Why the double standard? (Joe vs. CJF in big games)

[Lion_Backer]

Everybody is talking about 1-13 against top-5 teams.

James is a good guy who does things the right way. Wins far more games than he loses. But he can't win the big games. As such, Penn State deserves better and it's time to move on.

That's the narrative.

And yet once we joined the Big Ten in 1993, Joe went 2-14 against top-5 teams -- the wins being @ Michigan in 1994 (a team that finished 8-4) and Arizona in 1999 (a team that went 6-6).

Joe lost MANY games to Ohio State. And yet he didn't have to face the Buckeyes of the Urban Meyer/Ryan Day era -- Buckeye teams more loaded than they were under Tressel.

So why the double standard?

NittanyIllinois, I'm curious the timeframe that you attended PSU.

I'm guessing that you experienced the older Joe. For us who grew up in the 70's and attended PSU in the 80's, he was considered respected like Smart, Saban and Urban are today.

CJF needed the resume building win yesterday to take to the recruits that are PSU/OSU tossups. We all, including myself, continue to think of the magnitude of this game in pre 12 team playoff format. A lot of football is still to be played. And everything that this team has to play for is still attainable.

No one knows what anyone's roster is going to look like by playoff time.

 

[Hotshoe]

Well put.

Tragically, Joe stayed well past the point where he should have walked away in glory, but he was a legendary sports figure and even with the down years compiled an overall coaching record that will never be equaled in this current era of football in terms of tenure, win totals, unbeaten teams, major bowl wins and all the rest.

There is no comparison between him and Franklin...and never will be.

That said, yes, it's true that some of today's Franklin-bashers have forgetful memories about inconvenient parts of Joe's record, which for the most part came into play after the fateful mistake of joining the Big-10, a conference that hated us and was determined to put us in our place from the beginning.

Most of these folks have hated Franklin since day one. They also don't give him any credit for having to rebuild the program and facilities. In fact, they expected Franklin to win without upgrades, while other programs were 20 years ahead of us. They literally said, win first, then we'll see about upgrades. In other words, they hate him no matter what.

 

[WaffleShopper]

1973:
20-6 @ 7-4 Stan
39-0 @ 4-7 Navy
27-8 vs 0-11 Iowa
19-9 @ 6-4 AFA
54-3 vs 0-11 Army
49-6 @ 2-11 Syr
62-14 vs 6-5 WVU
42-22 @ 8-4 MD
35-29 vs 9-3 NCU
49-20 vs 5-5 Ohio
35-13 vs 6-5-1 Pitt
16-9 N 9-3 LSU

Does look like a better resume than your typical #5 team.

Only 1 ranked team in the regular season, looks like a Notre Dame schedule. Interesting that the undefeated #6 team played a 2-loss #13 team in a bowl game. We could have put 100 on LSU and still would not have received any first place votes.

 

[Springcity]

Joe had 2 Nattys.

The guy is right . Can't compare Paterno prior to Big ten

 

[MacNit2.0]

Part of Franklin's problem is he isn't as good as Joe was at his best, and that is the standard. Not what Joe did when he was past 70.

He is not even in the same universe of when Joe was at his best (over 3 decades) or even as good after Joe’s rebound from the dark years.

 

[MacNit2.0]

The guy is right . Can't compare Paterno prior to Big ten

Yes, our schedule was tougher prior to Big10.

 

[LandoComando]

Yes, our schedule was tougher prior to Big10.

Ehhh

 

[MacNit2.0]

Most of these folks have hated Franklin since day one. They also don't give him any credit for having to rebuild the program and facilities. In fact, they expected Franklin to win without upgrades, while other programs were 20 years ahead of us. They literally said, win first, then we'll see about upgrades. In other words, they hate him no matter what.

How do you know what other people feel?

 

[IANit]

NittanyIllinois, I'm curious the timeframe that you attended PSU.

I'm guessing that you experienced the older Joe. For us who grew up in the 70's and attended PSU in the 80's, he was considered respected like Smart, Saban and Urban are today.

CJF needed the resume building win yesterday to take to the recruits that are PSU/OSU tossups. We all, including myself, continue to think of the magnitude of this game in pre 12 team playoff format. A lot of football is still to be played. And everything that this team has to play for is still attainable.

No one knows what anyone's roster is going to look like by playoff time.

Another thing about Franklin, and this isn't me, but there are people in the media who absolutely hate him and say he is everything wrong with college football. I don't know if it's because of how he talks or what. I don't have a problem with him as a person even if I get frustrated by losing, but I think he's seen as a used car salesman by some. They love a chance to bring him down a peg. Joe was seen much more favorably. He lost but then won the big ones in his day, so when he fell off a bit people weren't as critical and said he'd earned the right to stay. That probably turned out to be a bad thing.

 

[heckmans]

Everybody is talking about 1-13 against top-5 teams.

James is a good guy who does things the right way. Wins far more games than he loses. But he can't win the big games. As such, Penn State deserves better and it's time to move on.

That's the narrative.

And yet once we joined the Big Ten in 1993, Joe went 2-14 against top-5 teams -- the wins being @ Michigan in 1994 (a team that finished 8-4) and Arizona in 1999 (a team that went 6-6).

Joe lost MANY games to Ohio State. And yet he didn't have to face the Buckeyes of the Urban Meyer/Ryan Day era -- Buckeye teams more loaded than they were under Tressel.

So why the double standard?

Joe gets slack for many 3 loss season because he had a undefeated season in pretty much every decade of his career, 2 MNCs and one stolen in '94. Joe was also paid peanuts relative to his peers (1M at the end) and paid for a library.

JFs current ceiling is 2 losses and regularly pretends he might leave to get a raise. His salary is something like $8M.

Don't think it's a double standard at all. Do you agree?

 

[bvillebaron]

Joe had 2 Nattys.

And it took him how many years to win the first one?

 

[bvillebaron]

Another thing about Franklin, and this isn't me, but there are people in the media who absolutely hate him and say he is everything wrong with college football. I don't know if it's because of how he talks or what. I don't have a problem with him as a person even if I get frustrated by losing, but I think he's seen as a used car salesman by some. They love a chance to bring him down a peg. Joe was seen much more favorably. He lost but then won the big ones in his day, so when he fell off a bit people weren't as critical and said he'd earned the right to stay. That probably turned out to be a bad thing.

Really? You must have missed the media’s treatment of Joe after the Sandusky arrest. Many in the media DESPISED Paterno and thought he was sanctimonious.

 

[bvillebaron]

Joe gets slack for many 3 loss season because he had a undefeated season in pretty much every decade of his career, 2 MNCs and one stolen in '94. Joe was also paid peanuts relative to his peers (1M at the end) and paid for a library.

JFs current ceiling is 2 losses and regularly pretends he might leave to get a raise. His salary is something like $8M.

Don't think it's a double standard at all. Do you agree?

Uh yes. This isn’t the 80s. Paterno coached until 2011 and his last Natty was 1986 (although Penn State was robbed in 1994)

 

[mgkpsu]

Franklin did himself a disservice by asking for (demanding?) his most recent raise.

 

[IANit]

Really? You must have missed the media’s treatment of Joe after the Sandusky arrest. Many in the media DESPISED Paterno and thought he was sanctimonious.

I'm talking the way he was seen mid-career. Some may have seen him as sanctimonious in the 80s and 90s, but most respected him. But once he stayed on and there were some dark years and thus questions about his age the cranky old man version of Joe is what a lot of the media saw.

 

[bvillebaron]

And it took him how many years to win the first one?

I’ll answer the question for you: 17.

 

[80lion]

Yes, but Joe had many undefeated seasons prior to the MNC. He likely would have had at least one if permitted to play for the MNC.

 

[PSUPride1]

Part of Franklin's problem is he isn't as good as Joe was at his best, and that is the standard. Not what Joe did when he was past 70.

Exactly. In Joe's first twenty years he had four undefeated seasons and played in four national title games. Joe stayed too long and that hurt his record but for those of us around during Joe's tenure know he was considered the best coach in the country. And he could beat teams with superior talent such as Miami.

 

[NoBareFeet]

Because Joe is the best coach of all time, and Franklin isn't.

 

[NoBareFeet]

Also, once a playoff was created anything less than that became a failure. Joe didn't have that. Joe also sold people on doing the right thing which doesn't matter in this NIL/portal era. You must contend.

Everything you said here is wrong.

 

[LandoComando]

Everything you said here is wrong.

This is wrong--what I said is correct

 

[Cowbell Man]

Everything you said here is wrong.

Joe was in favor of paying players something which the NCAA would not allow. Joe may well have embraced today’s mess….no way to know.

Joe was in favor of a playoff and frankly, if we had a playoff 25 years ago, we wouldn’t have this ridiculous conference realignment. Further I would like to have been a fly on the wall when 5 conference heads went into the room to create a 4 team invitational…guaranteeing a screwing of at least one conference every year. That was a monumental mistake. Just ask the PAC 12.