Everything will work itself out. However, assessing next season and assuming relative good health across the board Nolf probably wrestles 57 and Cenzo will wrestle 165. Cenzo will be as difficult to beat at 165 as Nolf is to beat at 57. Those kids see what goes on everyday, and they already have some idea of where people will and will not fit next year, and there is a strong desire to have Joseph in the lineup next season.
Release: Vincenzo Joseph (165) & Jared Cortez (141) win titles at Messiah Open
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+1 These things have a way of working themselves out. Between injuries, kids getting disillusioned with a school, decisions to transfer, growth, etc. all of this is fun to talk about but hard to predict. Conaway is a great example. Many were predicting several years ago that he wouldn't ever start again and here he is trying to become an 2x AA.
Honest question, because I have no idea as to the answer. Would Cutch's height place him at too much a disadvantage to bump up to 197? Or is this not a concern at all?
I think Cutch would be at a disadvantage at 197. He is already pretty well filled out at 184, and might have difficulty putting on good weight to get to 197. And, like you say, he is limited by his frame (height).
I generally agree, but let me take the opposite side for discussion purposes:
197 is a SR laden weight. If Mouse went there next year, he might be as high as #3 behind Cox and Pfarr. Haught is a SO, and so is Boykin. Solomon is also a SO, he would be very good back at 197 if Rizzo ever lived up to his potential.
I'm probably forgetting some people, but you get the idea: he's probably not beating Cox or Pfarr next year, but would be a good bet for the podium. Then he could make a run in 2018 since the weight clears out.
Of course, Cassar could have a lot to say about this as well.
That seems to be the consensus, but then he needs to be prepare to beat Nolf if he moves up in the next several years. Otherwise he could end up in a situation like Marstellar, where the option to be a starter is to cut so much weight as to impact your wrestling.
Unless Nolf has to, I doubt he moves up at very least for another year. 1) Jason seems to be very easily making 157 and 2) he seems to really be a team first guy who won't bump unless he feels he has to
So if in a few years Nolf grows to 165, Hall enters at 174, Nickal jumps to 184 when McCutch departs, then Cenzo has to beat one of those or sit. If Nolf cannot make 157 any longer are you going to sit because Cenzo is at 165?
Perhaps Hall takes a grey shirt (otc) during the next school year. This leaves less overlap between he and Bo, Nolf,Rasheed, and Mouse. Somebody is not going to be 4 year starter in the heart of a historically tough upper middle lineup. I'm guessing Cael has a plan, but that plan includes the cream rising to the top. Matt Brown had to wait for a spot and had a great career.
What happens next year, oh my will that impact the year after or maybe the impact won't be felt for 3, 4 or 5 years.
As we move forward things that we can not begin to perceive will occur and others we plan on won't happen the way we planned.
Things like damaged shoulders or torn pectoral muscles or weight management issues will occur, and people like Jordan Conaway, James English or Matt Brown will step up and develop.
As I posted, things will work themselves out.
No, but we could very well see Hall take two years off. If Cenzo is up to 165 already we could very possibly see him at 174 at some point. Who knows? But it's a nice problem to have
Indeed a good problem. I probably won't lose sleep thinking about Cael and all of his problems. You just get the feeling things will be ok.
Man, I wish I had such problems! Cael is following a plan and will adjust as necessary. No worries on this end at all about this supposed "logjam".
Amen to that. I don't understand why people get so worried about where everyone will fit in the lineup. I never worry about things over which I have no control. Plus, these are NOT problems, they are DEPTH. That depth won us the team title in 2014 where we don't win the team title without English's points at 149.
It is a great problem to have that any other team in the nation would love to have. I think Joseph is going to be too good to not wrestle at 65 next year. I see the lineup as Nolf, Joseph, Nickal, McCutcheon, Cassar/Rasheed, Nevills for 2016-2017 with Hall and Manville Redshirting or Greyshirting.
The following year is interesting based upon the growth of Nolf and what Hall decides to do. I think its a strong possibility Hall Greyshirts and then Redshirts and then enters the lineup at 174 once McCutcheon graduates and Nickal moves up to 184. If Hall wrestles in 2017-2018, I would look for a lineup of Nolf, Joseph, Hall, Nickal/McCutcheon (Nickal has the frame to jump McCutcheon), Nevills. Once McCutcheon graduates the picture is a little clearer, but hes also too good to keep out of the lineup. It is scary to think about, but I honestly think with a lineup of Lee, Suriano, Cortez, Retherford, Nolf, Joseph, Hall, McCutcheon, Nickal, Nevills in 2017-2018, we would set the record for most points at NCAA's and realistically have a chance at a finalist at almost every weight.... WOW
The following year is interesting based upon the growth of Nolf and what Hall decides to do. I think its a strong possibility Hall Greyshirts and then Redshirts and then enters the lineup at 174 once McCutcheon graduates and Nickal moves up to 184. If Hall wrestles in 2017-2018, I would look for a lineup of Nolf, Joseph, Hall, Nickal/McCutcheon (Nickal has the frame to jump McCutcheon), Nevills. Once McCutcheon graduates the picture is a little clearer, but hes also too good to keep out of the lineup. It is scary to think about, but I honestly think with a lineup of Lee, Suriano, Cortez, Retherford, Nolf, Joseph, Hall, McCutcheon, Nickal, Nevills in 2017-2018, we would set the record for most points at NCAA's and realistically have a chance at a finalist at almost every weight.... WOW
Mason Manville is coming too, and he doesn't shy away from a challenge. It is a bounty of talent and it is so hard to guess who will rise. Rasheed has that tall body too, could he be a 184 in a couple of years? Every other team would love that problem.
I'll try and stay focused on the rest of this year, BUT, thinking about the possibility of that lineup... WOW is right! The sky would be the limit!
Rasheed goes up 3 weight classes in 1 year?
30+ lb of muscle in 1 offseason would be highly aggressive for Barry Bonds using "the cream" and "the clear."
He would definitely need to hit the weights hard and would still be on the small side for 97 but I don't think he beats out Nickal or McCutcheon. I think Rasheed has a ton of talent and might see his best chance at 97 against Cassar assuming he enrolls in the fall. I would bet he walks around around 185 in the offseason? Rodrigues from Illinois just went up 25lbs in a year and is better than he has ever been. It could be done
True....but if Rasheed is cutting say 15-20 pounds at the present time and weighs around 185 post season it is not that hard to picture him in that 184 lb. range next year. He looks like a young man still developing to my eyes. I could certainly see him blossoming into a big strong 184 down the road. Mouse has really improved and is so solid, but it is harder to project him at 197 due to his height. It will be interesting to say the least. So many capable bodies.
Brian,
I believe the family situation (divorce) had a major impact on his financial support. Could not come up with the tuition money for this semester. Do not no specific about the terms of the separation but likely $$$ impact means more time needed to work for the money needed to enroll.
I do not know if he gets much in scholarship money.
Fantastic thread, very informative. It has certainly helped pass the time between matches.
Can anyone speculate on the feasibility of Manville slotting in to 157 in 2+ years out? Also, I have to think Cael is the favorite to get S. Lee. but anyone know who Psu is competing with to get him?
Can anyone speculate on the feasibility of Manville slotting in to 157 in 2+ years out? Also, I have to think Cael is the favorite to get S. Lee. but anyone know who Psu is competing with to get him?
If he does naturally weigh 185, he needs a good solid 15 pounds of muscle weight to be a legitimate 97 pounder. Not the normal amount of yearly muscle mass gain, but doable. Weight management becomes much easier.
Spencer's parents bought a farm in the middle of Iowa City, Young Gun's is direct pipeline to Iowa City and the Hawkeye Wrestling Club has purchased an Iowa bride for the young man. This is all true because it has been posted on the Hawkeye Report.
Not even close to normal if you are already fully grown, however he isn't. Hey baby blue whales add 200 pounds a day so 15 pounds in a year sounds easy.
That would be unusual.
Here's a progression through weight classes (and one of the largest progressions I'm aware of at PSU) of our guy Quentin Wright
2008 -- Junior FILA World Champ at 163 (74 Kg)
2009 -- 6th NCAA as true freshman 174#
2010 -- redshirt
2011 -- national champ at 184#
2012 -- #2 at NCAA at 184#
2013 -- national champ at 197#
This was a guy who was tall and fairly slender when he started; he did move up successfully, but it took time, never skipped a weight class
And Q wrestled 125 as a frosh in HS. Same class and Bosak wrestled 112 as a frosh in HS. No telling how much kids will grow.
The best way I know to look at how much a kid can grow is to look at Mom & Dad. Works most of the time!!
Most adults can eat perfect, train perfect and hopefully gain 4 or 5 pounds of pure muscle.Not even close to normal if you are already fully grown, however he isn't. Hey baby blue whales add 200 pounds a day so 15 pounds in a year sounds easy.
You can tell by looking at Rasheed his physique is not yet mature. Sometime in the near future this kid is going to pack on some serious muscle, might as well be this year.
Presumably Rasheed has already hit puberty.
And the question is about 1-yr growth, not 4-yr growth.
Every D1 program. He will be every bit as much in demand as Mark Hall. Maybe even more, given how hard it is to find 125s.
