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Regarding Jay Paterno's "Academic Standing" comments:


Joe Paterno's Speech to the BOT following his first National Championship

(Continued)

“I’m a football coach. I sit down with my staff and I look at our schedule and our squad and we say this is what we want to do and this is what we can do. And then we set priorities and make decisions as to how we can achieve our objectives. We put a plan together and we stick with it. We don’t jump from one plan to the other and we bust our butt to get it done. And that’s what has to be done with Penn State in the ‘80s. We can’t wait. It would be nice to say we can wait and in three years put together a major fund-raising campaign. We can’t wait. I am only telling you that as somebody who’s in the field. We can only hold up our finger as Number One for six more months and then we have to play the game again and we may not be Number One. Six short months to capture this magic moment. We have got to raise $7 to $10 million bucks as far as I’m concerned in the next six months or we are going to lose some things and an opportunity we have. How do you go about raising $7 to $10 million is somebody else’s concern. I’m willing to help in any way I can. We need $7 to $10 million in the next six months to get us the impetus that we need because we don’t want to lose it. I think we’ve got to take this magic moment and stick it in a jar and we’ve got to preserve it until we open it up in 1990.

“Dr. Eddy, the other day at an alumni meeting down at Pittsburgh where we had over a thousand people in Allegheny County. Stan was there and some of the others were there and the next night we went to Westmoreland County where we had over 580 people and they turned away 300 people. There is a great group out there right now wanting to get involved in it. Dr. Eddy said it the other night better than I can. He said, and he almost sounded like a football coach, we have a great chance and challenge to make our University Number One in many areas and in coming together to do it we may find out we will have as much fun doing it as we had fun doing it in New Orleans. It was a very moving speech and it hit home. I have had a lot of people come to me wanting to know how they can help. I said to you I have given 33 years, two daughters, and probably three sons to Penn State. I am ready to help where I can to make “Number One” mean more than when we stick that finger up it’s only football. We are losing a great President; we’re starting a new era. As Jim Tarman said the other night, we are fortunate that where we are that we’ve been able to get there our way. We’ve not cheated, I mean not deliberately, you never know with that thick rule book. We’ve done it with people who legitimately belong in college. We’ve set a standard in one area that I think created a challenge for us to reach in all of our areas. You are the people who are going to have to help us do it. There are a lot of us that want to get on with it.

“So, thank you very much for this wonderful resolution. I’m moved. I think you know how much I love this institution and how much I appreciate what it has meant to me and my family for 33 glorious years. 33 years of a great love affair that I have had with this place in this town. I have no regrets. I’m only anxious to get on with some other things to make it even bigger and better, not in a sense of size, but in the context of quality and influence in this country and in some of the things that I think it’s important for a major institution of this size to do. So, thank you very much. I hope I didn’t bore you with it too long.”

How many rolls of paper towels did you need after looking this up?
 
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Or, you could just research the information :) :


Dollars of Aid per Student (BigTen Conference):


$ Aid per Student

1) Northwestern (and no one else is even close)
2) Michigan
3) Iowa
4) Illinois
5) Wisconsin
6) Rutgers
7) Nebraska
8) Ohio State
9) Indiana
10) Michigan State
11) Minnesota
12) Purdue
13) Maryland
14) Penn State


Endowment (BigTen Conference):
2016 Filings


1) Northwestern $9.65 B
2) Michigan $9.74 B
(Depending on the day of the week, and the accounting method, wrt which - Michigan or Northwestern - reports the larger endowment)
3) Penn State $3.60 B
4) Ohio State $3.58 B
5) Minnesota $3.28 B
6) Wisconsin $2.42 B
7) Illinois $2.29 B
8) Purdue $2.26 B
9) Michigan State $2,23 B
10) Indiana $1.97 B
11) Nebraska $1.48 B

Iowa, Maryland, Rutgers either did not report - or were below $1.0 B

PSU - 3rd in Endowment, 14th (last) in student aid


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment


If anyone thinks they are "giving" to one of Penn State's Campaigns - in order to give to students - is ignorant.
If someone wants to benefit students, one would have to give directly in the form of gifts/scholarships (I do think Penn State now does allow donors to set up this option, but not in any of their highly-publicized "Campaigns")

This is seriously disappointing.
 
If the PSU admissions thresholds have lowered a bit, I'm not happy about it, but the real litmus test of academic quality is not the admissions standards, it's the graduation standards.

I'm generally for giving people as chance. I don't think a school is great because it keeps people out, although that's the perception paradigm for higher education. Tough to get in, must be a great school. I'm more interested in what the school does to change people, to add life value to the student, once the student has walked through the gates.

If Penn State has "dumbed down" its graduation standards, I have a big problem with that. Any such evidence?
 
If the PSU admissions thresholds have lowered a bit, I'm not happy about it, but the real litmus test of academic quality is not the admissions standards, it's the graduation standards.

I'm generally for giving people as chance. I don't think a school is great because it keeps people out, although that's the perception paradigm for higher education. Tough to get in, must be a great school. I'm more interested in what the school does to change people, to add life value to the student, once the student has walked through the gates.

If Penn State has "dumbed down" its graduation standards, I have a big problem with that. Any such evidence?

Dumbing down graduation standards? The only way you'll find proof of that is if someone is stupid enough to put it in writing. But with the crowd in charge of PSU, even that is a possibility.
 
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Is that figure for freshman admission to the University Park campus, or admission to Penn State inclusive of all the branch campuses? The PSU website lists the middle 50% SAT score of incoming freshmen at University Park as between 1230-1410, and only 1050-1270 for all the other campuses.

I am not sure of this, but believe (repeat believe) that is for those admitted--which is quite different than those who matriculate. It is that set of numbers that matter. Particularly when your matriculation rate is as low as PSUs is (somewhat unfair without adjusting to peers).
 
The why and what are you going to do about it are always what matters.
or as someone once told me, what without why is less than half the story
 
Cost is absolutely the #1 reason. I teach some of the brightest kids in my area, kids with perfect SAT scores, all AP classes, etc. One of them told me last year that she wanted to go to PSU but that even with having 30 credits earned through AP classes, that her 3 years needed at PSU was more than 4 years at some of her other choices. Her other choices were not crap schools either, VPI, MD, etc. They just gave her much nicer financial aid packages.
IMO, the value of a PSU education isn't there anymore. I attended UP for 4 years and manage an engineering division. Right now, I can hire a more qualified Penn College student vs. what I can get from Penn State. I have season tickets and my kids bleed blue and white but I wouldn't recommend that they go there right now.
 
Is that figure for freshman admission to the University Park campus, or admission to Penn State inclusive of all the branch campuses? The PSU website lists the middle 50% SAT score of incoming freshmen at University Park as between 1230-1410, and only 1050-1270 for all the other campuses.


Two of the schools ahead of PSU were not even members of the conference.

What was PSU's academic standing in Joe's last year?

I guess you don't want people to see the direction things were going while Joe was still here.
 
Right now, I can hire a more qualified Penn College student vs. what I can get from Penn State.


Nothing like adding practical experience to blackboard/textbook/lecture learning. When Penn State acquired what is now called Penn College, there was a notion that PSU engineering students would spend a semester in Williamsport learning practical applications. I was skeptical of that at the time and I've never heard of a UP student spending time at Penn College.

My bigger fear was that Penn State would try to turn Penn College into a university, when the market need and the niche for Penn College is rigorous, high-demand career and technical education. Penn College can be and should be one of the jewels in the PSU crown, if PSU academicians keep their hands off of it and fully engage business and industry in setting the standards there. Yes, we need engineers, but we need technicians and trade craft workers even more.
 
IMO, the value of a PSU education isn't there anymore. I attended UP for 4 years and manage an engineering division. Right now, I can hire a more qualified Penn College student vs. what I can get from Penn State. I have season tickets and my kids bleed blue and white but I wouldn't recommend that they go there right now.

The College of Engineering has had an interesting past few years to say the least.
 
Before I started teaching I was an engineer. My time in the engineering dept at PSU was not the nicest and it wasn't due to the difficulty of the material. Too many professors who dont care about teaching, but rather their research, writing another version of the textbook they require you to get for class that costs $150....

Went a couple years, got out, make less, but dont really care, too many Pitt guys where I worked anyhow...lol
 
2) The preference to bring in "Full Dues Paying" customers (Out-of-State Students, and higher-family-income students).The skewing of acceptances/enrollments to Out-of-State applicants has generated a marginal revenue increase to Penn State of just over $100,000,000.

A bit surprising that this would be a negative factor since I think out-of-state students tend to have higher profiles than in-state students.

Tuition seems to be the primary factor.
 
Yeah, Penn State is not at all an easy school to attend if you're a student from a low-income family.
Used to be. My dad was out of work during two of my years at PSU. I didn't miss a minute. Mind you, I started at Ogontz....
 
Nothing like adding practical experience to blackboard/textbook/lecture learning. When Penn State acquired what is now called Penn College, there was a notion that PSU engineering students would spend a semester in Williamsport learning practical applications. I was skeptical of that at the time and I've never heard of a UP student spending time at Penn College.

My bigger fear was that Penn State would try to turn Penn College into a university, when the market need and the niche for Penn College is rigorous, high-demand career and technical education. Penn College can be and should be one of the jewels in the PSU crown, if PSU academicians keep their hands off of it and fully engage business and industry in setting the standards there. Yes, we need engineers, but we need technicians and trade craft workers even more.
Our company is struggling to bring in mechanics, welders, instrument men, electricians and millwrights. The demand for skilled trades is through the roof. We are hiring guys off the street for north of $30/hr who we would never have looked at 20 years ago.

Every trades Union has opened up all their apprentice programs. Equipment Operators, IBEW, Boilermakers - they all have openings. What they do not have - is new apprentices.
 
Or, you could just research the information :) :


Dollars of Aid per Student (BigTen Conference):


$ Aid per Student

1) Northwestern (and no one else is even close)
2) Michigan
3) Iowa
4) Illinois
5) Wisconsin
6) Rutgers
7) Nebraska
8) Ohio State
9) Indiana
10) Michigan State
11) Minnesota
12) Purdue
13) Maryland
14) Penn State


Endowment (BigTen Conference):
2016 Filings


1) Northwestern $9.65 B
2) Michigan $9.74 B
(Depending on the day of the week, and the accounting method, wrt which - Michigan or Northwestern - reports the larger endowment)
3) Penn State $3.60 B
4) Ohio State $3.58 B
5) Minnesota $3.28 B
6) Wisconsin $2.42 B
7) Illinois $2.29 B
8) Purdue $2.26 B
9) Michigan State $2,23 B
10) Indiana $1.97 B
11) Nebraska $1.48 B

Iowa, Maryland, Rutgers either did not report - or were below $1.0 B

PSU - 3rd in Endowment, 14th (last) in student aid


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment


If anyone thinks they are "giving" to one of Penn State's Campaigns - in order to give to students - is ignorant.
If someone wants to benefit students, one would have to give directly in the form of gifts/scholarships (I do think Penn State now does allow donors to set up this option, but not in any of their highly-publicized "Campaigns")
What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can set up a scholarship if you donate to tge activation level. Even if you don’t, you can always request that your donation goes towards a pre-existing scholarship.

Did it ever occur to you that PSU is last in aid per student because we have 100k students?
 
You found time with all your source searches for the SI article on FLO?

FLO? Did SI do an article on Florence Griffith-Joyner?

ANYWAY ...........

Let it be noted that nobody --- including you 91Joe95 --- has provided any sort of article as I was looking for.
 
What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can set up a scholarship if you donate to tge activation level. Even if you don’t, you can always request that your donation goes towards a pre-existing scholarship.

Did it ever occur to you that PSU is last in aid per student because we have 100k students?
So do tOSU and Minnesota--or close to it.
 
What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can set up a scholarship if you donate to tge activation level. Even if you don’t, you can always request that your donation goes towards a pre-existing scholarship.

Did it ever occur to you that PSU is last in aid per student because we have 100k students?

Okay, let's play and look at some student aid figures in the aggregate:

(millions)
OSU- $350
Michigan- $132
Rutgers-$354
Illinois-$220
Minnesota- $307

PSU-$70

Next excuse.
 
Okay, let's play and look at some student aid figures in the aggregate:

(millions)
OSU- $350
Michigan- $132
Rutgers-$354
Illinois-$220
Minnesota- $307

PSU-$70

Next excuse.

Many, many factors involved in those numbers. One factor might be that more people donating money to OSU, Minnesota decide to donate their money to scholarships and other sources of financial aid than those donating to PSU.
 
Okay, let's play and look at some student aid figures in the aggregate:

(millions)
OSU- $350
Michigan- $132
Rutgers-$354
Illinois-$220
Minnesota- $307

PSU-$70

Next excuse.
Many factors go into it. Size of the student body, size of the endowment (or more specifically, the size of the endowments legally binded to student awards) and also state appropriation. Also, it is no secret that Spanier did not prioritize university supported scholarships. It wasn’t until Erickson became president that PSU started allocating serious funds for scholarships outside of endowments.
 
Many, many factors involved in those numbers. One factor might be that more people donating money to OSU, Minnesota decide to donate their money to scholarships and other sources of financial aid than those donating to PSU.

So it's the fault of the alumni (which says a shitload about the leadership)? Next excuse.

BTW, if you're right Barbour will have no problem paying for her Edifice Complex. Yeah, right.
 
Many factors go into it. Size of the student body, size of the endowment (or more specifically, the size of the endowments legally binded to student awards) and also state appropriation. Also, it is no secret that Spanier did not prioritize university supported scholarships. It wasn’t until Erickson became president that PSU started allocating serious funds for scholarships outside of endowments.

Of the schools named, only UMich has a larger endowment; Minnesota is comparable. Rutgers? Not even close. And, if your point had any validity, the amount of aid would yo-yo like the market and it doesn't.

But, you're right, there are many factors involved, and the same factors also go into the cost of attendance. All this demonstrates is that the leadership of the other schools are a hell of better at managing them than Indiana Fats & Co are.
 
So what’s your point? All of those students are eligible for scholarships.
Most of the World Campus students are likely part time--and I doubt scholarships extend to them. That said, I think Art's chart says is all. I was not able to find figures for 2016 for PSU, but in 2012, giving was a bit over 200 mil, while at tOSU/Indiana/Northwestern in 2016, giving was between 350M and 400M (Michigan was more). Even prorated, you'd expect PSU to be a lot more than 70M for student aid.

But then again there were those pesky sanctions and payouts to victims....
 
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Of the schools named, only UMich has a larger endowment; Minnesota is comparable. Rutgers? Not even close. And, if your point had any validity, the amount of aid would yo-yo like the market and it doesn't.

But, you're right, there are many factors involved, and the same factors also go into the cost of attendance. All this demonstrates is that the leadership of the other schools are a hell of better at managing them than Indiana Fats & Co are.
Endowment spending across all universities are capped (typically around 5%). They do this to ensure the health and growth of the endowment. If you have a year of 10% growth, you do not have 10% spending.

In other words, you are talking out of your ass because you don’t understand how endowments work.
 
Most of the World Campus students are likely part time--and I doubt scholarships extend to them. That said, I think Art's chart says is all. I was not able to find figures for 2016 for PSU, but in 2012, giving was a bit over 200 mil, while at tOSU/Indiana/Northwestern in 2016, giving was between 350M and 400M (Michigan was more). Even prorated, you'd expect PSU to be a lot more than 70M for student aid.

But then again there were those pesky sanctions and payouts to victims....
World Campus students absolutely get scholarships. Every student is different and as such, the availability for scholarships for each student is different. However, unless the student is in poor academic standing and has no need, scholarships are available to practically all of them.
 
Endowment spending across all universities are capped (typically around 5%). They do this to ensure the health and growth of the endowment. If you have a year of 10% growth, you do not have 10% spending.

In other words, you are talking out of your ass because you don’t understand how endowments work.

I was arguing that it wasn't the endowment, stupid, and you just helped (btw. spending caps are overall, though universities attempt to enforce them at the gift level. A person establishing the corpus of the endowment can specify distribution/retention levels, with adjustments made elsewhere if required. A university can, of course, refuse to take and endowment gift if it deems the conditions to be imprudent, but I've yet to see it happen for that reason).

Thanks for playing, asshole. Next excuse.
 
I was arguing that it wasn't the endowment, stupid, and you just helped (btw. spending caps are overall, though universities attempt to enforce them at the gift level. A person establishing the corpus of the endowment can specify distribution/retention levels, with adjustments made elsewhere if required. A university can, of course, refuse to take and endowment gift if it deems the conditions to be imprudent, but I've yet to see it happen for that reason).

Thanks for playing, asshole. Next excuse.
No, you are still a moron. Can you tell me how much of Penn State’s endowment is legally binded to be for student support and how much is for program support? How much of it is a blend of the two with the choice on how to spend the endowment given to the professor/dean? And I ask the same question for those other Universities in your example. Give those figures and then you can have an intelligent conversation as to how the endowment affects scholarship spending.
 
World Campus students absolutely get scholarships. Every student is different and as such, the availability for scholarships for each student is different. However, unless the student is in poor academic standing and has no need, scholarships are available to practically all of them.

World Campus students do not get scholarships of any significant value.

It's untrue to say World Campus students aren't eligible however the amount available is akin to pissing on a forest fire.
 
No, you are still a moron. Can you tell me how much of Penn State’s endowment is legally binded to be for student support and how much is for program support? How much of it is a blend of the two with the choice on how to spend the endowment given to the professor/dean? And I ask the same question for those other Universities in your example. Give those figures and then you can have an intelligent conversation as to how the endowment affects scholarship spending.

"Binded?" Is that English? No matter, the proper term is restricted.

Since you have your finger on the pulse of the finances of PSU, why don't you explain everything to us? But frankly, I really don't give a shit. Compared to its peers, PSU's tuition is high and levels of financial aid pathetic. The results speak for themselves, unless you're an academic or someone who's busy sucking academic ass. Only in academia do those breeds manage to survive.
 
"Binded?" Is that English? No matter, the proper term is restricted.

Since you have your finger on the pulse of the finances of PSU, why don't you explain everything to us? But frankly, I really don't give a shit. Compared to its peers, PSU's tuition is high and levels of financial aid pathetic. The results speak for themselves, unless you're an academic or someone who's busy sucking academic ass. Only in academia do those breeds manage to survive.
Look at that bailout posting, lol. It’s quite obvious that you cannot provide the answer to my questions because you have no clue as to what the blend is for the endowment at any university, let alone Penn State’s.
 
Look at that bailout posting, lol. It’s quite obvious that you cannot provide the answer to my questions because you have no clue as to what the blend is for the endowment at any university, let alone Penn State’s.

And if you had the answer, we'd have read it by now. Until then it remains: PSU ranks at the bottom of the Big Ten when it comes to providing its students with financial aid. Too bad Indiana Fats's comp doesn't enjoy a similar ranking. Man must be really good at something.
 
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