Rules question

[Obliviax]

Bills snap the ball early to catch a player on the field but the left tackle jumped early. They called offsetting penalties; 12 players on browns and illegal shift on the bills.

How can that be? The fact that the LT left before the snap the play is dead there. You could simply snap the ball whenever you want, when the D is shifting out players, to get a free timeout.

 

[LandoComando]

Bills snap the ball early to catch a player on the field but the left tackle jumped early. They called offsetting penalties; 12 players on browns and illegal shift on the bills.

How can that be? The fact that the LT left before the snap the play is dead there. You could simply snap the ball whenever you want, when the D is shifting out players, to get a free timeout.

Didn't they call it illegal formation not a false start?
If they said false start you are 100% correct that it should have been blown dead

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Bills snap the ball early to catch a player on the field but the left tackle jumped early. They called offsetting penalties; 12 players on browns and illegal shift on the bills.

How can that be? The fact that the LT left before the snap the play is dead there. You could simply snap the ball whenever you want, when the D is shifting out players, to get a free timeout.

No, "Illegal Participation" (too many on field) is a "live ball" penalty, so the ball has to be snapped while too may defenders on field to draw the penalty. Illegal Shift is also a live ball penalty - false start is a dead-ball penalty (i.e., movement before snap). If illegal shift called - offsetting. If False Start called should only be on Offense as no snap actually occurred.

 

[psualt]

Bills snap the ball early to catch a player on the field but the left tackle jumped early. They called offsetting penalties; 12 players on browns and illegal shift on the bills.

How can that be? The fact that the LT left before the snap the play is dead there. You could simply snap the ball whenever you want, when the D is shifting out players, to get a free timeout.

I guess my question would be what purpose would this serve? Hypothetically it stops the clock but wouldn’t it just be better to get set and get a free play?

 

[Obliviax]

I guess my question would be what purpose would this serve? Hypothetically it stops the clock but wouldn’t it just be better to get set and get a free play?

If you are conserving clock, why not? In the last two minutes a great way to steal a TO. But regardless, a player leaving early would seem to obviate a player not getting off the field. The players leaving early didn’t allow the other players enough time to get off the field.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

No, "Illegal Participation" (too many on field) is a "live ball" penalty, so the ball has to be snapped while too may defenders on field to draw the penalty. Illegal Shift is also a live ball penalty - false start is a dead-ball penalty (i.e., movement before snap). If illegal shift called - offsetting. If False Start called should only be on Offense as no snap actually occurred.

If the offense breaks the huddle with 12 men, it's an immediate "dead ball" penalty - no snap required. But again, snap required with too many on field for penalty on defense.

 

[Obliviax]

If the offense breaks the huddle with 12 men, it's an immediate "dead ball" penalty - no snap required. But again, snap required with too many on field for penalty on defense.

It was the defender running off the field but didn’t make it in time. So my point is if the offense didn’t set properly when the ball was snapped, how can the defense get called for too many on the field? They didn’t properly snap the ball? The ball was never really snapped

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

It was the defender running off the field but didn’t make it in time. So my point is if the offense didn’t set properly when the ball was snapped, how can the defense get called for too many on the field? They didn’t properly snap the ball? The ball was never really snapped

Again, it depends on whether Illegal Motion, Illegal Formation, Illegal Shift or False Start was called. The first 3 are "live ball" penalty, the last is a dead-ball penalty. What penalty was announced by the Referee?

 

[Obliviax]

Again, it depends on whether Illegal Motion, Illegal Formation, Illegal Shift or False Start was called. The first 3 are "live ball" penalty, the last is a dead-ball penalty. What penalty was announced by the Referee?

Illegal shift. But my point is, if the offense didn’t set properly, they didn’t snap the ball legally. They said the left tackle didn’t set so how can a player from the D be in the field when the offense didn’t set properly?

 

[LandoComando]

Illegal shift. But my point is, if the offense didn’t set properly, they didn’t snap the ball legally. They said the left tackle didn’t set so how can a player from the D be in the field when the offense didn’t set properly?

Because it's not a dead ball penalty...the snap still occurred--the play isn't blown dead.
I understand what you're getting at but it doesn't benefit either team so it's not a big deal. If it was deemed a false start then it would only be on the offense but an illegal formation then both apply by rule.

 

[Obliviax]

Because it's not a dead ball penalty...the snap still occurred--the play isn't blown dead.
I understand what you're getting at but it doesn't benefit either team so it's not a big deal. If it was deemed a false start then it would only be on the offense but an illegal formation then both apply by rule.

But it was an illegal snap! I know what the rule is but the rule is wrong. If you can illegally snap it’s wrong to penalize the other team because you snapped the ball too early

 

[LandoComando]

But it was an illegal snap! I know what the rule is but the rule is wrong. If you can illegally snap it’s wrong to penalize the other team because you snapped the ball too early

They aren't being penalized. Neither team is penalized
Again I get your logic and I won't disagree they should reconsider the rule but it was the right call as it is and there's logic behind how it is now.
I also think the term "illegal snap" is being used incorrectly here.

 

[Obliviax]

They aren't being penalized. Neither team is penalized
Again I get your logic and I won't disagree they should reconsider the rule but it was the right call as it is and there's logic behind how it is now.
I also think the term "illegal snap" is being used incorrectly here.

Yes they were penalized. The illegal shift was offset by too many men on the field so no penalty.


It’s like saying a an offensive lineman jumped which caused the defender to enter the neutral zone, penalties offset, replay the downs

 

[LandoComando]

Yes they were penalized. The illegal shift was offset by too many men on the field so no penalty.


It’s like saying a an offensive lineman jumped which caused the defender to enter the neutral zone, penalties offset, replay the downs

It's not though. Having an illegal formation (which was the call correct?) doesn't nullify they had 12 men on the field.
Again, I'm all for them reviewing the rule and adapting it but I don't have any issue with the call either. It was a wash.

 

[Obliviax]

It's not though. Having an illegal formation (which was the call correct?) doesn't nullify they had 12 men on the field.
Again, I'm all for them reviewing the rule and adapting it but I don't have any issue with the call either. It was a wash.

Illegal shift. The premature shift, and the player not being set, directly contributed to the defender not getting off the field. They snapped the ball too soon. Had they taken the time to set, the defender would have been off the field ( he was one step in the field running off)

 

[LandoComando]

Illegal shift. The premature shift, and the player not being set, directly contributed to the defender not getting off the field. They snapped the ball too soon. Had they taken the time to set, the defender would have been off the field ( he was one step in the field running off)

What about a situation when they wouldn't have gotten the guy off?