Recruiting numbers and who leaves.

[Agoodnap]

I see many posts about how many additional 2018 recruits we can take and the discussion seems to always center around 25 as the minimum and then talk of how we could squeeze in a few more. Well, everything shiny and new is nice but there are always consequences to consider.

We have 69 players on the roster with scholarships that have eligibility for next year. Since the team many only have 85 scholarship players at one time that leaves 16 available scholarships to give out (85 - 69 = 16). So, for every commit above 16 someone has to leave the team.

Now, here is my questions...who will you have leaving? Don't give me the BS about that being CJF's problem, as every time you hope that we add an additional recruit you must also be thinking who you'd like to leave.

Here is a list of all 69 players, on scholarship that have eligibility for next year. Who do you want out, because again, every additional commit means someone is leaving.

I personally don't want any to leave so that means I wouldn't accept any more commitments.

Nbr Name Pos Grade
21 Amani Oruwariye CB SR/JR
24 DJ Brown CB FR/FR
3 Donovan Johnson CB FR/FR
29 John Reid CB JR/JR
38 Lamont Wade CB FR/FR
5 Tariq Castro-Fields CB FR/FR
14 Zech McPhearson CB SO/FR
90 Damion Barber DE FR/FR
49 Daniel Joseph DE SO/FR
97 Ryan Buchholz DE JR/SO
18 Shaka Toney DE SO/FR
34 Shane Simmons DE SO/FR
48 Shareef Miller DE JR/SO
19 Torrence Brown DE SR/JR
99 Yetur Gross-Matos DE FR/FR
55 Antonio Shelton DT SO/FR
92 Corey Bolds DT FR/FR
42 Ellison Jordan DT SO/FR
53 Fred Hansard DT FR/FR
30 Kevin Givens DT JR/SO
54 Robert Windsor DT JR/SO
90 Alex Barbir K SO/FR
44 Brailyn Franklin LB FR/FR
25 Brelin Faison-Walden LB FR/FR
6 Cam Brown LB SO/SO
13 Ellis Brooks LB FR/FR
33 Jake Cooper LB JR/JR
9 Jarvis Miller LB JR/SO
7 Koa Farmer LB SR/JR
43 Manny Bowen LB JR/JR
51 Alex Gellerstedt OL SO/FR
61 C.J. Thorpe OL FR/FR
77 Chasz Wright OL SR/JR
66 Connor McGovern OL SO/SO
75 Des Holmes OL FR/FR
62 Michal Menet OL SO/FR
73 Mike Miranda OL FR/FR
72 Robbie Martin OL FR/FR
52 Ryan Bates OL JR/SO
76 Sterling Jenkins OL JR/SO
74 Steven Gonzalez OL JR/SO
71 Will Fries OL SO/FR
93 Blake Gillikin P/K SO/SO
7 Jake Zembiec QB SO/FR
14 Sean Clifford QB FR/FR
2 Tommy Stevens QB JR/SO
9 Trace McSorley QB SR/JR
6 Andre Robinson RB JR/SO
20 Johnathan Thomas RB SR/JR
32 Journey Brown RB FR/FR
8 Mark Allen RB SR/JR
24 Miles Sanders RB SO/SO
26 Saquon Barkley RB JR/JR
23 Ayron Monroe S JR/SO
17 Garrett Taylor S JR/SO
16 John Petrishen S JR/SO
26 Jonathan Sutherland S FR/FR
4 Nick Scott S SR/JR
80 Danny Dalton TE/H SO/FR
18 Jonathan Holland TE/H JR/SO
83 Nick Bowers TE/H JR/SO
10 Brandon Polk WR JR/SO
81 Cam Sullivan-Brown WR FR/FR
87 Dae'Lun Darien WR SO/FR
3 DeAndre Thompkins WR SR/JR
11 Irvin Charles WR JR/SO
84 Juwan Johnson WR JR/SO
1 KJ Hamler WR FR/FR
12 Mac Hippenhammer WR FR/FR

 

[canuckhal]

Start with any junior that has been in the program for 3.5 years or will be at end of next semester and is not starting, but graduating. That should be the starting point.

Then, look at any junior/senior with eligibility left who did not play in the past two games.

Then, look for any players coming into the 3rd year of the program, but are buried on the depth chart and might be willing to sit out a year or move to Div II.

 

[Agoodnap]

Start with any junior that has been in the program for 3.5 years or will be at end of next semester and is not starting, but graduating. That should be the starting point.

Then, look at any junior/senior with eligibility left who did not play in the past two games.

Then, look for any players coming into the 3rd year of the program, but are buried on the depth chart and might be willing to sit out a year or move to Div II.[/QUOTE

So, who do you want to leave? Remember, they all have 4 year scholarships.

 

[Linedrivedad02]

So, who do you want to leave? Remember, they all have 4 year scholarships.

Do they have 4 year ships? Or are they year to year?

 

[UNCPSUFAN]

Scholarships are year to year, not four years.

 

[Delco Lion]

BIG 10 guarantees four year scholarships for football.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ntees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes

 

[Achowalogan]

Scholarships are year to year, not four years.

Scholarships are year-to-year where the practice is to over sign annually and have "tryouts". I believe at PSU the practice has been to honor the scholarship until the young man completes his education.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I personally don't want any to leave so that means I wouldn't accept any more commitments.

I’m not motivated to see anyone leave, but it’s the way it works. Would you have us drop down to 1AA?

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

Not saying these are gone but some in this group will be gone. All gonna be 5th year seniors except Barkely who is gone.

Also read today that Tommy Stevens graduates in the spring. He could transfer and play somewhere right away having 2 years left. I would especially be concerned he could follow Moorhead knowing his system at the new school.

Torrence Brown
Jake Cooper
Koa Farmer
Manny Bowen
Saquon Barkley (NFL)
Chaz Wright
Jonathan Thomas
Mark Allen
Nick Scott
DeAndre Thompkins

 

[canuckhal]

So, who do you want to leave? Remember, they all have 4 year scholarships.

Why would I want anyone to leave? They were offered and signed. I have no idea what is happening at practice, in the classroom, and the community unless it is communicated. If a player decides to leave, that is fine with me, but it is that person's decision.

 

[canuckhal]

Not saying these are gone but some in this group will be gone. All gonna be 5th year seniors except Barkely who is gone.

Also read today that Tommy Stevens graduates in the spring. He could transfer and play somewhere right away having 2 years left. I would especially be concerned he could follow Moorhead knowing his system at the new school.

Torrence Brown
Jake Cooper
Koa Farmer
Manny Bowen
Saquon Barkley (NFL)
Chaz Wright
Jonathan Thomas
Mark Allen
Nick Scott
DeAndre Thompkins

Franklin has mentioned Cooper, Brown and Farmer as part of next season so I would expect them back.

 

[blion72]

I see many posts about how many additional 2018 recruits we can take and the discussion seems to always center around 25 as the minimum and then talk of how we could squeeze in a few more. Well, everything shiny and new is nice but there are always consequences to consider.

We have 69 players on the roster with scholarships that have eligibility for next year. Since the team many only have 85 scholarship players at one time that leaves 16 available scholarships to give out (85 - 69 = 16). So, for every commit above 16 someone has to leave the team.

Now, here is my questions...who will you have leaving? Don't give me the BS about that being CJF's problem, as every time you hope that we add an additional recruit you must also be thinking who you'd like to leave.

Here is a list of all 69 players, on scholarship that have eligibility for next year. Who do you want out, because again, every additional commit means someone is leaving.

I personally don't want any to leave so that means I wouldn't accept any more commitments.

Nbr Name Pos Grade
21 Amani Oruwariye CB SR/JR
24 DJ Brown CB FR/FR
3 Donovan Johnson CB FR/FR
29 John Reid CB JR/JR
38 Lamont Wade CB FR/FR
5 Tariq Castro-Fields CB FR/FR
14 Zech McPhearson CB SO/FR
90 Damion Barber DE FR/FR
49 Daniel Joseph DE SO/FR
97 Ryan Buchholz DE JR/SO
18 Shaka Toney DE SO/FR
34 Shane Simmons DE SO/FR
48 Shareef Miller DE JR/SO
19 Torrence Brown DE SR/JR
99 Yetur Gross-Matos DE FR/FR
55 Antonio Shelton DT SO/FR
92 Corey Bolds DT FR/FR
42 Ellison Jordan DT SO/FR
53 Fred Hansard DT FR/FR
30 Kevin Givens DT JR/SO
54 Robert Windsor DT JR/SO
90 Alex Barbir K SO/FR
44 Brailyn Franklin LB FR/FR
25 Brelin Faison-Walden LB FR/FR
6 Cam Brown LB SO/SO
13 Ellis Brooks LB FR/FR
33 Jake Cooper LB JR/JR
9 Jarvis Miller LB JR/SO
7 Koa Farmer LB SR/JR
43 Manny Bowen LB JR/JR
51 Alex Gellerstedt OL SO/FR
61 C.J. Thorpe OL FR/FR
77 Chasz Wright OL SR/JR
66 Connor McGovern OL SO/SO
75 Des Holmes OL FR/FR
62 Michal Menet OL SO/FR
73 Mike Miranda OL FR/FR
72 Robbie Martin OL FR/FR
52 Ryan Bates OL JR/SO
76 Sterling Jenkins OL JR/SO
74 Steven Gonzalez OL JR/SO
71 Will Fries OL SO/FR
93 Blake Gillikin P/K SO/SO
7 Jake Zembiec QB SO/FR
14 Sean Clifford QB FR/FR
2 Tommy Stevens QB JR/SO
9 Trace McSorley QB SR/JR
6 Andre Robinson RB JR/SO
20 Johnathan Thomas RB SR/JR
32 Journey Brown RB FR/FR
8 Mark Allen RB SR/JR
24 Miles Sanders RB SO/SO
26 Saquon Barkley RB JR/JR
23 Ayron Monroe S JR/SO
17 Garrett Taylor S JR/SO
16 John Petrishen S JR/SO
26 Jonathan Sutherland S FR/FR
4 Nick Scott S SR/JR
80 Danny Dalton TE/H SO/FR
18 Jonathan Holland TE/H JR/SO
83 Nick Bowers TE/H JR/SO
10 Brandon Polk WR JR/SO
81 Cam Sullivan-Brown WR FR/FR
87 Dae'Lun Darien WR SO/FR
3 DeAndre Thompkins WR SR/JR
11 Irvin Charles WR JR/SO
84 Juwan Johnson WR JR/SO
1 KJ Hamler WR FR/FR
12 Mac Hippenhammer WR FR/FR

take off all the graduating seniors who have no eligibility left. i presume the 69 you have above did not miss anyone.

it then starts with the people who are seniors now (academically) or have already graduated, AND have an additional year available. These folks mostly are going to have degrees and can move on with their life. any player who is not a key player on the field at that point is not likely to be different next year. these players should graduate and get on with their life. some will want to pursue the pro route to see if they fit, so not a big deal. Certainly, Trace is going to get an opinion on that, as he represents the graduating senior group who have another year available. the current senior class are all from Coach Franklin's first recruiting class in 2014.

any junior who is graduating now, and has two years available after this (i.e. Tommy Stevens) will almost certainly look at leaving if they are not a central part of our team/starter. they can take a grad transfer option.

finally, anybody that has been on this team 2-3 years and has not seen any meaningful time or role in the depth chart will likely move on.

between those two buckets my guess is the staff sees about 8-10 openings. trick will be timing.

 

[Agoodnap]

I’m not motivated to see anyone leave, but it’s the way it works. Would you have us drop down to 1AA?

Don't give me this...you are one of the most vocal opponents of maxing out the 25 scholarships. Since you've probably made well over 250 posts on the subject you must have a list of who you want to leave. Post your list please. It will provide a lot of discussion.

 

[Agoodnap]

take off all the graduating seniors who have no eligibility left. i presume the 69 you have above did not miss anyone.

it then starts with the people who are seniors now (academically) or have already graduated, AND have an additional year available. These folks mostly are going to have degrees and can move on with their life. any player who is not a key player on the field at that point is not likely to be different next year. these players should graduate and get on with their life. some will want to pursue the pro route to see if they fit, so not a big deal. Certainly, Trace is going to get an opinion on that, as he represents the graduating senior group who have another year available. the current senior class are all from Coach Franklin's first recruiting class in 2014.

any junior who is graduating now, and has two years available after this (i.e. Tommy Stevens) will almost certainly look at leaving if they are not a central part of our team/starter. they can take a grad transfer option.

finally, anybody that has been on this team 2-3 years and has not seen any meaningful time or role in the depth chart will likely move on.

between those two buckets my guess is the staff sees about 8-10 openings. trick will be timing.

Great! Give us your names. You are another who presses for the 25 scholarship limit. In order to hit 25 scholarships, 9 players have to go. Who are they?

 

[Nittanygrad93]

Not saying these are gone but some in this group will be gone. All gonna be 5th year seniors except Barkely who is gone.

Also read today that Tommy Stevens graduates in the spring. He could transfer and play somewhere right away having 2 years left. I would especially be concerned he could follow Moorhead knowing his system at the new school.

Torrence Brown
Jake Cooper
Koa Farmer
Manny Bowen
Saquon Barkley (NFL)
Chaz Wright
Jonathan Thomas
Mark Allen
Nick Scott
DeAndre Thompkins

Out of this list, I would not want to lose Farmer and Thompkins. I think it would be hard to replace DeAndre's punt returning, and we need at least one LB with substantial playing experience.

I have a hunch Bowen is on his way out. I could also see a transfer from Zembiec, even if he has to sit out a year.

 

[Osprey Lion]

Don't give me this...you are one of the most vocal opponents of maxing out the 25 scholarships. Since you've probably made well over 250 posts on the subject you must have a list of who you want to leave. Post your list please. It will provide a lot of discussion.

IMHO is it inappropriate for us to discuss who we would like to see leave. There are probably
student athletes and relatives of them that read these boards.

 

[Delco Lion]

I would speculate that Andre Robinson, Sterling Jenkins, and Zembiec could possibly transfer.

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

This shouldn’t be a list of who we want to leave. We don’t want anyone to leave. It should more be around who could move on and why.

 

[Agoodnap]

This shouldn’t be a list of who we want to leave. We don’t want anyone to leave. It should more be around who could move on and why.

Ok, that's a good idea. We need to come up with 9 names and reasons they should leave PSU. Do you want to start?

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

Ok, that's a good idea. We need to come up with 9 names and reasons they should leave PSU. Do you want to start?

I think Saquon Barkley will turn Pro.

I think Tommy Stevens will graduate, start somewhere else for 2 years and have a great career as a starting QB.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

IMHO is it inappropriate for us to discuss who we would like to see leave. There are probably
student athletes and relatives of them that read these boards.

You're not a student athlete, but I'd like to see you "leave"

 

[dwiz]

Ok, that's a good idea. We need to come up with 9 names and reasons they should leave PSU. Do you want to start?

I don't really think WE need to do any of that. What's the purpose. Piss off the families?

 

[Agoodnap]

I think Saquon Barkley will turn Pro.

I think Tommy Stevens will graduate, start somewhere else for 2 years and have a great career as a starting QB.

Yes, let's assume Barkley leaves. I'm not so sure about Stevens so let's start with CJF's first class as someone suggested. Here are the ones from that class who will have eligibility next year.

Nbr Name Pos Grade Stats
21 Amani Oruwariye CB SR/JR 6-1/209
77 Chasz Wright OL SR/JR 6-7/358
3 DeAndre Thompkins WR SR/JR 5-11/187
20 Johnathan Thomas RB SR/JR 5-11/216
7 Koa Farmer LB SR/JR 6-1/237
8 Mark Allen RB SR/JR 5-6/180
4 Nick Scott S SR/JR 5-11/199
19 Torrence Brown DE SR/JR 6-3/257
9 Trace McSorley QB SR/JR 6-0/195 <<== I don't see him leaving.

 

[Agoodnap]

I don't really think WE need to do any of that. What's the purpose. Piss off the families?

Purpose is discussion. A lot of people want new guys so that means current players must leave...that's a fact.

 

[djr4rebs]

Question going forward: are we going to fill every recruiting class going forward with 25?

If yes, it means we are going to have to "process" players every year.

If no, we are going to be getting smaller recruiting classes going forward. For the ranking lovers, that means we are not going to be top 10 in the lean years.

I can, to an extent, understand the push to 25 this year. We are hitting on a lot of top kids that we just have not had in the program recently. Striking while the iron is hot makes sense. Going forward, we don't necessarily need 25 per year because we will be recruiting at a top level.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

We'll have a small class next year, and make up for it moving forward. If JF keeps up this level of recruiting, we will have a lot of guys leave after year 3, every year, like OSU does. That will allow the numbers to stay high. In essence they are 3 year scholarships, not 4.

 

[bdgan]

BIG 10 guarantees four year scholarships for football.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ntees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes

That's what they say but I wonder about the legal workarounds.

PSU has already recruited more than they have room for. What if none of the kids agree to leave voluntarily? Some kids will be 5th year seniors so I guess you could decide not to renew their scholarships.
Oruwariye
Brown
Wright
McSorley
Thompkins
J. Thomas
M. Allen

I don't think we want to lose most of those guys and I don't think any are NFL ready. But if every one of these kids plus Barkley left early that still wouldn't be enough to allow us to take 25.

 

[Mister Magoo]

I'd guess Barkley goes pro. J. Thomas, M. Allen, T. Brown and C. Wright are gone. There's 5. Zembiec leaves if Stevens stays. If Tommy stays it's for 2 years.

Not sure about last 3. Maybe, Barbir will leave.

 

[colt21]

Question going forward: are we going to fill every recruiting class going forward with 25?

If yes, it means we are going to have to "process" players every year.

If no, we are going to be getting smaller recruiting classes going forward. For the ranking lovers, that means we are not going to be top 10 in the lean years.

I can, to an extent, understand the push to 25 this year. We are hitting on a lot of top kids that we just have not had in the program recently. Striking while the iron is hot makes sense. Going forward, we don't necessarily need 25 per year because we will be recruiting at a top level.

Yes I believe no smaller than 20 going forward and more often than not between 22-25

I don’t consider it “processing” - I think CJF was very up front about his expectations about graduating in 3 1/2 years

Only need on average 8 kids per class to leave after three years for the math to work - if kids are graduated and/or moving on to the pros then PSU/CJF have done their jobs and kids are moving on in a positive manner

Of course some will move on for the wrong reasons but that will happen from time to time but the way to “reload” is to recruit well and have kids move on

 

[bdgan]

Yes I believe no smaller than 20 going forward and more often than not between 22-25

I don’t consider it “processing” - I think CJF was very up front about his expectations about graduating in 3 1/2 years

Only need on average 8 kids per class to leave after three years for the math to work - if kids are graduated and/or moving on to the pros then PSU/CJF have done their jobs and kids are moving on in a positive manner

Of course some will move on for the wrong reasons but that will happen from time to time but the way to “reload” is to recruit well and have kids move on

I wonder how many kids actually graduate in 3 1/2 years? Few regular students are able to do this and they don't have the athletic commitment. Also, some of these kids aren't the best students to begin with. I'd be surprised if 1/4 of them graduate in 3 1/2 years.

 

[colt21]

I wonder how many kids actually graduate in 3 1/2 years? Few regular students are able to do this and they don't have the athletic commitment. Also, some of these kids aren't the best students to begin with. I'd be surprised if 1/4 of them graduate in 3 1/2 years.

Don’t need them all to graduate that quick
Need some to go to NFL and unfortunately some will leave for wrong reasons

But regardless he needs them to leave to run the kind of program that he wants

 

[royboy]

I wonder how many kids actually graduate in 3 1/2 years? Few regular students are able to do this and they don't have the athletic commitment. Also, some of these kids aren't the best students to begin with. I'd be surprised if 1/4 of them graduate in 3 1/2 years.

No specific info on credit hours and progress toward graduation, but some of the players start college early (in January in some cases, and 1st semester summer school in other cases) and nearly all of them are on campus during part of the summer and take classes. So it's not unusual for them to accumulate enough credits to graduate or nearly graduate after 3 or 3.5 years.

We're speculating a lot about forcing players to leave, but we don't see any evidence of it.

 

[BarkleyPSU1]

Here's my list

LOCKS
Stevens/Zembiec - if Stevens wants to stay, Zembiec will leave since he will be the 4th QB at best
Johnathan Thomas - way buried on the depth chart
An O-Lineman (Jenkins, Gellerstedt, Martin, etc) - not enough playing time to go around
A WR (Charles, Darien, etc) - these guys have fallen on the depth chart
Saquon - obvious
A TE (Bowers, Dalton, Holland) - One will leave, Franklin won't keep five on the roster
A random freshman - usually happens every year, someone decides that playing at PSU isn't for them

MAYBES
Chasz Wright - Potential Grad Transfer but would be a top backup and has shown potential
Manny Bowen - Has found himself in the doghouse, don't know how severe his suspension is
Alex Barbir - Something has to be up for PSU to accept another scholarship kicker for 2018
Daniel Joseph/Ellison Jordan - little playing time in RSFR season, could look elsewhere
John Petrishen - little playing time, but he's been around longer
Mark Allen - Some think he's a lock, but he likes it here and seems to value the academics. We'll see

HIGHLY DOUBTFULS
Nick Scott - was a captain this year, will be competing for starter, I just don't see it
Torrence Brown - unless there are complications with the knee, he'll be back. Teammates love him
Koa Farmer - no idea why he would leave/declare, he'll be a starter, wouldn't go high in draft at all
Andre Robinson - has fallen behind Sanders, but things at RB get slim if/when Barkley, Allen, Thomas leave
Trace McSorley - highly, highly doubtful he declares, but stranger things have happened

 

[marshall23]

Pretty complicated so I'll go out on a limb and say that Franklin knows exactly what the number is and has already moved on to counting for the class of 19.

 

[Class of 67]

I wonder the same

I wonder how many kids actually graduate in 3 1/2 years? Few regular students are able to do this and they don't have the athletic commitment. Also, some of these kids aren't the best students to begin with. I'd be surprised if 1/4 of them graduate in 3 1/2 years.[/QUOTE I wonder the same. How in the world can a football player find the time to successfully manage a course load allowing them to graduate in 3 1/2 yrs? Do many attend summer semesters?

 

[Art]

Pretty complicated so I'll go out on a limb and say that Franklin knows exactly what the number is and has already moved on to counting for the class of 19.

They don't call you The Riverboat Gambler for nothing!

 

[dwiz]

I wonder how many kids actually graduate in 3 1/2 years? Few regular students are able to do this and they don't have the athletic commitment. Also, some of these kids aren't the best students to begin with. I'd be surprised if 1/4 of them graduate in 3 1/2 years.

It's so easy to graduate in 3.5 years when you do summer sessions. I actually almost did it on accident but I took non-necessary electives to stretch it out for 4 full years.

 

[mjh218]

Its also easy to graduate when you can get into the classes you want/need!

 

[NittanyOpp]

Doubt Tommy leaves. He has one year guaranteed starting here and is one injury to Trace from being the guy next year. Further, he does get into game action as is and that role will only grow next year.

 

[bdgan]

No specific info on credit hours and progress toward graduation, but some of the players start college early (in January in some cases, and 1st semester summer school in other cases) and nearly all of them are on campus during part of the summer and take classes. So it's not unusual for them to accumulate enough credits to graduate or nearly graduate after 3 or 3.5 years.

We're speculating a lot about forcing players to leave, but we don't see any evidence of it.

I understand that these kids take classes during the summer but I assume they take less than a full load during the season.

Forget about forcing kids out for the moment. Assume we sign 25 this year. That means 9 have to go. What if only 6 leave voluntarily?