Roster vs 1994

[tboyer]

We'll be hearing a lot about the 1994 team this year for the 25th anniversary. Obviously this is a young team and at this point it's all potential, so you can't really compare, but for sheer raw athletic talent it seems to me this is the closest Penn State has come to the 1994 roster.

Obviously freshmen play more now so the 2019 team goes deeper. But the 1994 D even for its time didn't have great defensive depth, and that meant they sometimes gave up points in bunches. This team is considerably deeper at DL, LB and corner.

Please correct me if I'm missing anybody, thanks.

QB:
1994:Collins, Richardson
2019: Clifford, Levis
(no comparison at this point, but Clifford, like Mr. Collins, is known for deep-ball accuracy).

Running backs:
1994: Carter, Archie, Pitts, Milne, Witman (and more)
2019: Slade, Brown, Cain, Ford
(Crazy depth on both teams - they used that depth in 1994 and will this year too)

Receivers:
1994: Engram, Scott, Jurevicius,P Collins,C Campbell
2019: Hamler, Dotson, Shorter, Sullivan-Brown, George
(Young and still proving themselves but some parallels I think -- Hamler does some of the what Archie did, Dotson is an Engram-type player, Shorter is big and fast like JJ.)

TE:
1994: Brady, Olsommer
2019: Friermuth, Bowers, Kuntz, Strange
(Friermuth only in 2nd year but he clearly has the potential to be PSU's best since Brady, and the depth is great)

OL:
1994: Rivera, Johnson, Hartings, Greeley, Conlin, Tielsch, Henderson
2014: Miranda, Thorpe, Gonzo, Menet, Holmes, Fries, Wormley, Wallace, Walker, Whigan
(Here there's really no comparison....... 1994 was a once in a lifetime OL. 2019 striving to be one of the better OLs in the conference at this point. 2019 does has more depth)

DL:
1994: Clair, Noble, Scioli, Snyder, Atkins, Maczyk
2019: Windsor, Shelton, Mustipher, Hansard, Barber, Culpepper, Gross-Matos, Toney, Simmons, Oweh, Joseph, Isaac
(Some wonderful players in 2014, but 2019's depth makes this no contest)

SAF:
1994: Herring, Holes, King
2019: Taylor, Wade, Sutherland, Brisker, Hartlaub
(Herring was an AA and future pro, but depth is better in 2019)

CB:
1994: Miller, Tate, Pittman, Dingle
2019: Reid, Castro-Fields, Ellis, D Johnson, Porter, Gordon, DJ Brown
(Depth no contest)

LB:
1994: Gelzheiser, Smith, Yeboah-Kodie, Killens
2019: Brown, Johnson, Parsons, Luketa, Brooks, Smith, Dixon, Katshir
(Depth no contest)

P
1994: Kania and JJ (36 average)
2019: Gilliken (44 average)

K
1994: Conway
2019: Pinegar, Stoudt

 

[BrucePa]

Are you in any way suggesting that when November 16th comes along, Penn State will empty the bench and be jumped by Indiana, only to squeak out a 35-29 win?

 

[lj4heisman1]

1994 psu had arguably the best offense in college football history

 

[Raffycorn]

I have come to believe pretty forcefully that this will be our best team since 1994. The 2019 defense is/will be superior to 1994’s (though, to be honest, we’ve had more than a few defenses since then that you could say that about), and the team’s ceiling will be determined by how close we can get on offense to what 1994 brought.

I tend to think that this team is closer to 2016’s team but with a better defense. But the fact that you can make a plausible comparison between 2019 and 1994 is telling - in a very, very good way.

 

[Nitt1300]

2019 1-0
1994 12-0

let's wait just a bit on the comparisons

 

[phillybillyreprise]

63-14?!?!?

 

[tboyer]

God I hope not. If it comes to that, I hope Franklin tries to hang 60 or 70 points on Indiana just to leave no doubt.

(And btw, the Indiana game wasn't just a total fluke. The flurry of scoring at the end was truly a reflection of PSU's lack of defensive depth. Indiana brought in a second string QB with a really good arm and PSU had some pretty raw people in the secondary who weren't ready. Still, the game wasn't in doubt and the AP voters should have known that.)

Are you in any way suggesting that when November 16th comes along, Penn State will empty the bench and be jumped by Indiana, only to squeak out a 35-29 win?

 

[danvillenit]

OL more depth in 2019? I don’t believe that without seeing the 1994 second string. Same with other areas you claim 2019 has better depth.

Dotson an Engram type player? I guess although he hasn’t done anything yet. Same with Clifford

You compare RB depth but fail to mention one of the 1994 RBs was the #1 draft pick

To make a comparison to 1994 at this point is rediculous, especially on offense

 

[tboyer]

63-14 was incredible but that was a very young Ohio State team and if they hadn't lost Eddie George in the 1st half that would have been a competitive game. After George they had to play a true freshman tailback who wasn't ready, and they were not a great passing team.

63-14?!?!?

 

[tboyer]

You ARE basically seeing the 1994 second string. That's my point. There wasn't a lot of depth on the D - and they had to play a ton of snaps because the O was so explosive. Freshmen generally didn't play at that at that time and Paterno's 1993 and 1994 recruiting classes were not of the caliber of the previous three years.

OL more depth in 2019? I don’t believe that without seeing the 1994 second string. Same with other areas you claim 2019 has better depth.

Dotson an Engram type player? I guess although he hasn’t done anything yet. Same with Clifford.

Just looking at raw talent here. Obviously 2019 players are just starting their careers. If you saw Engram play, Dotson is similar in a lot of ways. Engram as a freshman had a quiet but good year. It was his second season (after a year long suspension) that he blew up.

 

[Connorpozlee]

The ‘94 team would have beaten Idaho by a thousand or so.

 

[marshall23]

I'd pump the brakes on mentioning this team with 94. That team may have been a top 10 team all time.

 

[rohrmd9]

63-14 was incredible but that was a very young Ohio State team and if they hadn't lost Eddie George in the 1st half that would have been a competitive game. After George they had to play a true freshman tailback who wasn't ready, and they were not a great passing team.

George was good but there’s no way he’s a 50-point difference. We still woulda won that game quite comfortably. We coulda hung 100 on them that day if we didn’t call off the dogs.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

An interesting discussion point. Clearly, it's far too early to compare this team to the 1994 team. And I'd be stunned if this team even approaches '94.

The only area where I think the 2019 compares favorably on paper is talent at the WR position. Engram, Scott, and Brady vs. Hamler, Shorter, Dotson, and Freiermuth is an interesting comparison.

Collins won the Maxwell and O'Brien awards for a reason. Ki-Jana Heisman runner up and #1 draft pick. The O-line differential is enormous. Even if this current line develops and plays above expectations, that '94 O-line was a once-in-a-generation line.

Our current defense is almost certainly the better of the two. But that '94 offense was far too dominant for this 2019 team to overcome, regardless of how much better the 2019 defense might be.

 

[ralphster]

Clifford's ability to not make bad decisions, along with the OL turning out to be the best we've seen in the Franklin era will determine if this team is as good as 1994.

The D is better, no question. The TE, WR, and RB rooms are probably equal. All that I can really question compared to 1994 is QB and OL.

 

[Option Bob]

63-14 was incredible but that was a very young Ohio State team and if they hadn't lost Eddie George in the 1st half that would have been a competitive game. After George they had to play a true freshman tailback who wasn't ready, and they were not a great passing team.

Penn State led 35-0 at the half ... what exactly would George have done to make the game competitive in the 2nd half?

 

[Nitwit97]

Are you in any way suggesting that when November 16th comes along, Penn State will empty the bench and be jumped by Indiana, only to squeak out a 35-29 win?

I will take the Ohio State result, a nice 63-14 ass beating would be EPIC!!!!

 

[danvillenit]

Clifford's ability to not make bad decisions, along with the OL turning out to be the best we've seen in the Franklin era will determine if this team is as good as 1994.

The D is better, no question. The TE, WR, and RB rooms are probably equal. All that I can really question compared to 1994 is QB and OL.

 

[danvillenit]

If Freiermuth and one of the RBs are drafted in the first round I might agree the rooms are equal. Until then they are not.

 

[MacNit07]

1994 was the greatest offense in College Football history.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I’d put the 94 offense way ahead of the 19 offense, but the 19 defense is head and shoulders above the 94 defense. I think the 94 offense is the best all time for PSU, and in the conversation for all of CFB. There were lots of fantastic defenses, but the 86 and 99 stand out to me. I’m hoping that we have enough talent and execution for both the O and D this season.

 

[phillybillyreprise]

“I am not going to get carried with one win. I am pleased, but it is not the end of the road .”
JVP

 

[tboyer]

Penn State led 35-0 at the half ... what exactly would George have done to make the game competitive in the 2nd half?

Do you remember -- it was within a touchdown at the time George went down. The whole complexion changed after that because Pepe Pearson was a true freshmen and not physically ready to play B1G football. It was unusual for Ohio State not to have a capable backup TB but they didn't -- they had previously had injuries at the position I think.

Ohio State's only path to victory in that game was to grind it out on the ground and keep the PSU offense off the field.

If they had Eddie George, I'm not suggesting they would have won. PSU had that offense and they were cooking that day. But it would have been a much more competitive game.

Trivia question -- who made the tough ankle tackle of Eddie George that took him out of the game?

 

[NittanyIllinois]

I’d put the 94 offense way ahead of the 19 offense, but the 19 defense is head and shoulders above the 94 defense. I think the 94 offense is the best all time for PSU, and in the conversation for all of CFB. There were lots of fantastic defenses, but the 86 and 99 stand out to me. I’m hoping that we have enough talent and execution for both the O and D this season.

'69 was before my time, but hard not to include a team featuring Mike Reid, Jack Ham, and Dennis Onkotz -- allowing about 8 points/game -- as one of the better defenses in CFB over the past 50 years.

Being the 50th anniversary of that team, this defense is a fitting tribute to the '69 team. Perhaps the best defense since the mid-2000s at least. Still, not convinced they'd be able to hold the 1994 team to less than 30 points.

 

[Ranger Dan]

'69 was before my time, but hard not to include a team featuring Mike Reid, Jack Ham, and Dennis Onkotz -- allowing about 8 points/game -- as one of the better defenses in CFB over the past 50 years.

Being the 50th anniversary of that team, this defense is a fitting tribute to the '69 team. Perhaps the best defense since the mid-2000s at least. Still, not convinced they'd be able to hold the 1994 team to less than 30 points.

I was 2 years old. I’ll take your word for it though...

 

[tboyer]

Penn State led 35-0 at the half ... what exactly would George have done to make the game competitive in the 2nd half?

When George went down PSU was up by 7 and Ohio State was driving. Instead, they punted, PSU had two quick scores (punctuated by an incredible Engram catch that seemed to stun the OSU D), Ohio State couldn't run their offense, and by halftime the game was out of hand. Next time BTN shows the game (lemme guess, NEVER) you can see for yourself.

 

[tboyer]

If Freiermuth and one of the RBs are drafted in the first round I might agree the rooms are equal. Until then they are not.

Impossible to predict whom but there are going to be some high draft picks out of this offense. I'd guess more high draft picks out of the D though.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

I think the OP should re-write with the 93 team. Lot of the same players but I think 19 is a better comparison to 93 than 94. But who knows.

 

[tboyer]

I'm certainly not arguing "better" at this point. Let them beat Michigan State, let alone win a championship. But for raw athletic potential this is quite a group. Basically 50 former four stars and five stars -- and they are looking like 4 stars and 5 stars in the early and not-so-early action. It's going to be a fun next couple of seasons.

Clifford's ability to not make bad decisions, along with the OL turning out to be the best we've seen in the Franklin era will determine if this team is as good as 1994.

The D is better, no question. The TE, WR, and RB rooms are probably equal. All that I can really question compared to 1994 is QB and OL.

 

[JusticeBarkley]

We'll be hearing a lot about the 1994 team this year for the 25th anniversary. Obviously this is a young team and at this point it's all potential, so you can't really compare, but for sheer raw athletic talent it seems to me this is the closest Penn State has come to the 1994 roster.

Obviously freshmen play more now so the 2019 team goes deeper. But the 1994 D even for its time didn't have great defensive depth, and that meant they sometimes gave up points in bunches. This team is considerably deeper at DL, LB and corner.

Please correct me if I'm missing anybody, thanks.

QB:
1994:Collins, Richardson
2019: Clifford, Levis
(no comparison at this point, but Clifford, like Mr. Collins, is known for deep-ball accuracy).

Running backs:
1994: Carter, Archie, Pitts, Milne, Witman (and more)
2019: Slade, Brown, Cain, Ford
(Crazy depth on both teams - they used that depth in 1994 and will this year too)

Receivers:
1994: Engram, Scott, Jurevicius,P Collins,C Campbell
2019: Hamler, Dotson, Shorter, Sullivan-Brown, George
(Young and still proving themselves but some parallels I think -- Hamler does some of the what Archie did, Dotson is an Engram-type player, Shorter is big and fast like JJ.)

TE:
1994: Brady, Olsommer
2019: Friermuth, Bowers, Kuntz, Strange
(Friermuth only in 2nd year but he clearly has the potential to be PSU's best since Brady, and the depth is great)

OL:
1994: Rivera, Johnson, Hartings, Greeley, Conlin, Tielsch, Henderson
2014: Miranda, Thorpe, Gonzo, Menet, Holmes, Fries, Wormley, Wallace, Walker, Whigan
(Here there's really no comparison....... 1994 was a once in a lifetime OL. 2019 striving to be one of the better OLs in the conference at this point. 2019 does has more depth)

DL:
1994: Clair, Noble, Scioli, Snyder, Atkins, Maczyk
2019: Windsor, Shelton, Mustipher, Hansard, Barber, Culpepper, Gross-Matos, Toney, Simmons, Oweh, Joseph, Isaac
(Some wonderful players in 2014, but 2019's depth makes this no contest)

SAF:
1994: Herring, Holes, King
2019: Taylor, Wade, Sutherland, Brisker, Hartlaub
(Herring was an AA and future pro, but depth is better in 2019)

CB:
1994: Miller, Tate, Pittman, Dingle
2019: Reid, Castro-Fields, Ellis, D Johnson, Porter, Gordon, DJ Brown
(Depth no contest)

LB:
1994: Gelzheiser, Smith, Yeboah-Kodie, Killens
2019: Brown, Johnson, Parsons, Luketa, Brooks, Smith, Dixon, Katshir
(Depth no contest)

P
1994: Kania and JJ (36 average)
2019: Gilliken (44 average)

K
1994: Conway
2019: Pinegar, Stoudt

This post is why we shouldn't be allowed to play teams like Idaho. There's no comparison between the two teams.

 

[redrockgrizzly]

The 1 thing that separates the 1994 team from the 2019 team is the offensive line and it’s not even close.

 

[tboyer]

I think the OP should re-write with the 93 team. Lot of the same players but I think 19 is a better comparison to 93 than 94. But who knows.

'94 was a lot more experienced than 2019, for sure, no contest there. In terms of predicting the year, '93 might be a better season to look at. That team looked dominant at times (beat Hayden Fry 31-0 at Kinnick) but couldn't beat Ohio State or Michigan.

My original post wasn't to argue that this team will go undefeated. I was simply suggesting that it might be the most talented roster PSU has had since 94.

The later '90s teams had some great players but the whole program was losing steam and not recruiting as well -- yeah, 99 was a great class but the overall trend was down. Then LJ Sr. and Vandy turned around the defensive program, and Hall and Jaypa woke up the offense, and the '05 class came in and PSU was back.

Still, through the end of the Paterno era they never had talent across the board like this team has. JoePa really struggled recruiting running backs for the latter part of his career, which was such a contrast to the 1st half of his career.
.

 

[IANit]

1994 psu had arguably the best offense in college football history

Funny thing about that as I was thinking about it after the 79-point effort Saturday - the1994 offense never scored over 63 points. But that's because we were usually resting the starters by half-time and probably just not trying to embarrass other teams/get anyone hurt. We were up 35-3 at the half on Minny (56-3 final), 35-0 at the half on USC (38-14 final), 42-0 early 2nd quarter when the starters were pulled on Iowa (61-21 final), 35-0 on Ohio State (63-14 final). Only two games were really competitive (at Illinois - had all kinds of weird things go on before the game and fell behind 21-0 early and at Michigan - won by 7 but could have been more) and we showed we could outscore them to win when needed. I think we had the highest points scored against every team that season but one. That team could have scored pretty much any number it wanted most weeks. If you watch the highlights the defense and special teams weren't that bad, either. They made a lot of plays. When they really needed a stop they got it.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

Funny thing about that as I was thinking about it after the 79-point effort Saturday - the1994 offense never scored over 63 points. But that's because we were usually resting the starters by half-time and probably just not trying to embarrass other teams/get anyone hurt. We were up 35-3 at the half on Minny (56-3 final), 35-0 at the half on USC (38-14 final), 42-0 early 2nd quarter when the starters were pulled on Iowa (61-21 final), 35-0 on Ohio State (63-14 final). Only two games were really competitive (at Illinois - had all kinds of weird things go on before the game and fell behind 21-0 early and at Michigan - won by 7 but could have been more) and we showed we could outscore them to win when needed. I think we had the highest points scored against every team that season but one. That team could have scored pretty much any number it wanted most weeks. If you watch the highlights the defense and special teams weren't that bad, either. They made a lot of plays. When they really needed a stop they got it.

Yep, that's really important to take into account when factoring in points/game, yards/game, and other categories that people use when determining the "best ever".

I went to the Idaho game with a non-PSU friend of mine, and explained to him the difference between a Paterno and a Franklin in these scenarios. While Franklin pulled the starters early, he expects the backups to execute at full speed, and thus expect a score into the 70s. Joe, on the other hand, would call off the dogs entirely and resort to clock-killing drives with few points in the second half of blowouts.

Case in point.......2005 @ Illinois. We literally could have scored 110 points on Illinois that night, going into halftime up 56-3. And yet we only scored one additional TD in the second half. I don't think we threw the ball once in the final 20 minutes of the game. Also, the LJ2K game against Sparty. LJ could have won the Heisman that night by rushing for 450 yards and 7 TDs if he wanted to. But Joe wouldn't allow it.

When you consider that the '94 team averaged 48 points/game under a Paterno that routinely called off the dogs early, that's quite incredible. The only offenses I can think of that can make a good case for being better were 1995 Nebraska and perhaps the 2005 USC team.

 

[Option Bob]

I was 2 years old. I’ll take your word for it though...

Dan, I’d like to add some data about that 1969 team for you.

In going 11-0, it allowed only 90 points ... writer of The Football Letter Ridge Riley stated that of those 90, 47 came in the 4th quarter when most games were decided against reserves. I tried to find that issue, but couldn’t. But just as examples OTTOMH, Navy scored 15 and Kansas State 14 in the 4th when the games were basically over.

The defense intercepted 31 passes in those 11 games ... in an era where passing was not so prevalent as it is today. Safety Neal Smith had 12 all by himself.

I still buy the old baseball adage of “be strong up the middle.” That ‘69 defense had All Americans at DT, ILB, and FS in Mike Reid, Dennis Onkotz, and Neal Smith. The other DT was Steve Smear, a 2nd team AA; the other ILB was JIm Kates.

West Va entered the Penn State game undefeated with the nation’s #1 rushing offense. Penn State shut them down 20-0, the first shutout in 40 games for the Mountaineers.

Colorado QB was an AA candidate at QB when he entered the PSU game. The defense so thoroughly shut him down that the record-setting Big 8 total offense player was held to 5 yards.

In the regular season finale on national TV, the defense held NC State (seeking revenge for that 1967 upset in Beaver Stadium of the 3rd-ranked Wolfpack) to a total offense of 50 yards.

Missouri won the Big 8 and stomped “mighty” Michigan something like 52-17 (can’t recall exact score). Penn State shut the Tigers down to a mere FG following a long punt return in the Orange Bowl.

And lost with all that defense is a backfield that boasted Franco Harris, Charlie Pittman, and Lyell Mitchell.

 

[PAgeologist]

It's a bit early for the comparison to the 94 team, but this team has the talent potential to match. Especially considering many of the starters are underclassmen. If everyone eligible comes back, next year's offense will be scary good.