgt classes (small case for #1)
Smith - here by default
Steibler - easily the weakest of the 4
Dake - no RS, 4 different wgt classes (small case for #1)
Smith - here by default
Steibler - easily the weakest of the 4
That is not a counterargument to scenario B because also in scenario A you also wrestled the same number of matches and you also may have just wrestled better on those individual nights. My debater son would say “your harm is non-unique.”
so there is no possible way a guy who, that same season, lost to Donnie Vinson & Kevin LeValley could have lost to a returning NCAA Champ who was unbeaten in a dominant fashion & had also handled the unbeatable Brent Metcalf in his previous NCAA final??
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1.Cael crushed everyone.
2. Lee Kemp. I know he only got 3 titles but he was never out scored lost to Yagla 4-4 ref decision his freshmen year but also beat Gable that year(Northern open) when he was 18 yrs old.
3. Dake very impressive winning 4 weight classes
4. Stieber just because most people disrespect how good he was.
5. Smith Because his brother was better and only got 2?
2. Lee Kemp. I know he only got 3 titles but he was never out scored lost to Yagla 4-4 ref decision his freshmen year but also beat Gable that year(Northern open) when he was 18 yrs old.
3. Dake very impressive winning 4 weight classes
4. Stieber just because most people disrespect how good he was.
5. Smith Because his brother was better and only got 2?
Fair enough. Lets try again, for your son.
One match result between elite wrestlers may not be enough data to say the better wrestler won. Too many variables(insert long bus ride, average officials jokes here).
As the amount of matches between the same two wrestlers increases and the results continue to have the same winner, it is much easier to rule out variables as primary factors in the results. This will lead to the conclusion that one wrestler is indeed better than the other.
For the record I lean towards being more impressed with those that have wins over multiple elites
Crap - a fortuitous rollthrough prevents us from saying
Cael
Smith
Dake
Nickal
Cael
Smith
Dake
Nickal
So true! This “luck” discussion reminds me of Tracy McGrady. If he’d had just a little bit of luck here and there, with better teammates, with less injury, we would be thinking of him alongside Michael Jordan. Wrestlers are lucky to be in an individual sport, in which luck plays a far smaller part of success.
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